Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Kinematics]

Nothing said about the slavery in the discussion with the Queen? Disappointed.

Book girl shows up (green hair with braids), being treated poorly by mustache knight (part of Itsuki's team; name: Mald). Snippet almost felt out of place in the midst of what else was going on, but I suppose she'll be relevant in the final arc, so they're doing a quick intro now.

Explanation of where Melty was due to Filo asking and Raphtalia explaining, when both of them should have known due to being present when Melty went off with the knights, so was put in solely for expository purposes, and feels a bit cheap. Also, pan shots of the crowds occasionally had several duplicate characters. Looked a bit silly, but I suppose this was an episode where it was fairly easy to save budget, since it was primarily dialog.

Itsuki's explanation to Motoyasu for Mein's absence makes me feel like Itsuki is very familiar with the types of shiny candies that can distract the spear hero. It's almost as if Ren and Itsuki have had to spend the last week or so babysitting Motoyasu, and have gotten used to the delicate touch needed to handle the nutjob.

Mr. Grey-hair, who came to collect the heroes, is one of the two assistants to the king during the opening events, and during the episode 4 duel. He's very much part of the problem, and it aggravates me that he's apparently slipping from one boss to another without any issue.

Oooooooh.... Now this is interesting. We see a first person viewpoint from someone other than the four heroes: the Queen. And the queen has her own HUD, with the text written in the Melromarc script (which I'll see about translating later, but don't expect to be different than their names). It doesn't give her level, though.



And... wow. Honestly, that would have been a great episode to end the season on, but we've still got a few more to go.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

The way I see it stripping her of everything and leaving her with a shameful name wouldn't mean much to Naofumi if she was just locked away in a cell. Letting her go around town being judged and derided by the peasants that she is no better than now, much like how he had to do, is a more fitting punishment in Naofumi's eyes.

Except it means that she's free to claw her way back up in the same manner he did, whereas killing her gets rid of the problem for good. At the very least put them in a cell somewhere.

[Kinematics]

Translation of the Queen's HUD:

Queen's name: Mirelia Q Melromarc

Mein's name: Mein Sopha

Note: She pronounced her name "Mein Sophia" in the first episode, so there was likely a typo in her name here.

Font translation site, if anyone is interested. The person who made it didn't find Q in the text they used early in the series to generate the transliteration, and haven't updated based on this episode, so that letter doesn't have a translated form yet.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Twi

Except it means that she's free to claw her way back up in the same manner he did, whereas killing her gets rid of the problem for good. At the very least put them in a cell somewhere.

While I agree that a cell would be appropriate, I'm rather doubtful that she'd be able to pull her way back to high standing. Up to now she's wielded her status as princess very clumsily, just sort of throwing lines around and making up declarations as they suited her. Now that she's been completely stripped of status it'll be really hard for her to do anything I suspect.

[blakstealth]

Ah, that was the catharsis I needed. Fuckin Myne- I mean Bitch getting electrocuted with that crest was a sight to behold. As much as I want those two goons gone from the show forever, I'll have to agree that death is too easy for them. I think it's better to have them live their lives as disgraced and punished snakes. The Queen didn't explain what the history was with the previous Shield hero,though. I guess that will go unresolved for now.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Well Nafoumi claws his way back up from nothing and a ruined reputation. He himself proved it's possible. Leaving a loose end like this feels dangerous......

Originally Posted by Twi

Except it means that she's free to claw her way back up in the same manner he did, whereas killing her gets rid of the problem for good. At the very least put them in a cell somewhere.

Myne doesn't strike me as someone with Naofumi's mental fortitude and determination to be able to actually rise up like he did. And she fell even harder then he did.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Myne doesn't strike me as someone with Naofumi's mental fortitude and determination to be able to actually rise up like he did. And she fell even harder then he did.

People can rise above their limits when they have a strong motive. And she has one. Before, she had no personal reason to make Naofumi's life hell, yet she tried her hardest too. Now that he's humiliated her like that? You can bet she'll do anything to get back at him. The same goes for Trash.

[The Green One]

Now that Trash and Bitch have had everything stripped from them, what more do they have to lose? One finds restraint loses meaning if there are no longer consequences to fear.

Plus there's also the humiliation of having to beg and plead to your mortal enemy to be spared. Only to get your very identity striped away and replaced with a degrading name.

[Lukes YGO & WS on YT]

Regardless of what the queen was actually planning I do agree with Naofumi, let those 2 live with that shame for the rest of their lives.

I'm going to miss Melty travelling with them, her magic was really handy plus the more the merrier.

Hopefully now those 3 can at least get the level up and class upgrades.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kanon

People can rise above their limits when they have a strong motive. And she has one. Before, she had no personal reason to make Naofumi's life hell, yet she tried her hardest too. Now that he's humiliated her like that? You can bet she'll do anything to get back at him. The same goes for Trash.

I mean, I don't disagree, but I think Myne is probably lacking in the strong will and fortitude of character that it takes to have to rise above one's limits.

She could never have done what Naofumi did, for instance.

Heck, I'd more buy it out of the king since he seemed to have more genuine and strong conviction in his hatred of Naofumi but he's too old to be a threat on his own.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the queen keeps closer watch on both moving forward to make sure they don't act up again.

[Kinematics]

Oh, and speaking of the (former) king's family, and his grudge against the former Shield Hero, that gives us a little bit better idea of how long apart these calamities happen.

I would estimate the king to be between 50 and 60 years old. His hair is fully grey, which is rare below 40, and common by 60. While he's clearly old, he doesn't look aged in the post-60 sense. And he married into royalty, which means it's not unlikely that he was older than the queen when they married.

50 seems the easiest baseline to work from. That means he was around 30 when Mein was born, and thus he married the queen not too long before that. He might be as old as 60, but various factors suggest that that's unlikely (eg: his age when marrying and when Malty was born, the strength of his grudge, his physical fitness, etc).

Meanwhile, his trauma with the shield hero involved his former family. I would guess that this happened when he was somewhere between 10 and 20. Below 10 and it's harder to remember that trauma. Above 20, and the trauma is less likely to hit as hard, and be a life-long grudge.

So, baseline puts the previous Shield Hero at 30-40 years ago, with maybe a 5 year margin of error. That puts the overall time at 25-45 years ago.

So my vague conclusion is that the Waves happen every couple generations (~40 years).

[blakstealth]

I would've also loved an apology from the heroes, especially from Motoyasu. But nah, nothing like that happened. Now they get to celebrate while Naofumi doesn't attend his own party.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

I would've also loved an apology from the heroes, especially from Motoyasu. But nah, nothing like that happened. Now they get to celebrate while Naofumi doesn't attend his own party.

Yeah, I feel like after Motoyasu found out Myne had lied about Naofumi assaulting her, it was time for him to finally realize how much he screwed up and actually apologize.

Same for the other Heroes even if they never antagonized Naofumi as much as Motoyasu did.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I mean, I don't disagree, but I think Myne is probably lacking in the strong will and fortitude of character that it takes to have to rise above one's limits.

She could never have done what Naofumi did, for instance.

Heck, I'd more buy it out of the king since he seemed to have more genuine and strong conviction in his hatred of Naofumi but he's too old to be a threat on his own.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the queen keeps closer watch on both moving forward to make sure they don't act up again.

Not to mention that she has pretty much no support whatsoever. Even at his lowest, Naofumi at least had a few individuals willing to support him and the Queen was a path to potentially reveal the truth. Myne really has no else as there is no higher up that will support her and the other countries will no doubt know the role she played in screwing them out of protection from the waves by now.

[SilverGlavenus]

The queen said she was going to offer her life to spare the others'. How exactly was she going to do that ?? It contradicts what she fought for, and it's not like she can order the execution and then tell the executioner to stop.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus

The queen said she was going to offer her life to spare the others'. How exactly was she going to do that ?? It contradicts what she fought for, and it's not like she can order the execution and then tell the executioner to stop.

Families create contradictions. Ordering her husband and daughter to be executed would be too much for her. Had Naofumi refused her then she would have likely taken her own life in regret after it was done. Her loss may have put Naofumi in a bad position again.

That aside this episode felt very satisfying to me. Seeing Bitch forced to tell the truth, and just the sheer amount of attempted lies in the process, and later begging for her life had me laughing so much. lol

[Frontier]

I guess we saw in full force how shallow Motoyasu's talk of "friendship" really is. After Myne's lies are revealed he doesn't lift a finger to help her when she's on the chopping block.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Families create contradictions. Ordering her husband and daughter to be executed would be too much for her. Had Naofumi refused her then she would have likely taken her own life in regret after it was done. Her loss may have put Naofumi in a bad position again.

And he cared about Melty enough to not want her to have to lose her family.

[PreSage]

All I can say is...that was one satisfying episode. Justice for Naofumi. Now we just have the other 3 heroes to "enlighten".

[thundrakkon]

So Myne's reason for screwing over Naofumi was because she supported her father's wishes to hate on the Shield Hero? It's just that her methods are rotten because she is a rotten person herself?

[relentlessflame]

I was quite concerned about how this episode was going to play out (from what various people had been hinting at), but in the end it went better than I expected.

I could accept the way they framed Naofumi's "compromise." If he was going to be able to justify a stay of execution in front of everyone, he probably thought he needed an excuse. If he had just said "no, spare their lives" by itself, it may have been noble, but it could also have seemed like he was downplaying their crimes. As the show carefully and repeatedly pointed out, he wasn't actually the only one they wronged by any means. (Their crimes had major global political consequences, not to mention the massive loss of life.) Even if he could get away feeling magnanimous, others may not feel that justice had been done.

This was basically a symbolic gesture to help ensure they'd have to live with the stigma of what they'd done forever going forward, and something no one present would forget. Even though it was completely juvenile and stupid (he got to play the "smug self-righteous asshole" role that he so clearly loves again), it was something the queen could use as a way out of her quandary (which is why she immediately played along). Of course one would like a less "angsty teenager" solution here, but beggars can't be choosers; in the end it's very "Naofumi," and as one most directly/personally wronged, others could probably live with his call.

So, I appreciated the fact that they didn't frame Naofumi calling them those names as something that was purely cathartic for him (his way of "getting back at them" for how he'd been "wronged," although there was probably a small measure of that), but as a way of doing the right thing towards those who would understand what he was really doing -- particularly, the queen, Melty, and Raphtalia. His narration at the end further reinforced this -- that protecting those he cares for is his reason to be the Shield Hero and is more important than revenge for past wrongs. For someone like Naofumi, that's an important realization and can serve as a guiding compass though all his insecurity. (The show had actually been building towards this message all along, which is why this episode did feel like a bit of a finale... despite more ahead.)

Anyway, it's not "all's well that ends well," but I at least understand what they were going for. I appreciate the care the anime staff took to carefully frame the episode, the moral quandary, and the reasons for Naofumi's actions.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

So Myne's reason for screwing over Naofumi was because she supported her father's wishes to hate on the Shield Hero? It's just that her methods are rotten because she is a rotten person herself?

I assume she thought that if she got in her father's and the church's favor (and got her sister out of the way), it might support her assent to power. Basically, as someone who had already lost the rightful position as heir, she was willing to use whatever twisted means were at her disposal to gain an advantage.

(Of course, she was a bit too wrapped up her delusions of power to realize the church would betray her. Why share power with a royal family so unstable and dysfunctional when you can just get rid of them and keep all the power to yourself? As someone who tried to kill her own sister, the thought really should have occurred to her, but I guess she was a bit too caught up in her own lying ways to consider the lies others would tell her.)