Kamen Rider General Discussion

[kiak666]

And just when I thought that Clotho may have a chance turn over a new leaf, Athropos along with her new master Gigist had to come and ruin it, warping the second Dark Sister into a monster (called Clotho-Rebis according to the production notes).

The production note for this episode also confirms that Gigist is the monster seen when the Gate of Darkness opened in episode 27.

Meanwhile, Legend will make his main series appearance next week.

[Tactics]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/H4QqJylIgm4

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The difference of budget looks real, so it's true that both Legend and Daybreak are Gotchard most popular Riders.

[GDB]

I mean, Legend is basically just Another Decade, and Decade is ultra popular.

[kiak666]

So, who wants to bet that Gigist's current form is a result of him possessing Geryon's body?

[Tactics]

I'm sure that will be the explanation but it felt weird to call it Geryon real body.

It seems too good to have someone capable of:

- Able to tank Chemies attack as long its not energy blast or causing explosion.
- Use three combination for Dread, which later attested by Minato and Clotho to be something very difficult to do.

Without any trick behind it. Especially after Fuga can afford clone to fight powered-up Lv. 10 Dragonalos as Wind and lore drop about how Homunculus is made with certain specs in mind so its impossible for them to become stronger without further modification.

I expected Geryon ditched his original body at some point, so what Gigist used is an empty vessel, allowing his comeback and Gigist to be defeated, hindered by homunculus specs.

[justavisitor]

lol, just realized this episode is just like dragon ball heroes XD (even the face mask of one of the sisters)

How long this new arc will be? I thought it can't be long, but seems like legend will stay for a bit at the preview?

[GDB]

Just watched the Gotchard/Geats movie... holy crap that was bad.

Spoiler:

Multiple times Geats used Magnum-Boost, and then a scene change later one of them is missing (boost missing at the beginning, magnum missing in the final fight). In general Ace and Hotarou both felt like they were written out of character.

The villain is given no context for how he: 1) was over 2000 years old, 2) remembered who Ace was, 3) knew Ace would reincarnate. Somehow he fought against one of Ace's reincarnations (since Ace killed himself shortly after his mother left when he was a child originally), and based on the timeline it'd have had to be his first reincarnation.

There's not really any explanation for how Rinne got her belt/ring, since it all happened in a dream world. Apparently we're supposed to assume that her dad actually had some manner of control over the dream world such that he could transfer physical objects through it?

The X Chemies whole thing being "can't be subjugated", and then 2-3 of them proceeded to be just that.

And finally, don't bring a damned loyal dead dog spirit into this, make Ace cry, and then not revive it as a companion for him now that he's a god. In fact, just stop making riders into gods, you clearly don't know how to consistently write their powers.

2/10 at best, honestly one of the worst KR movies I've watched.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

Just watched the Gotchard/Geats movie... holy crap that was bad.

Spoiler:

Multiple times Geats used Magnum-Boost, and then a scene change later one of them is missing (boost missing at the beginning, magnum missing in the final fight). In general Ace and Hotarou both felt like they were written out of character.

The villain is given no context for how he: 1) was over 2000 years old, 2) remembered who Ace was, 3) knew Ace would reincarnate. Somehow he fought against one of Ace's reincarnations (since Ace killed himself shortly after his mother left when he was a child originally), and based on the timeline it'd have had to be his first reincarnation.

There's not really any explanation for how Rinne got her belt/ring, since it all happened in a dream world. Apparently we're supposed to assume that her dad actually had some manner of control over the dream world such that he could transfer physical objects through it?

The X Chemies whole thing being "can't be subjugated", and then 2-3 of them proceeded to be just that.

And finally, don't bring a damned loyal dead dog spirit into this, make Ace cry, and then not revive it as a companion for him now that he's a god. In fact, just stop making riders into gods, you clearly don't know how to consistently write their powers.

2/10 at best, honestly one of the worst KR movies I've watched.

Thank you for saving me 90 minutes. I mistakenly thought this was the movie that introduced Legend.

By the way, can someone give me the rundown on Legend? I went to the wiki of course so I know his backstory but how he became Legend is vague and I don't get what his connection to Chemies is. Was he created just for Gotchard, or will he get his own show or other piece of media down the road? It's five years too early for a new anniversary Rider.

[GDB]

He has zero connection to chemies. He's Another Decade (essentially), who was inspired by Decade per a flashback. As far as we can tell, he's just a silly little thing for Gotchard, but also acts in a while like a real anniversary Rider since Revice kind of didn't really do that role too well.

Legend's intro is just a 2-parter from youtube (only in JP), though it is fansubbed from back in... January, I think?

[Dengar]

The last episode was so weird. The image quality was all fuzzy and the camera was constantly shaking. The writing was also very weird and different.

And I did see the webisodes, so the context isn't lost on me. Although to be fair, one can reasonably watch this episode even without having seen them.

That being said, this crossover is kind of dumb since Legend is not a "real" rider that people know about.

Originally Posted by GDB

In fact, just stop making riders into gods, you clearly don't know how to consistently write their powers.

I mean personally, I don't mind riders becoming gods. I just mind them coming back later for a movie or such. I know it's necessary for merchandising. I'm just saying that becoming gods and coming back are just two things that don't really go together.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Thank you for saving me 90 minutes. I mistakenly thought this was the movie that introduced Legend.

By the way, can someone give me the rundown on Legend? I went to the wiki of course so I know his backstory but how he became Legend is vague and I don't get what his connection to Chemies is. Was he created just for Gotchard, or will he get his own show or other piece of media down the road? It's five years too early for a new anniversary Rider.

Lore-wise:

He's someone from one of Gotchard AU.
So Gotchard have three timeline, base (series), Daybreak and Legend.
Legend world is timeline which Decade visit Gotchard world, inspired a child alchemist to collect Rider history and become Legend. Kajiki become his butler instead of living normal life and befriending Houtarou.

Show-wise:

He's Toei and Bandai effort to reset Decade.
Driving force behind it is not only because of how Decade handled not for long-term project (Zi-O exists and do same things) and difficulties to have legacy actors on demand but also opportunity provided by Masahiro Inoue (Tsukasa) who quitted his agency in 2022, making him less likely to reprise Decade in future.

His appearance in Gotchard is part of Toei plan to have new series MC promoted and connected to past series or side-stories.
Like how, in Sentai, King-ohger (aired before Gotchard) revealed to be from same world as Kyoryuger around episode 30, also currently airing Boonboomger will have Go-onger compete with them by checking on toys catalogue.

He's here to allow Zein (the white Rider who use Super One attack) time-travels, promoting Outsider.

(Writer for this episode is Outsider writer).

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

He has zero connection to chemies. He's Another Decade (essentially), who was inspired by Decade per a flashback. As far as we can tell, he's just a silly little thing for Gotchard, but also acts in a while like a real anniversary Rider since Revice kind of didn't really do that role too well.

Legend's intro is just a 2-parter from youtube (only in JP), though it is fansubbed from back in... January, I think?

His driver constantly shouts "Chemy Ride", so there has to be a connection. Tactics provided me with the answer.

I guess I missed when his special intro episode was released, I assume he was introduced in a movie. I'll look for it.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Lore-wise:

He's someone from one of Gotchard AU.
So Gotchard have three timeline, base (series), Daybreak and Legend.
Legend world is timeline which Decade visit Gotchard world, inspired a child alchemist to collect Rider history and become Legend. Kajiki become his butler instead of living normal life and befriending Houtarou.

Show-wise:

He's Toei and Bandai effort to reset Decade.
Driving force behind it is not only because of how Decade handled not for long-term project (Zi-O exists and do same things) and difficulties to have legacy actors on demand but also opportunity provided by Masahiro Inoue (Tsukasa) who quitted his agency in 2022, making him less likely to reprise Decade in future.

His appearance in Gotchard is part of Toei plan to have new series MC promoted and connected to past series or side-stories.
Like how, in Sentai, King-ohger (aired before Gotchard) revealed to be from same world as Kyoryuger around episode 30, also currently airing Boonboomger will have Go-onger compete with them by checking on toys catalogue.

He's here to allow Zein (the white Rider who use Super One attack) time-travels, promoting Outsider.

(Writer for this episode is Outsider writer).

Sounds like a clusterfuck. They could have simply just changed the actor for decade and handwaved it with a simple explanation. I've only seen him for like 5 minutes but Legend seems mighty annoying.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Sounds like a clusterfuck. They could have simply just changed the actor for decade and handwaved it with a simple explanation. I've only seen him for like 5 minutes but Legend seems mighty annoying.

They didn't want to because:

- Chemy cards sales is above expectation; it have better popularity than Decade cards (high quality artwork instead of portrait).
- Decade is popular among teenagers and adult, they expressed in one of producer letter, they wanted someone popular among children as well.
- Toei currently thinking of reintroduce Riders worldwide after Black Sun and Shin result, previously they have no confidence despite toys sales suggested buyers outside Japan are significant enough.

[Dengar]

I get that those things are popular, but Legend is such a stupid and pointless character. Like whoever wrote him (or whoever wrote this awful episode) just doesn't know how to write.

And I hope nobody gives me that "It's only a kids show" stuff. We know for a fact that writers can do better than this.

Even Zi-O was better than whatever the hell this is.

[Tactics]

Gotchard's production letter mentioned that, on planning, Legend involvement is 50:50, mainly to promote Rider Chemy.
If he failed to met target then he won't appear on series. He made it, that's why Legendary Legend allowed despite only have two episodes.

This episode is Toei and Bandai test run if Legend works on long run, by promoting Outsiders.
Of course, since Outsiders is TTFC-only (Toei Tokusatsu Fan Club, Toei premium service) instead of part of Gotchard main story, writing QC not went to Gotchard team; risking Kaguya / Legend in process as well.

FYI, audience with access to Outsiders already prepared for the worst when this episode writer announced.

[Dengar]

That... Explains... A lot...

God dammit.

[Dengar]

Man, why isn't this arc over yet? I don't want to see more of that self absorbed mary sue asshole.

[GDB]

He's fun and fine as long as he's only here for this crossover (which appears to be ending next episode). Fun homage, better anniversary character than Revice, and won't actually impact the story at all so it's just good fun.

Think of it like a crossover movie, but in episode form.

[Tactics]

Looking at how Boonboomger casually saying Children Day on it latest episode, while last week is first day of Golden Week.
They pretty much intended this two weeks are for Legend introduction, even at risk there will be 15 episodes left (and a movie) to cover the rest.

Legend / Kaguya is fun to have as 'your lone friend from different dimension'.

I like that he's immediately on bad mood because Houtarou prioritized Hopper and Liner over Kuuga and 555 that gave him new, cooler Rider kick.
The structure of the episode is similar to the series. First episode is to ensure the main advertising done, then we got characterization with minor advertisement (Legend cards works on Gotchard Driver and Build Genius hinted Evolt coming to Outsider), next will be the closure.

Once again they make sure to give close-up needed, after Geats logo during Legend transformation to tell his power covered Geats as well, now Zi-O stylized "Kamen" on Hundred mooks head.

[Dengar]

I mean I'm sorry, but the part where Legend was being a complete jerk, and at the end it was all "I'm sorry I called you a jerk back when you were being a jerk." just really pissed me off.

If he's "lonely" that's his own fault for being such a jerk. Also doesn't he have Butler?

Like I'm sorry, I'm not fond of the "Then why don't you eat cake?" attitude. Or Mary Sues. I hate Mary Sues.



And Revice was awesome. I don't understand why anybody would think this trash arc is any better than Revice.

And to say it's a good anniversary arc when it is worse than the entirety of Zi-O put together. At least that had a few actually likable characters. That show also didn't need to ruin a currently running show just to exist.