System for AMV Editting

[Dante of the Inferno]

So I'm starting my first AMV Editting Project in HD, and I want the setup to be optimized, short of buying/building an entire new computer.


I run on a Lenovo R61 Thinkpad with 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, NVidia Quadro NVS 140M discrete video card, Windows XP SP3, and an 80 GB 5400 RPM drive.


I know the drive sucks, but I have plenty of other HDD's that can go 7200 RPM, but I don't know if I should use a SSD as my OS drive and have a HDD as the drive for processing the video, have the reverse, or have a SSD for both.

The OS is 32-bit, so I don't know if going with Windows 7 64-bit will improve anything.

The program I am currently using is Cyberlink PowerDirector 8. I do notice that it's fantastically slow and crashes a bit, but I like that it can process mkv files. Are there any other programs out there that can do this?



Basically, I can upgrade the drives and the software, but I don't know which configuration is best. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[-KarumA-]

I've never used Cyberlink before, I used to have Premiere but now use Sony Vegas Pro using this method to put mkv in those editing programs: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=76034

However the bad thing about it was this: the temp files made to convert were huge, like 10 gb per file.
I'm afraid you would be left with converting, since most video edit programs are made to edit things captured from camera.

64 bit would make converting a lot quicker, though for just an AMV it doesn't take all that long, perhaps 20-30 minutes for HD if I would do it on mine.

I don't know what this SSD is that you mention? A data card thing?

Anyway even on my computer I am able to run off settings in HD for video editing, but remember the lower your stats the slower your rendering time will be.

May I ask for what purpose the video is?
Youtube, DVD?
Also do you do any other video work?
If not then why build a computer for purposed for just making AMV's if you set up a good and decent normal computer you would be able to do the same with the difference being a slightly longer render time in the end.
Why I am saying this, setting up a computer for video edit just for AMV's would imo be wasting money sort of. Now unless you start making 30-40 minute long documentaries in HD then it would be a different story but a 3-5 minute long AMV shouldn't even be a problem on a normal stat 'puter these days.

[Ledgem]

SSD = solid state drive, the newer hard drive technology. Read and write speeds blow standard hard drives away.

Video is processor-intensive - that's all. Getting a SSD won't help you, and to buy a SSD that'd be large enough to let you do many video projects comfortably would be prohibitively expensive. Upgrading your processor (which you can't really do with your system) would give you the greatest performance boost, likely followed by adding more RAM. Moving to a 64-bit operating system will give you a slight performance boost (assuming your video editor is also 64-bit) but nowhere near the boost you'd see from a processor and RAM upgrade.

If you're going to be processing video, you'll just need a lot of hard drive space. 1 TB drives are at a good buying point these days, and that'll hold you for a good, long while. Whether it's 5400 RPM or 7200 RPM shouldn't make a huge difference, unless you're planning to use it as the drive that houses your operating system as well. If you're not going to use it as a dedicated data/project drive, then make sure it's 7200 RPM.

I've used Adobe Premiere + After Effects and Apple's Final Cut Pro. You can probably do what you want with Cyberlink, but... can't say I've ever heard of it. Premiere is high-level and will definitely let you do what you want, just be prepared for the learning curve associated with it.

[-KarumA-]

I think it all depends on what OP wants to do, is it just AMV's or are you actually into the video edit business. I agree with what Ledgem says but OP is it just making AMV's?
Because you wouldn't need everything top notch to be able to do that

[Dante of the Inferno]

I'll just address the questions in the most relevant way.


I am simply trying to use a high-level editing program for AMV's, nothing business-oriented or feature-length. I happened to like PowerDirector 8 because I can use mkv files without worrying about any coding tricks to eliminate subtitles. If Adobe Premiere can do that, then I'll try it out.

It also sounds as though PowerDirector 8 functions differently than Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere. The projects in PowerDirector 8 are actually very small, only 1.5 MB at this point. I believe it's because the program only leaves place markers when recalling the source files. This allows me to expand and contract the size of the clip as I'm working with it, which is nice, but it does take a (VERY) long time to render and read the changes. From there, the only time it "makes" a video is when it comes time to produce the video (last step), and then it actually does the work. Do the other two programs actually make a copy of the clip while you're working with it? That seems to be the only reason why I'd need such a large drive for ONLY video work (the sum total of all the episodes that I'm working with uses around 20-25 GB).

The AMV's themselves are for convention contests, and I've seen what the high-level makers bring. Eventually, they'll make it online to YouTube, etc, but the actual downloads will be on a link (I can't stand even "HD" from streaming sites. I miss Stage 6.).

I'd heard Final Cut Pro is like the best there is, BUT you need Mac to run it. I haven't done anything with virtual machines before, but that may work. Anyone know if any of the high-level editing programs can actually use mkv's, or do I need to use those avs codes?

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

I am simply trying to use a high-level editing program for AMV's, nothing business-oriented or feature-length. I happened to like PowerDirector 8 because I can use mkv files without worrying about any coding tricks to eliminate subtitles. If Adobe Premiere can do that, then I'll try it out.

I don't think they support MKV's directly, but that's not an issue - just rip the video stream and throw it into a different file. You won't need to worry about the subtitles then.

If you're going to absolute quality (which would be beneficial to you for AMV competitions), you're best off ripping the anime yourself from DVD sources. I know what you're thinking - too expensive, DVD's aren't released yet, not possible - and I'd give you some advice there, but AnimeSuki's rules probably prohibit it.

Either way, don't be too concerned with working with MKV's, that's a minor issue that shouldn't influence what program you work with.

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

It also sounds as though PowerDirector 8 functions differently than Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere. The projects in PowerDirector 8 are actually very small, only 1.5 MB at this point. I believe it's because the program only leaves place markers when recalling the source files. This allows me to expand and contract the size of the clip as I'm working with it, which is nice, but it does take a (VERY) long time to render and read the changes. From there, the only time it "makes" a video is when it comes time to produce the video (last step), and then it actually does the work. Do the other two programs actually make a copy of the clip while you're working with it? That seems to be the only reason why I'd need such a large drive for ONLY video work (the sum total of all the episodes that I'm working with uses around 20-25 GB).

Based on the size of my Premiere project files, I think it works the same way. Final Cut Pro was also the same. I think that's pretty standard. You're going to take a hit on file space because your video source generally needs to be uncompressed before you begin editing it. Not totally uncompressed, but you're not going to be doing editing with a H.264-source file.

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

I'd heard Final Cut Pro is like the best there is, BUT you need Mac to run it. I haven't done anything with virtual machines before, but that may work. Anyone know if any of the high-level editing programs can actually use mkv's, or do I need to use those avs codes?

It's a toss-up between FCP and Avid, but I've never touched Avid. You can't run Mac OS X on a virtual machine unless you're already using a Mac, and either way you don't want to be doing video editing on a virtual machine. It'll just slow things down.

I think that Adobe Premiere + Adobe After Effects are the way to go for you. Don't be put off by the number of things you'll have to learn - both in terms of operating those programs and in terms of video codecs and such.

[-KarumA-]

True on windows After Effects + Premiere is the way to go, though I wonder how much OP knows of After Effects to actually be able to do something with it different from Premiere.
FCP doesn't support MKV files either, I worked with both FCP and Premiere and for a starter Premiere is better to start learning with. FCP imo is simply annoying to work with, so many limitations and so many long sideways to do things.

The guides posted here for MKV to MP4 I think would do nicely:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=47693

You don't have to follow all steps, however the next bad thing is that mp4 files cannot be imported into premiere either. However: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/931937#931937

Not sure which of those could perhaps also convert mkv.. not sure if they can

[Dante of the Inferno]

I've decided to try using a separate drive to run Windows 7 (x64). This allows me to take advantage of the full 4 GB of RAM. In order to prepare my mkv source files for use in Adobe Premiere, I am trying to extract the video files from the containers and output the MPEG4/AVC files.




Wow, I could swear that I've done this a dozen times already, but...


I'm using mkvextractgui + mkvwizard + mkvtoolnix (plus the obligatory library files) all in one folder, and I'm using the gui to try and extract the video files (it shows up in the list as MPEG4/AVC) from the mkv container.

Now, the gui does its thing, and says that the extraction is successful, but the output file comes out as file_Track1.h264 (litterally, a .h264 extension that is unreadable in MPC or VDub). I must be missing something really obvious. Any suggestions?


EDIT: I don't know if I need to convert the files straight to MP4 or if I can just extract them from the container. Are all video files originally MP4 before they are put into the mkv containers?

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

I'm using mkvextractgui + mkvwizard + mkvtoolnix (plus the obligatory library files) all in one folder, and I'm using the gui to try and extract the video files (it shows up in the list as MPEG4/AVC) from the mkv container.

Now, the gui does its thing, and says that the extraction is successful, but the output file comes out as file_Track1.h264 (litterally, a .h264 extension that is unreadable in MPC or VDub). I must be missing something really obvious. Any suggestions?

I'm not too familiar with those tools, but I'd guess that it's just giving you the pure video stream. You need to put it into a container format. AVI is a well-accepted container but it doesn't support H.264 nicely. Based on Karuma's advice, MP4 seems to be the new accepted standard. All of my video editing was generally done in AVI (XviD) or MOV (h.264). Actually, between MOV and MP4 there shouldn't be a huge difference, as far as what you're trying to do.

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

EDIT: I don't know if I need to convert the files straight to MP4 or if I can just extract them from the container. Are all video files originally MP4 before they are put into the mkv containers?

MP4 is a container format, itself. You want to know if the files are H.264. That depends on the fansub group. Also, note that there are different H.264 profiles... I'm not sure if Premiere can accommodate every single one (but I'd bet that it could do most of them). There's a chance that you'd have to re-encode if it couldn't.

[JEEB]

MP4box would be the thing you need for muxing to the MP4 container.

How to use: MP4Box -add inputFile:fps=<your original fps> destinationFile
Example usage: MP4box -add hurf.264:fps=23.98 durf.mp4

In case you want the audio there too, it should work with another -add between the output file name and the video's -add command. I'm not sure if mp4box could nowadays read framerates from the H.264 streams (in case it was given to the encoder as the correct one), so you might as well try pure -add file.264, and, if it gives you the default 25fps, switch to adding the fps yourself.

In case of variable frame rate content, you can always use tc2mp4 to "insert" timecodes into MP4. It's a feature of the container as such, but I have no idea how supported it is in commercial applications.