Aizen and Urahara experiments (Manga only, Anime at your own risk)

[The Stig]

Once again there wont be too many spoiler tags here so please leave if you dont want to read something you dont want to.

Now that thats out of the way, from past episodes it seems like Aizen takes the route of creating a hybrid from a hollow approach (hollow + shinigami = hybrid) and Urahara takes the opposite (shinigami + hollow = hybrid). I suppose theres only one example for Urahara, with Ichigo, but Aizen with his Arrancar and past hollow experiments (see Renji/Kira/Momo flashback and Rukia flashback). With the latest chapter I started thinking how did the Vizards get their hollow? Since Urahara did run multiple experiments, I'm thinking the Vizards could be nothing more than Uraharas failed experiments. There's nothing to support this just yet but with the route Aizen takes to create hybrids its not totally out of the question.

Also do we know exactly what hollow powers are yet? Ichigo has his Getsu Gatenshou, and his hollow has a similar attack thats just different colored.

[voldy18]

Well, Isshin said: "Vaizards, the criminal group of ex-shinigami that uses forbidden spells to acquire the powers of hollows. We never found their base of operations, nor uncovered their goals."

This doesn't sound like they are failed experiments.

And no, we don't really know what hollow powers are yet. But given that shinigami have a certain power limit, the acquiring of hollow powers probably just makes them get past that limit. I don't think it means gaining special techniques.

[Zu Ra]

No ,vizards are created naturally also like Ichi. Urahara creates Hōgyoku 崩玉-Orb of distortion because shinigami have a genkai in 4 arts Kido,Hoho,Zanjutsu and Hakuda so in his quest to create the ultimate shinigami the hyogoku is created.
But Urahara abandons the project because there is one fatal flaw the hollow side tries to take over, but the vizzards who meet Ichi tell him that they have mastered how to control hollow side.


JUST A THOUGHT : AIZEN,TOSEN,GIN will kick ass as Vizzards

[The Stig]

I don't think Ichigo achieved his shingami powers in a normal way, either time. If Isshin said that, which I think he did, that still leaves the possibility that Urahara assisted them. If they were exiled from SS because they were using the forbidden spells that would make them no different than Urahara, as of right now we have no reason to believe Urahara experimented on himself.

I thought Urahara abandoned the project because it was too danerous in general, as in making too powerful a being, gotta reread I guess.

Yea theres no doubt Aizen, Tousen and Gin will make really powerfu Vizzards. I wouldn't be suprised if they have already used it on themeselves because of Tousens power increase. It seems like Tousen could have beaten Grimjaw, or atleast equaled him. Grimjaw was is about Ichigo's equal, maybe alil more. But yea, if they haven't already used it I wouldn't be suprised if they eventually do.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by The Stig

. It seems like Tousen could have beaten Grimjaw, or atleast equaled him. Grimjaw was is about Ichigo's equal, maybe alil more. .

Actually Kido is much more powerful than Zanjutsu(Renji Vs Byakuya).I dont know how well versed Tosen is in Kido ,so I am saying this on the assumption that he does.
Almost all the Taichous are extremly well versed in Kido.Byakuya and Urahara excel and can be called maestros in Kido,then you may question that why the shinigamis had such a tough time beating arrancar when they had a Taichou Hitsugaya in their admist. The answer is, Kido is considered the most difficult of 4 arts and takes a very long time to master but once you master it you can render any Zanjutsu attack void while Toushiro being a young taichou hasnt mastered it yet.Ichigo only 2 plus points are Zanjutsu skills assisted by magnamous reatsu ,byakauya lost to him because of the hollow appearing byakuay almost kills Ichigo with his kido skills .
Grimm jaw despite belonging to the esprada legacy cant match up to a powerful Kido user .So to say Tosen maybe a vizzard at this stage is a little inappropriate due to lack of evidence.But if he has become a vizzard and I am wrong It would be so cool to see Aizen,Tosen,Gin as Vizzards Xd !! ( I gotta get back on Tosen sn then ^_^)

[JackRydden224]

Aizen wants to become a shinigami/hollow hybrid which is a vaizard right? From what we have seen so far vaizards needs to go through different processes in order to make full use of their power. An untrained vaizard would be like Ichigo in SS.

Now if Aizen becomes a vaizard do you guys think he'll have to go through a process like the rest of them? Or will he gain power right away?

[emessen]

he would use the hougyouku

[Illuyankas]

They might be similar to their hollow forms, so they'd know them instinctively anyway.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by JackRydden224

Now if Aizen becomes a vaizard do you guys think he'll have to go through a process like the rest of them? Or will he gain power right away?

There is no "If." Aizen has said quite clearly that he wants to become a Shigami/Hollow hybrid using the power of the hougyoku. Since the word for a shinigami that gains hollow powers is a Visored, then that is what he will become.

As for gaining his power right away,

Originally Posted by The Small One

Actually, It really looks like all those hougyoku-transformed hybrids immediately know how to use their newly gained power... IMHO it's a bit lame, but if the author decides so we can't do much about it.

Yup. That answers the question quite succinctly, but I want to comment to explain WHY everyone knows how to use their new powers.

It has already been made clear that every shinigami is taught how to use their powers by their own sword. The knowlege of how to use ones spiritual power is inherent in their own soul. Each person merely needs to learn to listen to their soul in order to know their power. I suspect Aizen will hear his inner voice extremely clearly.

[NoSanninWa]

I suspect that Ichigo is better at this then you suspect. After all, he's gotten on good terms with Zangetsu in only a few months. As for it taking other people longer, they aren't as good at listening to their soul slayers.

And the 10 year figure was a description of the amount of practice it takes to master the fine control over a bankai (because it is hard to have that much reiatsu filling a huge form), not the time it takes to gain a bankai. (Byakuya said this to Renji in episode 52.) I suspect that Ichigo is very lucky his bankai is small so that it didn't take 10 years to get good with it.

[Scep]

I think what his bankai helps him is that it just helps him get fast, and that dosent need much help, lol. Constant learning of the bankai up to 10 years could result in them getting new techniques. eg. zangetsu tenshou.

[hervprometheus]

I posted my views on ichigos bankai over in the bankai discussion thread. As for Aizen and co becomeing visored i think thats a certanty and i cant wait to see gin as a visored.

Spoiler for ichigos bankai:

In chapter 222 before ichigo masters his hollow side we see him spew out black reatsu from the tip of his blade and cut the other visored he is fighting *the afro dude*. I think this could be the next step in his bankai, being able to extend the cutting edge of his sword, and because the sword and reatsu is black could look like his sword itself is growing and moving, as if it was on fire that was pitchblack.

Some of this might be wishfull thinking but combined with hollow ichigos use of the bankai in chapter 220 (swinging it round by the chain, similar to the first time we saw hollow ichigo with zangetsu) i think ichigos bankai could shape up to be a lot more than just a speed boost. What i would REALLY like to see is the chain be able to lengthen at will like the cloth on zangetsu, that would just rock hard core.

[EDIT] moved my ideas for ichigos bankai here becuase its a manga thread. and ties in roughly with the flow of conversation above.

[Wolcik]

I thought that Gin was already Vizored, at least that was my wish untill I saw more Vizards...

Thousen could be Vizored now, but as he was cooperating with Aizen all the time, don't u think that it's possible that when he was hit once or twice by Kenpachi, he decided to avoid further injures in killing him, as he didn't know who will he have to fight when getting out of SS so it might be really good act

we still haven't seen bankai's of other Vizards so we don't know do they get other ones (like more concentrated on their bodies instead of flying and killing around)
as Vizard u do get a special power, cause I don't belive that putting on mask just makes u improve ur limits (but it makes sense) I think that it boost them

how hollows master their powers anyway? maybe they do it by instincts... or maybe as Arrancars they are told by their little Hollpactou what to do
does the stronger level above Menos isn't partialy without mask already? maybe Arrancar's shikai is just realeseing hollow's powers but modified
Hollows utill gaining their concous (modified to kill) act like animals

we don't know what Urahara did after creating Hyo, cause it was 100% active so he could create his own army in no time XD
I think that Vizards are connected to Urahara...

I can't wait to see sweet huge flashback of Urahara's and Isshin's