2019-02-02, 19:47 | Link #1 |
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Shield Hero - The Slave Seal (Anime-only; only mention it here)[No Spoilers]
Discussion thread for anything related to the slave seal. Be it positive, negative, analysis or off-handed comments mentioning it. This thread is for everyone, no spoilers of future events.
Please post anything related to the slave seal here. Be it people who don't mind it, or the people who have an issue with it, nobody wants to see topics or comments related to it in the episode threads or general discussion. Last edited by felix; 2019-02-03 at 11:39. |
2019-02-02, 20:17 | Link #2 | |||
sleepyhead
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Mostly replying since I don't like empty threads...
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You're right in that she's under a spell that restrains her with it on, but this clearly doesn't remove free thought. If she really wants to turn on him then I can actually think of a few ways she can kill him even with the magic on her. She's not the weak scared little girl anymore.
Planting the seed for distrust far out weights the "benefits" IMO. Other problems:
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2019-02-02, 21:07 | Link #3 | ||
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2019-02-02, 21:26 | Link #4 | |
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2019-02-03, 11:37 | Link #5 | |||
sleepyhead
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Of course understandably the way plot works in these stories, character personalities are pretty absolute when it comes to their alignment. Hence why I said it's merely a nitpick, since due to the laws of the narrative, it is actually more-or-less equivalent to permanent.
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2019-02-04, 09:54 | Link #6 |
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So this show isn't altogether promoting slavery as a good and happy state, but I'm not convinced that it's showing Naofumi the slaveowner as a bad guy. Anti-heroes who do bad things for good reasons or otherwise, like Eugene Onegin, Char Ansible or Slaine Troyard, should be contrasted with upright heroes, punished with failure, or painfully conscious of their sins, if a work wants to make any claim to morality. When Naofumi has saved the world, and is surrounded by more unlikable characters, the audience is clearly being driven to sympathise with him, and the credo that his personal feelings matter more than right and wrong. I don't sympathise with Naofumi's feelings one bit, his suffering is weaksauce compared to Slaine Troyard or Guts, and as a deconstruction of the single self-righteous heroes the other three guys are meant to send up, Naofumi is just more of the same with black clothes and piercings.
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2019-02-04, 10:28 | Link #7 |
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if
This work doesn't strike me as being moralistic. But if you insists - yeah, I can squint hard enough to see it echoing Matthew 7:1. I also noticed lack of self-reflection - even without squinting.
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2019-02-04, 12:09 | Link #8 | |
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By the way, Slaine is a joke (and so is everything else in that anime).
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2019-02-04, 12:38 | Link #9 | |
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I'm sorry but I love antiheroes. They just seem more real and their good sides shine brighter as a result of their darkness. A pigeon knowing how to fly is no big deal, and a man who has nothing to lose from altruism and plenty motivation to do good committing altruistic acts is just obvious, while a bitter man who can't afford to be gentle and has reason to hate showing love instead, even just a bit, is far more impressive, like watching a FISH that learned how to fly. Additionally, we're at what, episode 4? The hero's journey has just begun, and he's only had a few weeks to deal with his messed up new reality. Wounds take time to heal. Lastly, you want a hero feeling the weight of their sins? Well Naofumi certainly doesn't think he's a good guy. He made it clear in his talk with Raphtalia that he has a fairly low opinion of himself. He's sort of a paradox. He's made a villain out of himself, and he's simultaneously coming up with villainous excuses for committing dark acts and devising reasons why any good he does isn't really good. |
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2019-02-04, 15:01 | Link #10 | |
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BWTraveller, you make a good point that Naofumi thinks badly of himself. Self-depreciation does ring a little hollow when he looks likely to remain the world-saving hero surrounded by idiots, but I'll waive one point out of the three (1. Unrepentant (waived), 2. Jesus-kun, 3. Everyone else set up to make him look better). I like well presented anti-heroes as well, they're just far from ideal wish-fulfilment-Light-Novel protagonists, a genre I don't like at all to start off with.
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I found unrequited love and inter-planetary racism much more sympathetic, easily relatable burdens on Slaine Troyard than 'Shield-hero-ism' and that overblown false charges business. After years of abuse, Slaine starts his series as a nice guy; Naofumi seems to have gone right downhill after one bad day. Aldoah.Zero certainly isn't a good anime, but Slaine played the pitiful Byronic hero role far better than Naofumi, by sympathetic and meaningful emotion. Not by saving the day and getting the girl in a world principally designed to glorify him; that is, Naofumi. Last edited by Ghostfriendly; 2019-02-04 at 15:17. |
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2019-02-04, 20:19 | Link #11 | |||
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Additionally, Felix I believe had mentioned before that the curse shield may have had something to do with the extremity and suddenness of his wrath, and frankly a look back at the beginning shows his shield reacting during the first incident as well. It wasn't near as severe, just a momentary glint, but one could argue that perhaps along with the weight of his depressing state he may also be suffering from what could be thought of as a kind of possession. |
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2019-02-05, 12:15 | Link #12 | |
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2019-02-06, 15:56 | Link #13 |
sleepyhead
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Episode 5
"Let me just get the slave seal back on" ............not even surprised. Backtracking on character development and abandoning a clear opportunity for deep character development for cheap fetish fanservice is really REALLY stupid. I'll just leave it at that.
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2019-02-06, 16:25 | Link #15 |
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I, once again, strongly disagree with the whole "this is fanservice fetish fuel" stuff. Especially with the way she said it, which makes it sound like she just wants it as a symbol. Which makes sense. That slave seal has deep connections to some of the worst and best parts of her life. It's a symbol of the torture she endured, but it's also what allowed her to meet Naofumi, created enough trust in him that she could stay with him, and spurred her forward to break through her fears. It frankly makes some sense that it could have a lot of meaning to her besides just making her property. It's like a person finding out they can have a scar erased but choosing to keep it because of what it means to them.
And how is it "deep character development" for someone to do what everyone expects them to do? I'd say the bizarreness of her wanting it back creates a greater depth. Especially since it's clear just how little meaning it has now. |
2019-02-06, 16:45 | Link #16 | ||
sleepyhead
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It's very easy to see how it can be seen like that just as it's very easy for me to see your own view point of how it can be seen as something different. This entire argument hinges on literally me and others unseeing it.... it's just not possible! I'm sure it's equally impossible for you to unsee it as you do. What's there to even talk about? At most it can be said that the story could have done better moves to not suggest it so strongly, or done better moves to suggest the other angles strong-er. But need I remind you that by the end of the current episode (episode 5) he got, yet another slave, and it's tropes have been upgraded to naked loli in the span of one episode. You tell me, is the show making any effort whatsoever here for me not to see it like I do? or differentiate from other slave-master isekai or harems. Quote:
It was said that he turned all the checkboxes off. It doesn't matter. The power to turn them back on at any time is enough. Just as it was a problem before with all the ones that were off.
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2019-02-06, 17:13 | Link #17 | ||
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2019-02-06, 18:57 | Link #18 | ||
sleepyhead
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This may be just a problem of lifestyle. I'm very resistant to having my opinion pushed by artificial means, such as crowd wisdom or social pressure. It probably won't surprise you to know that I'm one of those people that doesn't use facebook (and I haven't since forever). For me to just change my opinion to align to some so called "more enjoyable" version others have, is not something I do. Make of that what you will. Quote:
Frankly they should have just made it so they draw the slave seal with non-magic paint. One more small observation, The very non-dramatic way she's made a slave again is also in line with how most slave-master isekai do it, ie. "slavery is just how day to day life works blah blah"
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2019-02-06, 19:24 | Link #19 | |
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It reminds me of a book series I read a long time ago. In it there was one country among the antagonistic side where women were considered property but they often had more say than their "owners" about their position or who "owned" them. At the end of the story a woman from that culture tracks down an ugly man and demands that he "buy" her for an absurd amount, after which she hands over a knife collection. Every woman in that culture carried knives around so no one, even their "owners" could do anything they didn't like, and giving these knives to a man is an expression of absolute trust and commitment, of confidence that she would never need to fear him or worry that he'd do something she didn't want. This is kind of the same thing: she's giving him complete power, yes, but she's completely confident he won't use it. If she were to do what you describe as the "expected" thing for a slave fantasy I'd think she'd express joy at being his slave or a desire to do what he wants or at least a degree of submission toward him, but she honestly comes across very clearly as very much her own person. And that's why these claims of "slave fantasy" don't work for me: in a slave fantasy the woman is not her own person. She's focused on her master and how to please him, but I haven't seen any of that at all. She's a legitimate person who chooses her own path in life. If, as in slave fantasies, she was that worshipful and adoring and eager to please then yes, her decision to have the seal replaced would make sense. But for an independent young woman like she's set up to be this is the most unexpected thing. If an excessively submissive and worshipful girl wanted to get the seal returned it'd be expected and say little about her. If Raphtalia as the independent woman she is chose to go on without the seal it wouldn't have said anything about her really. But for Raphtalia to claim the seal back says quite a bit, especially since it's clear even afterward that she belongs to no one, seal or no seal. |
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2019-02-07, 12:33 | Link #20 |
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Personally I agree w/ Felix. There are, in my opinion way too many master - slave relationship series already. By going this route, it's falling into a bit of an expected overall pattern and avoiding the potential for some different form of character development.
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