Muv-Luv Franchise - FanFiction Discussion

[Heir of the Void]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Just a question how would X-COM fair against the BETA?

Also how would the logistics of XCOM be? Since the US seems to be the only country left with a somewhat stable economy.

Planning on writing XCOM/Muv-luv crossover soon just need to get a few out of the way first.

Largely dependent on the answers to a few key questions.

First of all, are we talking Enemy Within (/Unknown/Long War) XCOM? I'll assume we are, but it's something to be certain about.

Second, is this XCOM from an XCOM universe during and/or following the Ethereal Invasion subsequently transported to XCOM, or an XCOM in the MLA universe, or what? From there, the big question becomes how much Ethereal tech they have, and how much they've adapted it.

The biggest problem XCOM would have is the difference in scales. XCOM is a relatively small organization (absurdly small, if we take the numbers in the game as literal) fighting roughly human-scale opponents. The fighting in Muv Luv takes place on the scale of Modern-industrial warfare, and the BETA are rather large.

I'd say that an XCOM solider in Titan Armor w/ Plasma Novagun (or Heavy Plasma, depending on your version) could easily win against a large number of anything Tank-class and down, considering that a man in Titan Armor is short enough to be almost immune to laser-class fire unless the Lux units were deployed much farther forward than normal.

The same Titan-armored solider or MEC trooper would be surprisingly resilient against the larger strains as well. A Grappler-class would have to walk over and hit them with a claw, and a Fort could use the stinger-thing, I guess, but neither would be considerably more efficient than they would be against a larger (and probably less durable, pound for pound) target, i.e. a TSF.

What the Titan-troops would have trouble with would be taking down the larger stuff. Getting deep penetration to destroy critical organs would be difficult with a plasma or laser weapon. LW Gauss guns would be more effective at a killing something on a Grappler/Destroyer scale, as low-mass/hypervelocity projectiles have crazy-high penetration, but then doing enough internal damage to get a kill becomes a significant question. Remember that the assault cannon 36mm chaingun fires a cannon shell that explodes after penetration, like a larger, less manly Bolter.

On the other hand, if this is an XCOM Project native to MLA, then things become more complicated.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Just a question how would X-COM fair against the BETA?

- Poorly. Given the way that X Com (from original iteration in the 90's the just before the most recent XCom2) is funded. X Com is a large organization but at the outset it's not army-sized. With proper funding and support it could be a G.I. Joe-like and sized organization but it all depends on your funding. At the start you have only one squad. And we all know what usually happens to a single new squad when BETA come around.

It's not that you can't write a Muv-Luv crossover fic with X Com in it, it's just that you have to make it fit. X Com troops function more like special operations or SWAT: small units designed to move in and neutralize a target or objective. They're not intended for wide-scale open warfare, which the BETA are more likely to engage in (EG the hordes upon hordes of CHOMP).

One way that could be interesting is if the XCom unit is actually from the EXTRA world/timeline as opposed to the UNLIMITED/ALTERNATIVE timeline. EG X Com encounters aliens, but it turns out those Aliens are actually the BETA from Unlimited/Alternative crossing dimensions into our 'normal' world. And the only way they can stop these random incursions is to find the Causality Conductor that's doing it.

...yep. Him.

[xeviouses]

In my fic XCOM is native to MLU(yes MLU, I have plans for the Causality Conductor...)

XCOM is activated the same time Japan decides to adapt the F-4s. Their job would be to find out why the BETA are attacking and any exploitable weaknesses(also for making surgical strikes against HIVEs but that would be for later)

I planned to make Titan armor as the pinnacle of XCOM tech, the maneuverability and firepower of a TSF while being human sized not to mention exclusive to XCOM operatives only.

Of course the problem of how they're gonna get the tech to that level is still there as XCOM mainly reverse-engineers whatever advanced alien tech they get their hands on.

[John117xCortana]

What sort of authority would this XCOM have?

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

What sort of authority would this XCOM have?

They don't have much as nearly all XCOM members have simulated ranks and since it is a secret organization nobody has to find out about them.

On the field, if they ever need to make contact/order regular troops they'll need permission from the respective council member first.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

They don't have much as nearly all XCOM members have simulated ranks and since it is a secret organization nobody has to find out about them.

On the field, if they ever need to make contact/order regular troops they'll need permission from the respective council member first.

.......they won't get the results they need or properly do their jobs with the latter condition. Especially when it's Muv Luv politicians.

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

.......they won't get the results they need or properly do their jobs with the latter condition. Especially when it's Muv Luv politicians.

That's only if those politicians knew XCOM existed in the first place...

[Heir of the Void]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

That's only if those politicians knew XCOM existed in the first place...

What if XCOM is actually an Inquisition, purging internal problems (who was running the show during the invasion of Japan? I think it was Joseph Stalin, but I'm not certain) before they endanger the war effort?

But in serious-mode, what does XCOM have in this universe that makes them stand out from all the other human forces?

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by Heir of the Void

What if XCOM is actually an Inquisition, purging internal problems (who was running the show during the invasion of Japan? I think it was Joseph Stalin, but I'm not certain) before they endanger the war effort?

But in serious-mode, what does XCOM have in this universe that makes them stand out from all the other human forces?

...Thanks for spoiling it, well partly...Let's just say XCOM is fighting a three-way war

As for the second part, XCOM has advanced tech; their method is reverse-engineering alien stuff after all.

[John117xCortana]

Who would be aware about XCOM's existence?

[Gentranum]

The scale of their weaponry wouldn't be too effective: sure, as someone pointed out it could deal with the larger strains, but that's only if they came in on a smaller scale: I have no doubts a squad can take down a Fort Class with a little difficulty, but Fort Classes are rarely ever alone, much like any BETA strain. As the saying goes, 'Where there's one, there's a hundred of them' except scale it up to the high thousands.

Their technology, however? Now that would be something else. The use of Elerium as a fuel source would REALLY expand operational times to ludicrous degrees. Alien Alloys have been stated to be light and incredibly strong, something that puts Super Carbon to shame. To think, if they turned their Firestorms into TSFs, they would be amazing.

Not to mention the scale of weaponry. Keep in mind they use Plasma/Laser based weapons. For how light they are with the alloys and Elerium, they are incredibly strong as they have a piercing effect that can be massed with proper weapons. Remember Heavy Laser or Heavy Plasma? Think of that as an auto cannon, except it could shoot through Tank and Grappler class weak points with ease. I suspect the hardened claws of a grappler or the tough shell of a Destroyer can still mitigate it, but the fact remains.

The only catch? Much like resources in Muvluv, it's to be very scarce. And since Elerium and Alien Alloys are not really natural to earth, it's clear you're only gonna get a few Ravens or Firestorm TSFs, if at all. You could, however, do XCOM as a sort of private military/experimental wing of a country, that fiddles with some 'alien' technology.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Heir of the Void

What if XCOM is actually an Inquisition

- "Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!"

Seriously thought, they're already doing that tack with the Stasi in Schwarzemarken based on real life, the Stasi were...pretty bad, and while it is possible to have a covert unit weeding out potential problem people, I don't think an XCom unit would be a proper answer. And yes, I have played Enemy Within and I know you can have special operatives infiltrating and investigating enemy plans. But this isn't wuite the same.

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- "Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!"

Seriously thought, they're already doing that tack with the Stasi in Schwarzemarken based on real life, the Stasi were...pretty bad, and while it is possible to have a covert unit weeding out potential problem people, I don't think an XCom unit would be a proper answer. And yes, I have played Enemy Within and I know you can have special operatives infiltrating and investigating enemy plans. But this isn't wuite the same.

Yeah, I've been consulting my muse on this and decided on dropping this particular aspect to focus more on the anti-alien part, XCOM already has enough problems as it is.

Quick question guys:
In regards to combat personnel, should I go with modern XCOM squad size 12 or 90s XCOM platoon? A squad is easier to write and characters fleshed out however, their will be some parts where suspension of disbelief is necessary that a small group can accomplish so much.

Or maybe I'll just compromise; platoon for BETA, squad for others....

XCOM as an organization isn't that large and is mostly R&D personnel plus guards, maintenance and pilots.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Yeah, I've been consulting my muse on this and decided on dropping this particular aspect to focus more on the anti-alien part, XCOM already has enough problems as it is.

Quick question guys:
In regards to combat personnel, should I go with modern XCOM squad size 12 or 90s XCOM platoon? A squad is easier to write and characters fleshed out however, their will be some parts where suspension of disbelief is necessary that a small group can accomplish so much.

Or maybe I'll just compromise; platoon for BETA, squad for others....

XCOM as an organization isn't that large and is mostly R&D personnel plus guards, maintenance and pilots.

The only way for an XCOM squad of 12 men to be able to beat what normally takes a TSF squadron or Wing to do is to equip them Starship Troopers style. With heavy use of clean nuke grenades.

[Heir of the Void]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

The only way for an XCOM squad of 12 men to be able to beat what normally takes a TSF squadron or Wing to do is to equip them Starship Troopers style. With heavy use of clean nuke grenades.

Remember, these are the same people who don't think to equip a Warthog squadron with nukes and basically just win.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by Heir of the Void

Remember, these are the same people who don't think to equip a Warthog squadron with nukes and basically just win.

They don't have enough of it. Not clean, don't have decent large scale radiation cleaners and because of politics.

But does XCOM have those sort of restrictions?

[Gentranum]

In the Alternative Setting, is it entirely possible to run a profitable Mercenary business? As in, freelance pilots using ragtag and outdated/highly customized TSFs with a cast of misfits from various countries? The money-grubbing, rough and tumble sort of group that steals Assault Cannon ammunition from depots and generally anything not nailed down or a TSF.

[Heir of the Void]

Originally Posted by Gentranum

In the Alternative Setting, is it entirely possible to run a profitable Mercenary business? As in, freelance pilots using ragtag and outdated/highly customized TSFs with a cast of misfits from various countries? The money-grubbing, rough and tumble sort of group that steals Assault Cannon ammunition from depots and generally anything not nailed down or a TSF.

We would need a better idea on the costs of and associated with TSFs to answer that question, and that information doesn't really exist.

If you wanted the mercanary lifestyle for a story, though, you could look at making a unit like the Flying Tigers. They were a unit of American air force volunteers flying for Nationalist China against the Japanese in the years leading up to WWII. They had actual government backing, but lived the mercenary fighter-pilot big-pimpin' lifestyle.

In Alternative, the Indoneasian theater might offer a suitable location for such a story; prehaps Singapore (which is intact, as of 2001) lacks its own resources/industry/population and hires foreigners to bolster their defenses.

[Gentranum]

Originally Posted by Heir of the Void

We would need a better idea on the costs of and associated with TSFs to answer that question, and that information doesn't really exist.

If you wanted the mercanary lifestyle for a story, though, you could look at making a unit like the Flying Tigers. They were a unit of American air force volunteers flying for Nationalist China against the Japanese in the years leading up to WWII. They had actual government backing, but lived the mercenary fighter-pilot big-pimpin' lifestyle.

In Alternative, the Indoneasian theater might offer a suitable location for such a story; prehaps Singapore (which is intact, as of 2001) lacks its own resources/industry/population and hires foreigners to bolster their defenses.

Is it plausible to price them around the same as their namesake Jets? I'm not entirely sure about TSFs since I haven't played the main game, but is their fuel source the same as say, jet fuel? Or is it special? Also, I'm not ammunitions guy, but are the calibers of Assault Cannon rounds the same for Soviets and say, NATO?

Ahh! Good source, definitely going to read it! My thoughts are mostly on the idea of 'life is cheap' sort of mercenaries. Basically misfits and unwanted people from various countries, some pretty much choosing to live that life rather than starve to death. I have been reading some TSFiA vignettes and hope to reproduce them.

Oh? Is the Indonesian theater portrayed in any manner? I've only really been keeping track of Schwarzesmarken and Total Eclipse the anime.

[Heir of the Void]

Originally Posted by Gentranum

Is it plausible to price them around the same as their namesake Jets?

I'm not sure if that pricing scheme would work. The Phantom would run a unit cost of ~17 million in 2016 monies, whereas the Raptor has a unit cost about ten times that (discounting R&D costs). The Raptor is Best TSF and probably worth the cost, though, so that's a decent workable figure.

If we call a Gen-1.5 unit (the upgraded Phantom models still in service) a cost of 1, then the second-generation units (F-15, Su-27, etc) would have a cost around 2.5-3, but are at least the same margin 'better'.

Continuing, a Gen-2.5 unit (F-15E Strike Eagle, Su-37 Terminator) would then have a cost of ~5-6, and still considerably better than a flat 2nd.

At this point, Gen-3 unit would have a cost of 10 or so; about the same original proportion, and certainly vastly more expensive, but reflecting the massive improvements in the system. The Raptor had a 7:1 advantage over the Type-94*, and while some of that can be attributed to the anti-TSF consideration in the Raptor's, the stealth is going to be of limited at that range, so a Gen-3 unit can probably be assumed to be at least 4 times better (and three times faster) than a 2.5.

*I'm considering the Type-94 a Gen-2.5 here; it was developed about the same time as the rest of those, and it can't really match the Takemikazuchi, Berkut, or Raptor.

Originally Posted by Gentranum

I'mnot entirely sure about TSFs since I haven't played the main game, but is their fuel source the same as say, jet fuel? Or is it special?

The TSF fuel is probably going to be essentially high-grade jet fuel. Basically Kerosene. There is apparently a chemical-rocket component in the Jump Unit system, but Kerosene is also a rocket fuel, so that probably just requires liquid oxygen generated by a compressor at the base or somesuch.

Originally Posted by Gentranum

Also, I'm not ammunitions guy, but are the calibers of Assault Cannon rounds the same for Soviets and say, NATO?

Everybody uses the same Assault Cannon ammo: 36mm chaingun and 120mm smoothbore cannon. I don't know why its a smoothbore, but it is. The only exceptions are the European Mk. 57 Squad Support Gun, which can be built to fire 57mm, 105mm, and allegedly 220mm rounds, and the American GAU-8 Avenger, which fires pure death.

Originally Posted by Gentranum

Oh? Is the Indonesian theater portrayed in any manner? I've only really been keeping track of Schwarzesmarken and Total Eclipse the anime.

To my knowledge, nowhere. From what I can piece together, Australia is relatively safe, it's population and economy have grown steadily, and many of the refugees from Europe settled there. They may actually become the second-largest economy in the world, as the USSR is a rump state and China is essentially gone.