Shin High School Volume 1 Discussion

[The Infinite Dream]

Top 10 deals with strength not brain power.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by CCPDarkraiRules

I refuse to believe that God of the Bible is in the Top 10 or Top 10 level.

I believe the power of Samael and Truth Idea comes from using the aspect of the Sacred Gear system where emotions power-up a Sacred Gear except instead of using a human's emotions it is using God of the Bible's emotions his anger and hatred for snakes and dragons for Samael and his will for Truth Idea which Azazel does call it "The Dying Will of the God of the Bible" and dying wills are usually filled with emotions regret, happiness etc.

How does that make any sense?

Samael's curse comes from him, and the strength of a curse is directly related to the strength of the creator. Or else Saji wouldnt have so much trouble. And the will in Truth Idea isnt "emotions", it's actually conscious. It can actively choose what to respond to. Besides, emotions cause evolution. Issei is the only one who turns them into raw power, and even then that's mostly BG boosting him.

His light was enough to take out Apophis and thousands of Evil Dragons just by shining at them from miles away. There aren't really a lot of other ways to take it.

[godz]

Viddar before volume 25 was not top 10, now with his boots he turned top 10.
Crom-cruach was not named in the top 10 because he was thought to be dead and now I do not think anyone denies his place in the top 10.
Issei and Vali in base are not top 10, but with their transformations yes.
Come to the point I want to reach.

[sbh1fr]

So, its a matter of belief?
Well in DxD, any chatacter is as powerful as Ishibumi wants them to be.
Personally i think that "God of the Bible" is not only among the top10 but should be among top5 or top3.
Though what you said about samael and true longinus maybe true.
Just to be fair we already know of god class being like Loki creating creature more powerful than himself (like fenrir).
Though i think thats not the case about god
since in the bible he should be omnipotent, omniscient. He should have powers over life and death like that of the graal. He should control sea like Nereid kyrie from stories of moses parting the red sea and noa deluge...

[Lucidrago]

God is dead and it doesn't matter anymore.

Let's please get back on-topic.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by XFire

How does that make any sense?

Samael's curse comes from him, and the strength of a curse is directly related to the strength of the creator. Or else Saji wouldnt have so much trouble. And the will in Truth Idea isnt "emotions", it's actually conscious. It can actively choose what to respond to. Besides, emotions cause evolution. Issei is the only one who turns them into raw power, and even then that's mostly BG boosting him.

His light was enough to take out Apophis and thousands of Evil Dragons just by shining at them from miles away. There aren't really a lot of other ways to take it.

Fenrir's existence clearly demonstrates a creation can be much stronger than its creator.

And the "thousands of evil dragons" aren't really relevant, considering they weren't ever any kind of threat. I am pretty sure the slap of Issei's mom could kill those guys by the hundreds lmao.

Originally Posted by sbh1fr

since in the bible he should be omnipotent, omniscient. He should have powers over life and death like that of the graal. He should control sea like Nereid kyrie from stories of moses parting the red sea and noa deluge...

And the same goes for pretty much any other major god in their respective texts.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Fenrir's existence clearly demonstrates a creation can be much stronger than its creator.

And the "thousands of evil dragons" aren't really relevant, considering they weren't ever any kind of threat. I am pretty sure the slap of Issei's mom could kill those guys by the hundreds lmao.

Except that Fenrir's powers and weapons aren't fueled by Loki. Samael's curse came from GotB, and Truth Idea is literally his left over will.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Fenrir's existence clearly demonstrates a creation can be much stronger than its creator.

And the "thousands of evil dragons" aren't really relevant, considering they weren't ever any kind of threat. I am pretty sure the slap of Issei's mom could kill those guys by the hundreds lmao.

but apophis if and more than the level of that apophis that would be a candidate for top 10, not to mention that as someone said God can use an invention of his to fight a case like what happened with Viddar or can be like great network that only fought in extreme situations (like the great war) ... but what we do know is, for example, what is revealed in volume 4, that their exsistence kept the other mythologies at bay and that is why the three factions agreed not to reveal their death to a desperate measure as it was what happened with kokabiel

Spoiler for volumen 4:

“—And that is the report from Michael-dono, Odin-sama.”

“These youngsters have sprung back up. It’s a bold thing pretending to be God, that damn Michael.” (!)

“What shall we do? It was unexpected that the God recorded in the Holy Bible has died.”

“Really, with that youngster Michael, that fake Lucifer and that naughty kid Azazel, it’s a play gathering of little brats.”

“Then, shall we teach those youngsters what we, the Asgard, the true Gods, are like?”

“Freyr, I won’t be able to respond to a war engulfing the world after so long with my old body. However, the earnestness of these youngsters is interesting. I’ll go watch the Rating Games of the Devils.”

“They do seem interesting, don’t they?”

“It does seem fun. The struggling of these youngsters who have lost their God. Now then, what will they do from now on?”

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by XFire

Except that Fenrir's powers and weapons aren't fueled by Loki. Samael's curse came from GotB, and Truth Idea is literally his left over will.

Then from what else could they have come? Fenrir is literally his son. No other super special source is there unless Angrboda is some Top 10 worthy dark horse, but seeing as she hasn't been ever noted as special, and only mentioned off-handedly as a normal giantess... I don't see what makes Fenrir substantially different from Samael or TI.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Then from what else could they have come? Fenrir is literally his son. No other super special source is there unless Angrboda is some Top 10 worthy dark horse, but seeing as she hasn't been ever noted as special, and only mentioned off-handedly as a normal giantess... I don't see what makes Fenrir substantially different from Samael or TI.

or it can be that fenrir is like sirzechs or ajuka, that the conditions were given so that an abnormal being was born (since zeoticus and venelana do not have anything of special)

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Then from what else could they have come? Fenrir is literally his son. No other super special source is there unless Angrboda is some Top 10 worthy dark horse, but seeing as she hasn't been ever noted as special, and only mentioned off-handedly as a normal giantess... I don't see what makes Fenrir substantially different from Samael or TI.

Loki created him. As in built him like a lego set, apparently.

The curse Samael uses is GotB curse. He didn't create Samael and then Samael generated it on its own, it came from GotB. It's literally his hatred towards dragons.

And TI is his will. As in his power, contained within the spear.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by XFire

Loki created him. As in built him like a lego set, apparently.

The curse Samael uses is GotB curse. He didn't create Samael and then Samael generated it on its own, it came from GotB. It's literally his hatred towards dragons.

And TI is his will. As in his power, contained within the spear.

Are you implying that Loki just had God-Slaying Top 10 worthy "pieces" or some foreign power source of the same nature and made Fenrir with it? Because if anything, the opposite is implied, as Fenrir is literally Loki's son.

Originally Posted by godz

or it can be that fenrir is like sirzechs or ajuka, that the conditions were given so that an abnormal being was born (since zeoticus and venelana do not have anything of special)

This one seems much more reasonable, but there's still no real implication of it.

[Parry999]

The orginal Maou made their own living longinus's too. Loki being able to make one isn't that far a stretch.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by Parry999

The orginal Maou made their own living longinus's too. Loki being able to make one isn't that far a stretch.

Exactly, which is why I'm saying a creation can be stronger than its creator, and therefore can't be used as a baseline for how strong the creator is.

[sbh1fr]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Fenrir's existence clearly demonstrates a creation can be much stronger than its creator.

And the "thousands of evil dragons" aren't really relevant, considering they weren't ever any kind of threat. I am pretty sure the slap of Issei's mom could kill those guys by the hundreds lmao.



And the same goes for pretty much any other major god in their respective texts.

Well. I think loki created fenrir too, as he is supposed to have created a second fenrir in the future in Ex volume.
I already mentioned creation being stronger than creation before you do. but i dont think that apply to GotB.
Dunno whereor if this is mentioned but i think faith and number of followers should influence the power of gods.
Unlike other mythologies, there is only one god in the bible and its power should be proportionel to that.
Well Great Red and Trihexa are also from the bible, and whie they are transcendent inbterm of power, the only diety in the bible namely God should be just as powerful...
Anyway i see no point in repeating same old quotes ...
So lets move to other topics related to shin. For example how strong do you think Nyx is compared to top10.
Also she's supposed to be mother of thanatos, morpheus, hypnos...

[TommyG]

Before we close the topic completely I'd like to say that faith influencing power makes sense in my opinion. Hinduism is the strongest faction and assuming god of the Bible was dragon god level seeing as how heis dead it makes sense that they are since Hinduism is the second largest religion behind Chrisitanity. The only flaw I see in the logic is why gods from ancient religions are in top 10 league like Hades. I imagine Nyx would be typical god class and I'm curious how Hypnos will be with Issei seeing as how he's now arrested his brother and mother.

[sbh1fr]

In wikipedia, nyx is feared by zeus. Dunno where that place her in strength rank.
About hypnos, i dont think he'll posr a problem... same with how midgardsomr isnt making problems after loki was defeated.

[TommyG]

They need to see him about Ingvild so I doubt hes going to start a fight but he could still be antagonistic towards Issei.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Are you implying that Loki just had God-Slaying Top 10 worthy "pieces" or some foreign power source of the same nature and made Fenrir with it? Because if anything, the opposite is implied, as Fenrir is literally Loki's son.

Loki is mentioned to have "modified" Fenrir to increase his power, removing his weakness to the chains that bound him in legend and putting him on the level of a HD.

Again, the point is that he somehow built/constructed Fenrir over an unknown period of time, and Fenrir's power is not directly powered by Loki. Loki may have created it, but he didnt power it himself.

TI and Samael are literally powered by GotB. They are vessels for an energy created directly by him and sealed into them.

[B214]

Originally Posted by XFire

Loki is mentioned to have "modified" Fenrir to increase his power, removing his weakness to the chains that bound him in legend and putting him on the level of a HD.

Again, the point is that he somehow built/constructed Fenrir over an unknown period of time, and Fenrir's power is not directly powered by Loki. Loki may have created it, but he didnt power it himself.

TI and Samael are literally powered by GotB. They are vessels for an energy created directly by him and sealed into them.

Any prove to back this up? Cause as far as i remember, Samael is an Angel he place a curse on.