Railgun Manga - Jailbreaker Arc Discussion / Poll

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

that's not true. That would only apply to railgun side but not in index side/magic side. the monsters later on in magic side are still, monsters. look at grs group.

Level 5.2 Misaka could deal with any of them aside from Fiamma and maybe Acqua.

[Kuroageha]

Terra is pretty broken with the proper condition and Vento's hack is good to counter Misaka tho.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Level 5.2 Misaka could deal with any of them aside from Fiamma and maybe Acqua.

this

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Terra is pretty broken with the proper condition and Vento's hack is good to counter Misaka tho.

Just because terra was off fast it doesn't mean his weak. his spell is actually pretty broken if its not been discovered on how to dealt with it, it would be hard to dealt with. I have seen some ability likes him that are shown as broken antagonist. In terms of presentation or spell potential alone. I would rate Terra higher than Aqua. Sure double saint is broken with its increased in stats but controlling the hierarchy of things is more broken. if presentented right, even aqua won't be able to damage terra with him being in higher hierarchy.

fiamma is just plain broken.


Vento wouldn't even need to do anything and biribiri lvl 5.2 would suffocate itself, if its not been awake after some time.

[Side-streetdog]

From latest chapter

Uiharu is too OP
Nerf her please

[GDB]

For the buildup from last chapter, that seemed... very anti-climatic.

Like, it's impressive, no doubt. But it just sort of happened?

[OH&S]

It's official. Railgun has now reached asspull territory.

[Kuroageha]

They ones doing this manga just don't give a shit about consistency anymore don't they?

They took the rule of cool and bulldozed their way. This can no longer be called canon at this point.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

They ones doing this manga just don't give a shit about consistency anymore don't they?

They took the rule of cool and bulldozed their way. This can no longer be called canon at this point.

You realize it's the same author as Index, right?

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by GDB

You realize it's the same author as Index, right?

You didn't forget the liberties the mangaka got right?

[tsunade666]

the mangaka did add something from what the author's script given to the mangaka. It even surprise the author from what i remember.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

You didn't forget the liberties the mangaka got right?

Does not matter because everything need the OK of the author in the end.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

the mangaka did add something from what the author's script given to the mangaka. It even surprise the author from what i remember.

Various instances confirmed by the mangaka and editor themselves. So they didn't have author's "OK", the author will just go GoT.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by alex_drian

Does not matter because everything need the OK of the author in the end.

welp, this

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Various instances confirmed by the mangaka and editor themselves. So they didn't have author's "OK", the author will just go GoT.

If the author is surprised, then the author is uninformed for it to be surprised

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by GDB

You realize it's the same author as Index, right?

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

You didn't forget the liberties the mangaka got right?

Originally Posted by alex_drian

Does not matter because everything need the OK of the author in the end.

Let's not make any assumptions about what people are aware of.

During the airing of the Railgun T anime, the Railgun manga editor has made tweets that have shed light on how the manga is developed. What is now clear is that while Kamachi Kazuma comes up with all of the concept and basic plot direction for the arc, the Railgun manga editor and the mangaka, Fuyukwawa Motoi, actually have a significant say in how the final version of the manga plays out. For example, #7 Sogiita Gunha and the Dragon Strike were originally not in the climax of the Daihaseisai Arc; these were put forward by the mangaka and editor and okayed by Kamachi. So its more a collaboration between Kamachi, Fuyukawa and the editors; even though Kamachi has to give the final okay or blessing. I'm sure Kmachi probably feels that characters that only appear in Railgun are more Fuyukawa's characters than his; I know he's felt this way about #5 Shokuhou Misaki when trying to write her in the LNs (even though the character herself was conceptualized by him).

I do want to be clear that the idea for Uiharu in the most recent chapter most likely comes from Kamachi himself. This appears to be an extension of a minor throwaway passage in LN Volume SS2 (not animated) where Uiharu is demonstrating her hacking ability:

Originally Posted by SS2 Chapter 14

Uiharu frowned and used her eyes to follow the pattern with which the data was moving.

That little bit of interaction with the data brought the “flower” that the system was to her mind.

Currently, she was looking at the end of a root. She imagined the stalk and the leaves from there and then the flow of water and nutrients. It all created a large image of the whole flower in her head. This way of calculating within a kind of organization by imaging it from various angles was what Uiharu did when she hacked.

If Uiharu Kazari actually had a special ability, she might have been able to construct a tremendous Personal Reality and display enormous power.

So the intent definitely comes from Kamachi. Even the emotional beats of the chapter are fine. The problem is the execution of the intent and how its portrayed in the manga. And its honestly just not good.

I'm going to assume that there must be a valid explanation for what's going on in Kamachi's head but Fuyukawa has failed to convey it without it looking like a complete asspull. Kinda like Kamachi's idea of miracles in the Endymion film being nonsensical as the Index anime explains shit all.

This quote from a frustrated reader sums it up best:

What I'm raged about is the execution of the idea of her getting power up; it seems like it came out of nowhere. Don't you think doing something as huge as changing someone's AIM field needs some special technology to achieve it and someone knowledgeable in the field to execute it?!! She did something even the scientists did not think about, even the Kihara family themselves, by using just AIM jammers to give herself new power even though she is not knowledgeable in the field which is stupid in my opinion.
She even thought about this in a little time and was able to do calculations as if she was Level 5. Heck, she was able to separate the dragon just because she is good at hacking!!

This might be the first time in the series where the manga format has actually hurt the story. I'm reminded of a similar structure that occurred in the light novels; specifically the climax of the Agitate Halation Arc in NT Volume 7.

In the arc's climax, the villain of the arc

Spoiler:

Rensa

has shown superiority over the heroes opposing them.

Spoiler:

Kamijou Touma and #2 Kakine Teitoku

When all hope seems lost, the damsel in distress,

Spoiler:

Fremea Seivulen,

despite being a Level 0, takes control of the phenomena that has been permeating throughout the entire arc

Spoiler:

AIM shading computer influencing the aggregate of AIM diffusion fields

and uses it to take away the villain's superiority allowing the heroes to defeat the villain in one last climactic showdown.

This is, beat by beat, identical to what's happening in the Jailbreaker Arc's climax. In an alternate timeline, the Agitate Halation Arc's climax would also have been a massive asspull. But no one who has read the volume described it as such.

Why? Because Kamachi thoroughly described the arc's phenomena in great detail before the climax. When the "twist" happens and we are getting an active explanation of why its happening; the readers aren't confused because the author has been very transparent beforehand.

This is on Fuyukawa here; we have to accept at face value a lot of feats that have had no prior explanation or comparison. The result is that while Uiharu looks cool and all, the climax of the fight has been ruined because the tension has been evaporated and has left confusion in its wake. And I'm still not even sure why it happened; because Fuyukawa didn't explain it properly.

But gosh darn it, Uiharu looks really cool.

[jalvin_billster1091]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Let's not make any assumptions about what people are aware of.

During the airing of the Railgun T anime, the Railgun manga editor has made tweets that have shed light on how the manga is developed. What is now clear is that while Kamachi Kazuma comes up with all of the concept and basic plot direction for the arc, the Railgun manga editor and the mangaka, Fuyukwawa Motoi, actually have a significant say in how the final version of the manga plays out. For example, #7 Sogiita Gunha and the Dragon Strike were originally not in the climax of the Daihaseisai Arc; these were put forward by the mangaka and editor and okayed by Kamachi. So its more a collaboration between Kamachi, Fuyukawa and the editors; even though Kamachi has to give the final okay or blessing. I'm sure Kmachi probably feels that characters that only appear in Railgun are more Fuyukawa's characters than his; I know he's felt this way about #5 Shokuhou Misaki when trying to write her in the LNs (even though the character herself was conceptualized by him).

I do want to be clear that the idea for Uiharu in the most recent chapter most likely comes from Kamachi himself. This appears to be an extension of a minor throwaway passage in LN Volume SS2 (not animated) where Uiharu is demonstrating her hacking ability:



So the intent definitely comes from Kamachi. Even the emotional beats of the chapter are fine. The problem is the execution of the intent and how its portrayed in the manga. And its honestly just not good.

I'm going to assume that there must be a valid explanation for what's going on in Kamachi's head but Fuyukawa has failed to convey it without it looking like a complete asspull. Kinda like Kamachi's idea of miracles in the Endymion film being nonsensical as the Index anime explains shit all.

This quote from a frustrated reader sums it up best:


This might be the first time in the series where the manga format has actually hurt the story. I'm reminded of a similar structure that occurred in the light novels; specifically the climax of the Agitate Halation Arc in NT Volume 7.

In the arc's climax, the villain of the arc

Spoiler:

Rensa

has shown superiority over the heroes opposing them.

Spoiler:

Kamijou Touma and #2 Kakine Teitoku

When all hope seems lost, the damsel in distress,

Spoiler:

Fremea Seivulen,

despite being a Level 0, takes control of the phenomena that has been permeating throughout the entire arc

Spoiler:

AIM shading computer influencing the aggregate of AIM diffusion fields

and uses it to take away the villain's superiority allowing the heroes to defeat the villain in one last climactic showdown.

This is, beat by beat, identical to what's happening in the Jailbreaker Arc's climax. In an alternate timeline, the Agitate Halation Arc's climax would also have been a massive asspull. But no one who has read the volume described it as such.

Why? Because Kamachi thoroughly described the arc's phenomena in great detail before the climax. When the "twist" happens and we are getting an active explanation of why its happening; the readers aren't confused because the author has been very transparent beforehand.

This is on Fuyukawa here; we have to accept at face value a lot of feats that have had no prior explanation or comparison. The result is that while Uiharu looks cool and all, the climax of the fight has been ruined because the tension has been evaporated and has left confusion in its wake. And I'm still not even sure why it happened; because Fuyukawa didn't explain it properly.

But gosh darn it, Uiharu looks really cool.

Thanks for the explanation, I didn't even put two and two together until I read your everything your wrote.

I was thinking along the lines of asspull and out of nowhere until someone of facebook pointed out that it is slightly hinted in the Dengeki Banko: Fighting Climax where Uiharu uses the flower thingy with the Robot for the combination attack.

But with your explanation I understand more now.... Thank you

[tsunade666]

0_0

the flower thingy is still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay away from hacking explanation. I can't relate a flower to how hacking is done and how its not even her esper ability. She can stop a change in temperature on an object as a level 1? she was shown good at hacking since the beginning but flower? flower is no where.

[Kuroageha]

That's reaching IMO, and an attempt to damage control a poor execution.

[OH&S]

@jalvin_billster1091 @tsunade666 @Kuroageha

Just so no one misunderstands, I still think its a massive asspull/deus ex machina. SS2 only suggests a future idea which could be extrapolated on and appears to be on display here. But the technicalities of what's happening make no sense to me. I just can't buy anything that's actually happening here.

She materialized her AIM diffusion field. WHAT!?
She's using the AIM Jammers to interfere with and modify her own AIM diffusion field at the micro-level to change her power into something else. WHAT!?
She's constantly performing inhuman calculations beyond what supercomputers can do. WHAT!?
She redefined the real world to a digital one. WHAT!?

This is HACK THE PLANET levels of bad.

I was so frustrated with this chapter, I went straight to 4chan to ask what I was missing and what they thought was going on. No one could give me an answer where there was consensus and one that I could buy; not on 4chan and not on reddit. That's a monumental fuck up on Fuyukawa's part. Terrible execution.

[GDB]

The biggest weird thing to me, honestly, isn't even what's happening right here in this chapter. I blame a lot of this chapter's weirdness on what feels like a lack of proper explanation, rushing, etc. Felt like 2-3 chapters of stuff condensed into less than 1.

But no, what got me is a chapter or two back when she was going down the dark path before Saten told her not to. She was getting the dragon marks then too. So this clearly isn't 100% something that's being done by her own hacking ability or anything.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by GDB

But no, what got me is a chapter or two back when she was going down the dark path before Saten told her not to. She was getting the dragon marks then too. So this clearly isn't 100% something that's being done by her own hacking ability or anything.

That's a whole other can of worms confounding the whole climax. Chapter 124 seemed to suggest a connection to the dragon most likely through Uiharu's consumption of Kimi's blood. But again, no explanation is given. And Chapters 126-127 haven't implied anything related to the blood behind anything.

So there's only two possibilities:

1. the blood plays no part and everything is Uiharu's super special hacking skillz (which was an endearing quality of hers before this chapter); this is really bad. Or,
2. the blood has played "some" part; but we have no idea which part; and what powers the blood even has; nor why a small drop of the blood would even grant her powers in the first place; nor if Uiharu is even aware that the blood is doing anything to her. In which case, it's still bad because it relies on an unexplained ability to resolve the plot. That's a significant departure from Index convention where everything is explained (bar the core long term mysteries that develop over multiple novels; this structure is not present in Railgun).

Either way, its not looking good.