Coronavirus 2020-22

[EroKing]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/CJ3Yk01zWu8

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[Jaden]

https://threadreaders.com/thread/1419653002818990085

Interesting read, in case you were wondering what kinds of deals your governments made to secure vaccines.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Jaden

https://threadreaders.com/thread/1419653002818990085

Interesting read, in case you were wondering what kinds of deals your governments made to secure vaccines.

I don't get it....this kind of contract is pretty much standard in international purchasing. Yeah, big companies hold loads of advantages as anyone working a white collar job will know.

The weirdest thing is why Ivermectin is even mentioned. Nothing says you cannot have a treatment as well as the vaccine. Void the vaccine contract just because you found a treatment? Why? They play different roles

[Key Board]

Do you really believe this "leak" is real to begin with.
I am skeptical.

Anyway, I think the tldr is is Ivermectin has become the new HCQ
It's become politicized. Certain groups believe it to be the magical cure that the everyone is suppressing

Not just in the US either.

//

[EroKing]

I can't say about others but my dad and 4 relatives survived from the delta variant and Ivermectin was a part of their treatment. 2 other relatives didn't and they died back in May during the same time. Like Professor Woo-joo Kim says in the above video, just vaccines aren't going to help this change from a pandemic to a seasonal virus. One will need both vaccines and a decent number of anti-viral drugs to come up and be largely available to the people.

[Key Board]

Ivermectin isn’t an anti viral. It’s for parasitic worms. I’m not sure how it is supposed to help

the data i have seen suggest that it doesn’t reduce mortality or hospitalization rate, and is barely different from a placebo

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...bles/table-2c/

//

[EroKing]

Who the hell said Ivermectin is an anti-viral? I addressed 2 different things...

Take most current data out there to simply being insufficient or incomplete. There's a lot of information that the West will be putting out in their media after it is too late, yet again.

[mangamuscle]

if memory serves me right (anyone can google for detail), Ivermectin in the early stages can hinder the virus replication, which in turn gives time to the body immune system to react (without overreacting). But IMO it is quite irresponsible to take said medication "just in case I get infected".

IMO said leak is just right wing propaganda (which wants to convince their flock to not get the vaccine), best case scenario Ivermectin is part of the arsenal to battle sars-cov2, worst case scenario is no different Remdesivir, once touted as a cure but nowadays nobody speaks about it anymore.

[Nachtwandler]

Got my first Moderna injection a few days ago. It was not that bad, I just had 37.4 C and was super fatigued for a day. Also it was hard to move my right arm sop I postponded my driving license exam. But at least now I have some protectuion. Second one next month.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I don't get it....this kind of contract is pretty much standard in international purchasing. Yeah, big companies hold loads of advantages as anyone working a white collar job will know.

Oh, ok. I found it rather overbearing - certainly not the kind of rosy private-public partnership that the Trump admin spoke of. If it's like this, governments might be better off funding the entire development as a public project.

The weirdest thing is why Ivermectin is even mentioned. Nothing says you cannot have a treatment as well as the vaccine. Void the vaccine contract just because you found a treatment? Why? They play different roles

The ivermectin reference is editorializing by whoever posted that stuff on Twitter.

The better argument goes like this:

The vaccines were not approved in the usual way, but instead by EUA (emergency use authorization), in the US at least. And one of the conditions for EUA is that no other powerful treatment exists.

Therefore if someone came up with a cure for COVID, it might be the case that you couldn't legally administer the vaccines anymore in the US. And that's the kind of scenario Pfizer was worried about when they made their sales.

I don't buy into ivermectin much, it's another one of those repurposed drugs like chloroquine that might do something for COVID, but just not good enough. Need something more specialized that is effective for far-progressed infections.

[c933103]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

if memory serves me right (anyone can google for detail), Ivermectin in the early stages can hinder the virus replication, which in turn gives time to the body immune system to react (without overreacting). But IMO it is quite irresponsible to take said medication "just in case I get infected".

IMO said leak is just right wing propaganda (which wants to convince their flock to not get the vaccine), best case scenario Ivermectin is part of the arsenal to battle sars-cov2, worst case scenario is no different Remdesivir, once touted as a cure but nowadays nobody speaks about it anymore.

?
Remdesivir is effective
It is not a cure but it helps somewhat
Just like quite a number of other medicines.
No onw "talk" about it anymore because it's just part of the routine nowadays
https://www.docwirenews.com/abstract...ta-analysis-3/

Speaking of which, I seems to recall Chinese military is now applying for patent to use Remdesivir in treating coronavirus, and claim they have submitted such application in 2020 Januwary, and thus making their patent application difficult to challenge as others don't have any experience to treat coronavirus patent by 2020 January, and doing so would legally bar any countries who aren't friendly with them from using Remdesivir to treat coronavirus patent.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by c933103

?
Remdesivir is effective
It is not a cure but it helps somewhat
Just like quite a number of other medicines.
No onw "talk" about it anymore because it's just part of the routine nowadays

Routine? maybe in the 1st world countries, at $3,100 USD (that is supposing it does not get a price hike like the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the near future) for a full treatment only the rich would afford it and at least here it wasn't approved for emergency use until march of this year, before that anyone importing Remdesivir would get jail.

As a cost saving measure for reduced hospitalizations time it does not fit with the hospital costs over here.

Last but not least, I would like a recent study about it's effectiveness against the delta variant, this virus is a moving target and the medicines recommended over the past year for its treatment have changed.

[EroKing]

Unvaccinated and vaccinated have similar viral load in communities high in SARS-CoV-2 delta.

On July 27, 2021, CDC announced updated Guidance for COVID-19 Prevention Strategies. Among strategies to prevent COVID-19, CDC recommends all unvaccinated people wear masks in public indoor settings. Based on emerging evidence of the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant, CDC also recommends that fully vaccinated people wear masks in public indoor settings in areas of substantial or high transmission.

The stupidity of people and even CDC changing stance every few weeks based on government policies and not science is what's going to kill more people. Keep your mask on, even after getting your shot. It is the new norm.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by EroKing

CDC changing stance every few weeks based on government policies and not science is what's going to kill more people.

The problem is that scientists are not leaders and science is a like a whack-a-mole game, a scientist is right until a new peer reviewed paper or experiment says otherwise. Problem is that nothing stops companies from paying for papers or experiments that might help them. Also, at the end of the day Fauci (and many like him) are bureaucrats which can't just do as they please.

[c933103]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Routine? maybe in the 1st world countries, at $3,100 USD (that is supposing it does not get a price hike like the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the near future) for a full treatment only the rich would afford it and at least here it wasn't approved for emergency use until march of this year, before that anyone importing Remdesivir would get jail.

As a cost saving measure for reduced hospitalizations time it does not fit with the hospital costs over here.

Last but not least, I would like a recent study about it's effectiveness against the delta variant, this virus is a moving target and the medicines recommended over the past year for its treatment have changed.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/81...1745d5052a9787

In Japan, the use of Remedesivir for moderate and severe coronavirus patients will be fully covered by national medical insurance, at a price of 600 USD per bottle and typical adult would use 6 bottles throughout duration of treatment, cost on patients will be zero, and 42,000 is expected to benefit from it.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by c933103

In Japan, ...

Meanwhile, in Mexico ...

https://www.axios.com/mexico-shortag...6b970e659.html

The difference between the 1st world and the 3rd world is the performance (or lack of) of their governments. Here even aspirins have become under supplied in public health services. Remdesivir? Yeah right, in your dreams.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Do you really believe this "leak" is real to begin with.
I am skeptical.



//

I don't know if it's real or not but in general, MNCs have quite a lot of sway in most developed countries in dispute settlement and other legal areas. A lot of purchasing agreements have terms like that also

Therefore if someone came up with a cure for COVID, it might be the case that you couldn't legally administer the vaccines anymore in the US. And that's the kind of scenario Pfizer was worried about when they made their sales.

I think facts on the ground all over the globe have progressed too far to stop vaccinating anymore. If it were early stages when most countries were just rolling out vaccines maybe, but now.....

I don't really buy ivermectin either tbh. The most promising ones are the passive immunization with monoclonal antibody cocktails but they obviously have to be updated if new variants are too different from what they can target and for serious disease, where the virus is cleared but the immune response is the one doing the damage, immune modulating treatment regimes

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by EroKing

Unvaccinated and vaccinated have similar viral load in communities high in SARS-CoV-2 delta.

I'm not sure if this is the same study but I did hear of something similar being criticised because they filtered out everyone with low viral load...

It's clear from data in the UK that vaccines really do help against Delta, both by reducing hospitalisations and especially deaths. It doesn't seem quite so helpful in reducing spread though. Basically, in the Delta wave, there was a big spike in infections but deaths went up far far less.

[mangamuscle]

Just a quick comment, percentage of daily death in my city for those below 60 have jumped from about one half to two thirds; with the delta variant this is no longer a disease that kills mostly the old, worst case scenario is that the next variant will lower more the death age average.

Yeah, over here people 60 and above should already have both jabs, but not so long ago deaths below 60 were sporadic and we are now seeing 20+ deaths a day (today was 33), not less than ten like before the latest wave hit, so it is not like the pool is so small that age jumps all over the place each day.

[mangamuscle]

Mhh, surprised no one has commented on this

They test in Israel anti-Covid spray that could cure the disease in 5 days

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...-Asian-markets

As in, really, nitric oxide? sounds too good to be true, but if it is, we would know for sure if the "leaked" vaccine clause about not buying into any cure if available will come into play.