Fate/stay night Episode 4 Discussion thread

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by vin.dictive

I found Beserker's roar retarded. Like you, I also want his game roar back as well or at least a better roar to match his demonic image. Ahh well...



Sushi, have you seen this on Koi-chan?

Berserker's supposed to be a monster, and his roar from the game fitted that image, the anime's version sounded like Berserker's grandpa or something.

As for those pages, I recognize them, but forgot the contents. Yes, the interview with Sato Takuya mentioned that they wanted to bring the "attractive" elements from all three scenarios together for the anime.

That sounds great and all, but we'll see if they can actuall pull it off without creating any inconsistencies.

Spoiler for again, speculation on future directions:

Like I mentioned earlier, the lack of portrayal of Archer's injury might mean he's not actually out of the action like he was in the "Fate" route, and we could very well see an "Unlimited Blade Works" development later on. Same for Sakura's "Heaven's Feel-y" reaction at the end of episode 4.

[justinstrife]

A couple of points I wanted to make about posts on this thread.

1) Kain sure sounds like someone who has never truely thought about what it takes to kill another human being. He compares this to magic games, but if this were real life, it wouldn't be so simple just to kill another. Especially considering you're not watching it on a screen, but it's happening right infront of you. When the other person might not necessarily be trying to kill you. He just seems very naive in his own judgement about how the characters in Fate are conducting their Holy Grail war. I mean, Shirou didn't know about this Holy Grail War till just last episode. His whole life he's only thought about protecting others. You can't expect him to be a blood thirsty master, not when he already has his own morals firmly in place. As for Rin, she's got her own reasons for not killing Shirou. You don't have to have played the game to have a small understanding what at least part of those reasons are(though it does give those reasons more depth if you had).

2) People commenting about how worthless Shirou is. Considering he only knew his own limited sorcery, it's no surprise he can't do alot yet. He's been almost completely sheltered from Magic, but he's done remarkably well considering the writers are not trying to make him into a Goku or Kira right in the first 2 episodes. Also, the fact that he was able to jump in, push Saber out of the way, then still have time to turn towards Berserker should say volumes about his own potential, should he live long enough to reach it. I mean he needed some killer speed to move that fast. He may not be that strong yet, but he's honorable, honest, and non-wavering in his sense of right and wrong, and willing to sacrifice himself, for the protection of others. He doesn't sit there and cry like Kira from GS, yell and bitch and moan like Shinn from GSD, or be all undecided like Rin from Shuffle. He knows what he believes in, and does the best he can, considering what little chances he has of succeeding. Okay done ranting.

Loving the Rin x Shirou and Saber x Shirou moments this episode. I had to bump the episode into a 9 after several more watches. Saber and Rin's reactions to comments Shirou makes are worth a thousand pictures.

[ctrl-z]

Originally Posted by ImperialPanda

Holding back, holding back, holding back... is anime permanently stuck on this ridiculous notion? OMFG Saber got hit, ok everyone now we must pause and work through cheesy dialogue to dramatize the moment!

"I will kill you the next time I meet you." WTF, W-T-F, why not this time?! That's just plain stupid. You're... bored....? Not only is that an insufficient reason, that's also an illogical reason. If you're bored with a video game do you play it tomorrow instead? No. I think most people would sell it on ebay or to gamestop. Or in this case, that translates to just demolishing Rin and Shirou on the spot. Doing so would also support the notion that these "Masters" are fighting for the "Holy Grail", which, by all accounts, seem to be the case. But I guess not.

The more than obvious reasoning behind the scene:

Writer: Ok we want shirou to lose, but we don't want him to die. So... "I'm bored!"
Everyone else: COOL!

-_-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Finally, it seems the "fight for half an episode and then talk for the remainder" is becoming a nice trend. And of course, over-dramatized.

P.S. yes I've read all the synopses, character profiles, and translations for the game yesterday.

I think we've already run the "Ilya seems illogical" bit into the ground by now... Illogical acts are abound even in the real world, but sometimes they make sense after time passes and more information is revealed, so for the time being just sit tight. Besides...

Spoiler for game, kinda:

If you know a lot about the game already, particularly in light of the fact that the anime creators have admitted that they'd like to use as much of the story from all three chapters as possible, then you'd realize that: (a) The part with Shirou not dying has nothing to do with the writers trying to sketch out a "loss but make a comeback" scene... in fact, even Tohsaka was surprised that he survived. It's part of the story that he survived. (b) Ilya's strange attachment to Shirou (already hinted at in the anime to some degree) is primarily relevant in at least one of the three arcs.

Hmm as for Saber's eyes turning red during the Berserker battle... I saw that, too, and the first thing I thought of was...

Spoiler:

In Tsukihime/Nasu's universe (I assume most of his ideologies are consistent between Tsuki and FSN), red, gold = demonic power? Although I don't see why Saber would turn evil or invoke power of that nature, at least not right now. Maybe it was just symbolic of anger? Any thoughts from Sushi or kj?

[ImperialPanda]

Originally Posted by ctrl-z

I think we've already run the "Ilya seems illogical" bit into the ground by now... Illogical acts are abound even in the real world, but sometimes they make sense after time passes and more information is revealed, so for the time being just sit tight. Besides...

Spoiler for game, kinda:

If you know a lot about the game already, particularly in light of the fact that the anime creators have admitted that they'd like to use as much of the story from all three chapters as possible, then you'd realize that: (a) The part with Shirou not dying has nothing to do with the writers trying to sketch out a "loss but make a comeback" scene... in fact, even Tohsaka was surprised that he survived. It's part of the story that he survived. (b) Ilya's strange attachment to Shirou (already hinted at in the anime to some degree) is primarily relevant in at least one of the three arcs.

Yes illogical acts are abound in real life, but you don't make a movie out of it, unless the character is suppose to be insane.

So they want Shirou to survive, ok. But is it so much to ask to have them do it in a more succulent manner?

In a game, I can see how such a scene might work, or is at least passable. But not in an anime.

[justinstrife]

Well how about this imperial. Since logic also escapes your reasoning. The master mentioned, is also a little girl. Sure she's wiser than most as far as Masters go, yada yada yada. But she's still a little girl. She's also quite arrogant, and feels that she can kill them at any time, at her own convenience. With that kind of arrogance, is it not logical to believe, that the circumstances weren't to her liking? That she wanted things to go a little bit more differently then they played out, so she's willing to try again another time? For all you know, she could be wanting to envoke more fear into Shirou by killing Saber infront of him while he watches, just to have the enjoyment of seeing his expressions as it happens.

You speak of logic, yet you yourself completely missed the 8-ball with your lack of consideration of other factors that might be at work behind the scenes.

[andiyar]

@ justinstrife:

Yes, Ilya's motivation both sounds and feels petulant. The impression I received was of a rather intelligent, but very spoiled little girl. Aristocratic, really. And when any small child doesn't get their way, they tend to react in similar patterns; they either go ballistic as they try to force their viewpoints, ie, a tantrum, or they simply ignore what has happened as if they meant for it to happen all along.

Ilya felt that she was in control. There was nothing stopping her from killing Rin & Shirou/Saber except her own complicated emotions. She didn't throw a tantrum that things were preceeding unexpectedly (and believe me, if you drop suprises on a 7-10 year old that they really don't want, especially if they've got the whole 'spoiled brat' thing going for them, they will go ballistic) which seems somewhat controlled, but she still let her age group speak for her - it was no longer important to her as it wasn't going her way. Watch a kid play chess or something - how many of them just fold after they've started to lose, and how many of them just play badly? The ones who fold just turn up their nose and shrug, and say, 'I could win if I wanted to, but I don't feel like it'. The others play worse and worse and if they do lose, scream about cheaters.

Ilya fits into the first group.

And other than that? Highly enjoyable episode. I'm very much enjoying the hints of the relationship between Rin & Shirou that have been dancing around since episode 1 (for Shirou) and episode 2 (for Rin). Also... hunger is our enemy. I love you Saber ^_^


-Andiyar

[Maids! Maids! Maids!]

Originally Posted by ImperialPanda

Yes illogical acts are abound in real life, but you don't make a movie out of it, unless the character is suppose to be insane.

So they want Shirou to survive, ok. But is it so much to ask to have them do it in a more succulent manner?

In a game, I can see how such a scene might work, or is at least passable. But not in an anime.

She's a nasty, spoiled little girl (with all the "me-me-me, it's all about me!" baggage that comes with that label), this is a game to her, and she wants to play it on her terms.

[DragoonKain3]

Imperial Panda, I feel the same way as you do. If Ilya was as mature as she exhibits, then why does she still show child-like tendencies? That's contradictory. -_-;

However, seeing so much anime already, I learned to accept contradictory things. Anime never really was suppose to make total sense; all I ask of it is to lay minimal amount of clues. Which they did but I missed first time around.

1) Kain sure sounds like someone who has never truely thought about what it takes to kill another human being. He compares this to magic games, but if this were real life, it wouldn't be so simple just to kill another. Especially considering you're not watching it on a screen, but it's happening right infront of you. When the other person might not necessarily be trying to kill you. He just seems very naive in his own judgement about how the characters in Fate are conducting their Holy Grail war. I mean, Shirou didn't know about this Holy Grail War till just last episode. His whole life he's only thought about protecting others. You can't expect him to be a blood thirsty master, not when he already has his own morals firmly in place. As for Rin, she's got her own reasons for not killing Shirou. You don't have to have played the game to have a small understanding what at least part of those reasons are(though it does give those reasons more depth if you had).

I made the analogy to Magic, because really, the results are the same, even though the consequences for war is much higher. In competitive magic, either you lose the game, or you win the game. Let them have another turn to 'give them a chance', or play around with them 'just because its fun', would most likely result in your defeat. All you lose is some ranking points and the chance for a higher prize, but that's it.

In a war however, the stakes are THAT MUCH higher, because it's your very life that's on the line. This should make 'winning' an ever higher priority than a game of magic! Either you kill the person, or you yourself gets killed. If you even give one inch of hesitation, if you even give them one chance to get back on their feet, it might be you who's dead next.

You compare this anime to real life, but you're comparing it to EVERYDAY real life, which is a very big mistake. This is anything but everyday stuff, because it more resembles real life war. In fact, last time I checked, this show IS about a war. This is not some silly show like Pokemon in which your henchmen do battle with each other; the master's life is at stake, and so far none of the masters apart from Lancer's has truly grasped this concept.

And when you say 'When the other person might not necessarily be trying to kill you', oh boy are you mistaken. It's so much safer to assume otherwise, because a "team's" weakpoint is the master, and that has been confirmed in eps 2. Did you see that even Rin, who's been training for this battle for TEN long years, can't even scratch Berzerker? Sure one can just kill the servant to disqualify the master, but that is next to impossible and so the only other alternative is to kill rival masters.

And let me ask you, if Rin and Shirou were the last one standing, do you think they'll be all chummy? Shirou might not want to kill Rin, but so far all Rin has shown is that she truly wants to win the Grail war. Considering that Saber seems to easily resist her spells (eps. 3), if Rin wanted to win, she would have to kill Shirou herself. I don't know why she decided to spare Shirou now if the conflict is unavoidable later on, but that's her problem and her life on the line, not mine.

I do not take killing lightly. In fact, I'm against the Death Penalty period. But in a war, there is no 'morality', because it's simply one armed side trying to kill the other. In that case, I'd rather be alive than dead, no? And if I am a grunt and want to be alive in an ongoing war, the opposition MUST be dead, no ifs, buts or ands about it. It's not about being cold-blooded or blood-thirsty, but it's just a matter of 'self-preservation' in a war. And I don't think anyone here would call any of the World War veterans 'cold-blooded' or 'blood-thirsty' because they killed people; they simply did what they had to do (kill the opposition) in order to stay alive.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Imperial Panda, I feel the same way as you do. If Ilya was as mature as she exhibits, then why does she still show child-like tendencies? That's contradictory. -_-;

However, seeing so much anime already, I learned to accept contradictory things. Anime never really was suppose to make total sense; all I ask of it is to lay minimal amount of clues. Which they did but I missed first time around.





I made the analogy to Magic, because really, the results are the same, even though the consequences for war is much higher. In competitive magic, either you lose the game, or you win the game. Let them have another turn to 'give them a chance', or play around with them 'just because its fun', would most likely result in your defeat. All you lose is some ranking points and the chance for a higher prize, but that's it.

In a war however, the stakes are THAT MUCH higher, because it's your very life that's on the line. This should make 'winning' an ever higher priority than a game of magic! Either you kill the person, or you yourself gets killed. If you even give one inch of hesitation, if you even give them one chance to get back on their feet, it might be you who's dead next.

You compare this anime to real life, but you're comparing it to EVERYDAY real life, which is a very big mistake. This is anything but everyday stuff, because it more resembles real life war. In fact, last time I checked, this show IS about a war. This is not some silly show like Pokemon in which your henchmen do battle with each other; the master's life is at stake, and so far none of the masters apart from Lancer's has truly grasped this concept.

And when you say 'When the other person might not necessarily be trying to kill you', oh boy are you mistaken. It's so much safer to assume otherwise, because a "team's" weakpoint is the master, and that has been confirmed in eps 2. Did you see that even Rin, who's been training for this battle for TEN long years, can't even scratch Berzerker? Sure one can just kill the servant to disqualify the master, but that is next to impossible and so the only other alternative is to kill rival masters.

And let me ask you, if Rin and Shirou were the last one standing, do you think they'll be all chummy? Shirou might not want to kill Rin, but so far all Rin has shown is that she truly wants to win the Grail war. Considering that Saber seems to easily resist her spells (eps. 3), if Rin wanted to win, she would have to kill Shirou herself. I don't know why she decided to spare Shirou now if the conflict is unavoidable later on, but that's her problem and her life on the line, not mine.

I do not take killing lightly. In fact, I'm against the Death Penalty period. But in a war, there is no 'morality', because it's simply one armed side trying to kill the other. In that case, I'd rather be alive than dead, no? And if I am a grunt and want to be alive in an ongoing war, the opposition MUST be dead, no ifs, buts or ands about it. It's not about being cold-blooded or blood-thirsty, but it's just a matter of 'self-preservation' in a war. And I don't think anyone here would call any of the World War veterans 'cold-blooded' or 'blood-thirsty' because they killed people; they simply did what they had to do (kill the opposition) in order to stay alive.

I don't think you know Rin as well as you think you do. Also considering, that Shirou and Rin both have no actual wishes from the Grail itself, and both would probably want more of the same thing than not, do you think they'd really be all that much in a rush to kill each other? Shirou just wants to end the suffering. Rin just wants to follow in her father's footsteps, and make sure the Grail doesn't get misused by others with less than true intentions. The two are probably more alike than you realize. Also the fact that she does have some kind of connection with him, will play a bigger role as the story goes on.

[ctrl-z]

Originally Posted by ImperialPanda

Yes illogical acts are abound in real life, but you don't make a movie out of it, unless the character is suppose to be insane.

So they want Shirou to survive, ok. But is it so much to ask to have them do it in a more succulent manner?

In a game, I can see how such a scene might work, or is at least passable. But not in an anime.

You make movies about characters and their stories. Not very often do protagonists make it all the way through their "journey" without making a few illogical acts. Just like real people. We empathize with the cast and thus either grow appreciative of their story or learn to hate them, or somewhere in between. I don't see the point of your first sentence, it's a red herring -- so far, F/sn hasn't demonstrated itself to be a show about illogical acts.

You said you know a lot about the game, so I'll throw out my opinion that the method in which Shirou survived WAS quite interesting in the end, and ties together at least one other thread in the plot tapestry.

I can definitely understand your point of view on how this scene could work better in a game (perhaps more text info or character thoughts expressed to the viewer), but in this case I believe (iirc) the game scene was similar in that there was no immediate reason as to Ilya's retreat or Shirou's survival. It's a novel at heart, and has to be interpreted like one; something strange happens and you hope that it'll be explained in the future because in the context of what you know so far, it's possible to make reasonable speculations about it. The same way you can learn to both hate and love characters in a story, perhaps because you hated them at first due to how they were portrayed, and then loved them further on due to circumstance, change, or perspective (i.e., background), this story might make more sense if you sit back and consider the possibilities instead of jumping to conclusions (and denigrating the show).

EDIT: If one knows absolutely nothing about the game, though, I'm more sympathetic to criticism about the show's pace and the scenes (and their explanations, or lack thereof). It is being paced rather slow and steady right now, although I think the pace suits the current part of the show, considering the amount of detail there is in the game and the amount of info the creator's have had to leave out despite said pacing. I'd hope that unfamiliar viewers will take the show with a grain of salt and be patient for more details to be filled in about the story and the characters' backgrounds in future episodes (although this applies to all stories, whatever their form).

But then again, if you just plain don't like the show, well, that's that. ;D

[DragoonKain3]

I did not claim that I know Rin, or even close to it. Didn't I admit I am someone who hasn't played the game nor have read any of the spoilers? Thus, my only basis on character evaluation is the anime itself, and so far Rin in the anime has shown that she does indeed want to win the Grail war, whatever her reasons mgiht be (which was never explicitly stated yet in the anime, but not like it matters). But if she wanted to declared the true 'winner', she would have to eliminatel Shirou herself, since spells are ineffective against Saber.

As to why she decided to spare Shirou, only game players would know. So far from the anime, it's one of two possibilities.

1) She has known Shirou from the past, and has some sort special bond with him. Thus, she can't bring herself to kill him.

2) She knows Shirou can't bring himself to kill her, and so would use him as an ally until they're the last ones standing. Since Shirou can't lift a finger against her, either he'll give up (doubtful) or he'd be easy pickings.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Imperial Panda, I feel the same way as you do. If Ilya was as mature as she exhibits, then why does she still show child-like tendencies? That's contradictory. -_-;

However, seeing so much anime already, I learned to accept contradictory things. Anime never really was suppose to make total sense; all I ask of it is to lay minimal amount of clues. Which they did but I missed first time around.





I made the analogy to Magic, because really, the results are the same, even though the consequences for war is much higher. In competitive magic, either you lose the game, or you win the game. Let them have another turn to 'give them a chance', or play around with them 'just because its fun', would most likely result in your defeat. All you lose is some ranking points and the chance for a higher prize, but that's it.

In a war however, the stakes are THAT MUCH higher, because it's your very life that's on the line. This should make 'winning' an ever higher priority than a game of magic! Either you kill the person, or you yourself gets killed. If you even give one inch of hesitation, if you even give them one chance to get back on their feet, it might be you who's dead next.

You compare this anime to real life, but you're comparing it to EVERYDAY real life, which is a very big mistake. This is anything but everyday stuff, because it more resembles real life war. In fact, last time I checked, this show IS about a war. This is not some silly show like Pokemon in which your henchmen do battle with each other; the master's life is at stake, and so far none of the masters apart from Lancer's has truly grasped this concept.

Except that Ilya was treating it like a game rather then being 100% competitive. Its apparent that she does not even perceive Rin and Shirou to be any threat what so ever, and the battle seemed more like a cat playing with a mouse before killing it. If she was totally competitive then she would not have given the name of her servants out to her enemies, yet she did and even Rin commented on how much she was taunting them by it. From the way the battle was unfolding it was obvious as well that Ilya was in control and that she wasent even taking them seriously. She quit her game because something unexpected happened and she lost interest so the game wasent fun anymore.

[DragoonKain3]

That's exactly my point. Ilya is one of those masters who hasn't grasped the gravity of the situation (that her life is on the line), since she's still treating it as a 'game'. Which, IMO, is a very big mistake, since who here doubts she'll be killed by Shirou or Rin sometime in the future? Not I, but that's her problem sparing them earlier.

[justinstrife]

I don't see her dying. I'm not saying the option isn' there, but again you're basing this on the idea that the Master HAS to die in order for someone to win the holy grail war. That has been shown to not be the case. It was explained in episode 3, or was this not something you watched?

Really Kain, if the show is so bad to you, why are you watching it?

[Maids! Maids! Maids!]

Admittedly, it might not have been the most elegant way to go, but it was both an efficient and effective character defining moment. When she dismissively turned her back on her opponents, we learned a lot about her. I'm guessing she assumes she's going to win, easily, and nothing she saw during that battle gave her reason to believe otherwise. In her mind, there may have been no reason to finish everyone off right there and then.

Again, I'm just speculating.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I did not claim that I know Rin, or even close to it. Didn't I admit I am someone who hasn't played the game nor have read any of the spoilers? Thus, my only basis on character evaluation is the anime itself, and so far Rin in the anime has shown that she does indeed want to win the Grail war, whatever her reasons mgiht be (which was never explicitly stated yet in the anime, but not like it matters). But if she wanted to declared the true 'winner', she would have to eliminatel Shirou herself, since spells are ineffective against Saber.

As to why she decided to spare Shirou, only game players would know. So far from the anime, it's one of two possibilities.

1) She has known Shirou from the past, and has some sort special bond with him. Thus, she can't bring herself to kill him.

2) She knows Shirou can't bring himself to kill her, and so would use him as an ally until they're the last ones standing. Since Shirou can't lift a finger against her, either he'll give up (doubtful) or he'd be easy pickings.

You admit to having no knowledge of the game, so isnt it acceptable that not every character's motivation and personality will be revealed right from the start? We are at ep 4 of the anime if you still feel this way towards the end of the anime then this would be a valid discussion, but as of right now we have just been introduced to these characters and dont have enough to evalutate their characters quite yet.

[Mr. Guy]

Also take note about how Rin knew who Ilya was and that Ilya herself was well aware that Rin would know her. This says a lot about the Einzbern family in general and alludes to the fact that they are most likely VERY powerful magi. But then again, it also says something about the Tohsaka family because Ilya knew who Rin was as well

Haha, I feel my fellow game players pain trying to explain some things. We certainly don't like when something we enjoy so much is belittled because it hasn't been revealed yet or isn't made crystal clear. We want to say everything to prove that it does make sense, but have to restrain ourselves. So I just say to the naysayers... even if the series isn't looking too good now, or the motivations aren't explained to your liking, stick with it. The anime will explain all in time. On the off chance it doesn't; us game players can say everything after the series is finished

[DragoonKain3]

don't see her dying. I'm not saying the option isn' there, but again you're basing this on the idea that the Master HAS to die in order for someone to win the holy grail war. That has been shown to not be the case. It was explained in episode 3, or was this not something you watched?

Look at it this way. There are only three ways to disqualify a master. One is to defeat their servant, second is for them to use up all their command spells, and third is kill the master.

If even Rin, with all her expertise and experience in magic, still can't even manage a scratch against Berzerker, do you really think they can eliminate him? The second option isn't a valid option either, as Ilya would only use command spells if Berzerker is in trouble, which we can safely say isn't really probable.

So if option one and option two aren't plausible, then what other alternatives do we have?

Really Kain, if the show is so bad to you, why are you watching it?

Did I say it was bad? I said before it sucked because it didn't give clues as to why Ilya spared them, but apparently I missed the clue because I was paying attention too much on the screen rather than the subs at that time. After it was pointed up to me, I rated this episode an average. So where did you get the impression that I said it was bad?

It's not the greatest show so far, but the potential conflict between pitting friend vs friend (Shirou vs Rin) in a life or death match is too good to ignore. And it was hinted in the character thread that Rin isn't as 'do-goody' as you think she is, so I wouldn't put it past her to pull dirty tricks like my second reason as to why I think she spared Shirou, and thus want to find out if it's true.

And even if the show did suck that bad, I'd still watch it just to give it a chance. My favorite anime ever, Juuni Kokki, would score 1-3's for the first 6 episode since it was THAT bad IMO, but eps. 7 turned things around. If one shouldn't judge a book by its cover, then one shouldn't judge an anime by it's early episodes.


EDIT

You admit to having no knowledge of the game, so isnt it acceptable that not every character's motivation and personality will be revealed right from the start? We are at ep 4 of the anime if you still feel this way towards the end of the anime then this would be a valid discussion, but as of right now we have just been introduced to these characters and dont have enough to evalutate their characters quite yet

And where did I say that it isn't acceptable not knowing a character's true motivation and personality? All I asked for is reasonable clues, and the conclusions I have so far made is from those clues.

I freaked out when I thought Ilya's motivation in sparing the dynamic duo was because Shirou did a noble act, which makes absolutely no sense at all and smacks of terribly bad writing. But I was mistaken, because with the clue that she was 'bored', then the most probable explanation in that she was just 'playing around' is actually a plausible one, considering her child-like appearance.

[Maids! Maids! Maids!]

This is going to be interesting. The anime (and probably the game) gleefully mixes genres and potentially attracts two different audiences with different expections. One one hand, it's an action/adventure/fantasy anime, and they tend to be plot driven. On the other hand, it at least appears to have strong elements of romance/drama, and romances tend to be character driven.

I expect we'll see some heated discussions over the next few months.

[Cyz]

Originally Posted by monstert

Yep, the pacing of this show just makes me want more of it. But about this episode, I wonder why Saber hesitated when she had the chance to take a swing at Ilya.

Maybe she hesitated because Ilya was just a child?