F/SN UBW TV - Episode 17 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

It's actually the opposite. She got an amount of prana she brags about, got command spells and got her "watchful eye". In that case it seems far more likely that she'd be generous with her prana supply, since she is confident that NOBODY CAN betray her.

Indeed. Plus Caster wanted Archer to be able to stop Lancer, it's ridiculous to suggest that she deliberately gimped Archer when under normal circumstances, Archer can't even backstab her at all!

[Rising Dragon]

Like I said, if any gimping happened, it would've been unintentional on Caster's part, because as Archer explicitly said, she was no longer monitoring Archer. Of course she's not stupid to leave Archer unable to fend off another Servant, but I seriously doubt she's stupid enough to leave a known traitor at full power at any given moment. Caster would know all about how far one can trust a traitor.

[ChronoReverse]

Well, unintentional is possible. There's no difference to Caster whether Archer is at full power or not normally since outside of Rin unexpectedly cornering her, there wasn't anything Archer could have done to take out Caster after he submitted to her as his master. Unlike Gilgamesh, Archer can't resist the command seals and Caster's observation isn't something he could escape normally (i.e., during the magic duel, Caster wouldn't have lost track of Archer).

[Dengar]

If it was Gilgamesh VS Archer, instead of Gilgamesh VS Shirou, Archer would still win. "Gilgamesh wouldn't underestimate Archer that much." is bull, he totally would. Gilgamesh would win if he used Ea, but he would never use Ea until it was too late.

[Geburah]

Originally Posted by Dengar

If it was Gilgamesh VS Archer, instead of Gilgamesh VS Shirou, Archer would still win. "Gilgamesh wouldn't underestimate Archer that much." is bull, he totally would. Gilgamesh would win if he used Ea, but he would never use Ea until it was too late.

Against Archer just the fact he would be wearing his armor would make Archer lose.

Sorry but if you are a legendary soldier you WILL underestimate more a children with a knife than an average marine with the same weapon. The only way that Archer/Shirou would even stand a chance is casting UBW otherwise GoB plain owns normal tracing, and you are counting that Gil will let Archer live the time he needs to cast a 10 verses aria while spam tracing NPs like mad.

Just his armor allows Gil to tank Excalibur class ranked atacks for a while, not counting all the unfair crap he can pulls off out of GoB.

Gil recognized who was Herakles and how his NP worked completely after just a bit of combat so hes quite smart and adaptive, he was just pissed of that a child was infricting copyright of his treasure and his behaviour on that was almost forced with such amount of derping

Even with all that Gil derping he still had 99% chances of winning according to Word of God, so the only reason Shirou won was Gil PIS+ his Plot Armor. For example GoB is omnidirectional, yet he only atacked from the front allowing to Rho Aias to stop the rain long enough for Shirou to end his UBW cast and theres many other cases on that fight that looks like Gil had an anurysm with such ammounts of stupidity

[gn_X00]

^
I think we have never known about omnidirectional GoB other than from Berserker fight a few eps ago?
Probably it was never intended to work that way when they first introduced GoB?

[Geburah]

I think that was retconed later to make Gil even more OP but dont remember the source

[GreyZone]

It's pointless to compare ufo!Gil to VN counterparts. Better wait until the anime covers the scene with the ufo versions of the other abilities. For all we know they may have been buffed as well. For example, Rho Aias could possibly be omni-directional as well.

[Geburah]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

It's pointless to compare ufo!Gil to VN counterparts. Better wait until the anime covers the scene with the ufo versions of the other abilities. For all we know they may have been buffed as well. For example, Rho Aias could possibly be omni-directional as well.

On the VN Rho Aias was shown clearly as a shield like form, hard to imagine it like a bubble, its a shield, not a bunker xD

But yes, its better to wait how they animate those scenes, im curious about it to say the least

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Geburah

On the VN Rho Aias was shown clearly as a shield like form, hard to imagine it like a bubble, its a shield, not a bunker xD

But yes, its better to wait how they animate those scenes, im curious about it to say the least

I ment it more like being used as a satelite around the one who casted it. For example the caster could turn the shield to his back if necessary. Actually there was no mention in the VN that Rho Aias was in any way "static".

[Moekou]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

It's pointless to compare ufo!Gil to VN counterparts. Better wait until the anime covers the scene with the ufo versions of the other abilities. For all we know they may have been buffed as well. For example, Rho Aias could possibly be omni-directional as well.

Yep, as far as ufo!Gil goes, Enuma Elish is apparently just some wave that causes the ground to split open a bit slowly. It's mentioned it's supposedly Anti-World, but otherwise viewers have no reason to believe it to be that effective against other Servants since it seemed a plot device specifically made to counter an army. And they'll never find out!

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Geburah

Against Archer just the fact he would be wearing his armor would make Archer lose.

Sorry but if you are a legendary soldier you WILL underestimate more a children with a knife than an average marine with the same weapon. The only way that Archer/Shirou would even stand a chance is casting UBW otherwise GoB plain owns normal tracing, and you are counting that Gil will let Archer live the time he needs to cast a 10 verses aria while spam tracing NPs like mad.

Just his armor allows Gil to tank Excalibur class ranked atacks for a while, not counting all the unfair crap he can pulls off out of GoB.

Gil recognized who was Herakles and how his NP worked completely after just a bit of combat so hes quite smart and adaptive, he was just pissed of that a child was infricting copyright of his treasure and his behaviour on that was almost forced with such amount of derping

Even with all that Gil derping he still had 99% chances of winning according to Word of God, so the only reason Shirou won was Gil PIS+ his Plot Armor. For example GoB is omnidirectional, yet he only atacked from the front allowing to Rho Aias to stop the rain long enough for Shirou to end his UBW cast and theres many other cases on that fight that looks like Gil had an anurysm with such ammounts of stupidity

He's not a legendary soldier. He's Gilgamesh. Facepalm

Why would he pull out his armor just for Archer? Do you honestly think he'd acknowledge a faker, child or otherwise?

[Jaden]

The way I interpret it is that Ea has the ability to collapse reality marbles, fitting since it was not forged by man as a weapon of war, but by gods to shape the earth.

It's not that unusual, since all legendary weapons in the Nasuverse seem to have conceptual abilities in addition to their raw power. Gae Bolg seeks the heart, Gae Buidhe and Caliburn cause unhealable wounds, Kansho and Byakuya are attracted to each other, etc etc.

[Dengar]

It has the ability to destroy worlds. Not collapse reality marbles. Although as far as reality marbles are concerned that might as well be the same thing.

That said, Gilgamesh would never use Ea against Archer.

[Geburah]

Originally Posted by Dengar

He's not a legendary soldier. He's Gilgamesh. Facepalm

Why would he pull out his armor just for Archer? Do you honestly think he'd acknowledge a faker, child or otherwise?

Then why he uses his armour on Fate route? His enemies were the same but Nasu decided to heavy PIS Gil so he could be beaten mid way (Heavens Feel) or that Shirou had a minimal chance of winning (UBW). Honestly both Gil deaths were plain stupid and almost looked forced so the plot could continue (and on UBW Archer still had to finish the job for Shirou or Shirou would have to do a double KO with Gil as he did on a bad end).

In any case is plain logic, maybe he got a bit cocky with Berserker, but he played mostly safe with him and was very aware that if Herakles reached melee range things could go ugly even for him. So yes he underestimate his enemies most of the time but that underestimation is proportional to the enemy he faces. As much as he might despise Archer hes still a Servant compared with Shirou thats is a human with some rare gimmick that pisses him off as well. He will tend to play with Shirou more that he would have done with Archer

[Starway]

Originally Posted by Geburah

Then why he uses his armour on Fate route? His enemies were the same but Nasu decided to heavy PIS Gil so he could be beaten mid way (Heavens Feel) or that Shirou had a minimal chance of winning (UBW). Honestly both Gil deaths were plain stupid and almost looked forced so the plot could continue (and on UBW Archer still had to finish the job for Shirou or Shirou would have to do a double KO with Gil as he did on a bad end).

In any case is plain logic, maybe he got a bit cocky with Berserker, but he played mostly safe with him and was very aware that if Herakles reached melee range things could go ugly even for him. So yes he underestimate his enemies most of the time but that underestimation is proportional to the enemy he faces. As much as he might despise Archer hes still a Servant compared with Shirou thats is a human with some rare gimmick that pisses him off as well. He will tend to play with Shirou more that he would have done with Archer

Mongrel you expect the groom to not even get dressed in his full radiant glory for his bride to be.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Starway

Mongrel you expect the groom to not even get dressed in his full radiant glory for his bride to be.

..........As much as I like to refute that, the fact that it's Gilgamesh, in which in Zero his confession to Saber in the ending was basically swords to the face (not really a confession, but still trying to ask/make her about marriage), I can't really deny that possibility.

[MrTerrorist]

Rin knows Kung Fu. Impressive. And she almost defeated Caster.

[Guido]

The meaning behind this episode's title fittingly applies to Archer's twist, but I'll go deeper into that later.

First of all, I feel that both Kuzuki and Caster work together as characters when seeing them onscreen interacting with each other. Their dynamics suggest that they let on more than just being in a Master-Servant relationship. In fact, it's when you see both of them coming together that their potential as characters grows exponentially, that you might end up caring for them.

As far as Kuzuki let know to Caster, I interpret he neither curses nor resents the fate that turned him into that mechanical existence; still, if he was devoid of desires, nevertheless, he was still left to make choices of his. Then, I have no doubt he continued to finish what he started with Caster even after her defeat, because he chose to go all out to the end regardless if the end meant his demise.

Now, changing subject, if I want to figure out Archer I will say that based on his experiences and losses, he turned quite into a pragmatic character throwing away honor and pride and craving for results instead. However, if anyone would have gone through the same situations and did unspeakable things like Archer did, then would be no wonder that losing all hope and shattering your dreams would be the inevitably outcome.

Definitely, one of the best episodes of the second season, and I am craving for more because it stops at such a crucial cliffhanger, and the climax has come knocking the door on Shiro's doorstep.