Mahouka [LN/M] - Character Speculation/Theories: Mayumi

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Sinarblood

I think you are misunderstanding something on Parade. Parade beat Tatsuya's decomposition because it disguised even the information on Lina. However against Mayumi, it won't block supersonic hail bullets from hitting, Parade basically only stops any magic that directly interferes with the users information structure, which none of Mayumi's attacks do.

Also I actually don't think that there needs to be a HUGE distance between Miyuki and Mayumi like you do, basically just an enviroment with enough things to hide behind so Miyuki doesn't locate Mayumi right away, and enough space so that Miyuki doesn't simply hit the whole area with AOE magic. So a good amount of distance but not HUGE.
edit:


Huh, I will admit that it is the most logical choice when looked at the view of who is easiest to manipulate even if Miyuki would never let it be and I doubt Tatsuya would particularly prefer it.

Aye, I remember that passage with Mayumi and Mari thinking that, but I figure Miyuki and Lina aren't unbeatable in EVERY situation, and that there is probably a few where situations where a person stated to be in the top 10 of long-distance precision shooting can win against them, especially since she can have supersonic bullets go at them from multiple different directions. Basically if she has cover so they can't immediately KO her and she can hide I think she has a chance if she relies on Multi-scope. In a direct confrontation when she doesn't start behind cover or she isn't really far away I don't see her winning as much as she is my favourite of the three XD.

You do know disguising her information will make it so Mayumi's MCA can't figure out the coordinates of where she wants to target her magic right? Magic doesn't work if you lose sight of your target as stated in the Hattori vs Tatsuya duel.

[nosaer]

Lina is the strongest Magician in the USNA, and her specialty is combat Magic. We haven't seen enough of Mayumi's Magical prowess to say that she could be a good match for Lina. Lina's biggest weapon is the speed of her Magic processing which is even faster than Miyuki's. Adding Parade to her repertoir makes her incredibly difficult to hit with magic, or even hit at all. I won't say Mayumi can't win, since we don't know the extent of her abilities, I just find her chances of winning to be very low. The Saegusa house doesn't have a specialty Magic like many of the others because they are good at everything apparently. Maybe they're the jack of all trades house. This aspect would make them very versatile, as if one magic doesn't work she could easily switch to another just as powerful magic (If decomposition doesn't work Tatsuya is practically screwed). If Mayumi could beat Lina, it would have to be based around that idea.

I'd venture to say that Mayumi beating Miyuki would probably have to be due to something similar. As long as freezing Magic isn't involved then she might have a chance lol. But honestly I feel like the extent of Mayumi's power and ability hasn't been shown to us in the same manner as Miyuki, and Lina's have. All we know is that she has dominated in the 9SC for 3 years and is a very talented Magician. Her role during Yokohama didn't have her doing much fighting either...

The only serious fight I can remember her being a part of was when she teamed up with tats and Mari to go against Lou Gonghou (however you spell it), and for the most part she just used her ice bullets in a supporting role. Had she been alone I'm not too sure she could've won that match up though.

[Echizen777]

The most logical choice? The twins, since an arranged marriage is arranged,both parties opinions don't count. If Koichi is willing to marry one of her daughter, both fit the bill but if Tatsuya was the one to initiate it and asked for Izumi, he would agree IMO. I am suspecting something like that to happen with Kasumi later in the story . I don't think Izumi is easier to manipulate though despite her being a Miyuki fangirl she is pretty sharp.

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Hey i said logical choice, not emotional choice. Emotional wise, can you resist a 3-p with both best clans' girls?

Mayumi and Mari admited that everyone in First high is below Miyuki's level and that's why they had to personally see Lina vs Miyuki duel.
Since they are so surprised and curious to see whether there is actually someone equal to Miyuki (they firmly don't believe so).

I just point it out but hey, combatting is a different story. Keep your hope up.

No. As you said, combat is a different story, they said they can't believe someone of the same generation than Miyuki can rival with her. Both Mayumi and Mari are 3 years older than her. In terms of MP overall, Miyuki is superior to everyone in the story but Lina and Minoru it doesn't make her superior to everyone. Mayumi can beat Miyuki and vice versa depending on the situation.

Originally Posted by Sinarblood

I think you are misunderstanding something on Parade. Parade beat Tatsuya's decomposition because it disguised even the information on Lina. However against Mayumi, it won't block supersonic hail bullets from hitting, Parade basically only stops any magic that directly interferes with the users information structure, which none of Mayumi's attacks do.

Also I actually don't think that there needs to be a HUGE distance between Miyuki and Mayumi like you do, basically just an enviroment with enough things to hide behind so Miyuki doesn't locate Mayumi right away, and enough space so that Miyuki doesn't simply hit the whole area with AOE magic. So a good amount of distance but not HUGE.
edit:


Huh, I will admit that it is the most logical choice when looked at the view of who is easiest to manipulate even if Miyuki would never let it be and I doubt Tatsuya would particularly prefer it.

Aye, I remember that passage with Mayumi and Mari thinking that, but I figure Miyuki and Lina aren't unbeatable in EVERY situation, and that there is probably a few where situations where a person stated to be in the top 10 of long-distance precision shooting can win against them, especially since she can have supersonic bullets go at them from multiple different directions. Basically if she has cover so they can't immediately KO her and she can hide I think she has a chance if she relies on Multi-scope. In a direct confrontation when she doesn't start behind cover or she isn't really far away I don't see her winning as much as she is my favourite of the three XD.

Parade creates a mask on your Eidos so even normal magicians can't hit her easily. It countered Decomposition because Tatsuya identifies its target through ES by default however, Parade's fake mask is kept even in the Information Dimension. To break through parade with a magic aiming for a single target, you must locate the true body when the illusion disappears. AOE is the best action, that's why Lina suggested this to him when Tatsuya used the canister grenade but yes by using an hail of supersonic pellets in a certain area helped by Multi Scope she could certainly hit her, even Tatsuya can't dodge supersonic attacks. Both can win depending on the situation but I would say Lina is far more disadvantaged than Miyuki. With Brionac Lina's victory is guaranteed though.
Mayumi lacks fights but how she what she did in vol 7 shown how OP she is. So far, she didn't even use various magics despite being a Saegusa who have the genetics of 2 researches labs, her hail of pellets is Herd Control but she should be able to multicast powerful magics like her sisters, she is not BS. Even those 2 shown more of their magic than her. The best thing about her shots is that she can regulate the power, she could easily tear human flesh if they are able to shoot tanks to pieces.

Originally Posted by IceHism

You do know disguising her information will make it so Mayumi's MCA can't figure out the coordinates of where she wants to target her magic right? Magic doesn't work if you lose sight of your target as stated in the Hattori vs Tatsuya duel.

It works, otherwise AOE/Herd Control magics wouldn't be so useful. Only Cardinal Codes magics require visual confirmation.

[nosaer]

AOE magic was something I didn't even think about and I'm sure Mayumi has a few that she could use in a fight with Lina.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

i'm not sure what "no" means but i'm sure you are under the impression that Miyuki only relies on brute force to archive the results.

That's a big mistake:
-Hattori, Mari, Mayumi, Katsuto and Kirihara were all impressed and surprised by the way she handled the car accident in the first 9-SC.
=>They all acknowledge her experience in using her magic, not only her MP.
-That's also the thing make Hattori depressed the most: he used to think he can still win her since she is only an inexperienced first year.

-And come on, i said it once before but you guys severely underestimate the strength of military:
+)Lina is the real-combat-veteran of UNSA.
+)Miyuki, a combat-trained Yotsuba, who won against Lina.
+)If Japanese Defense College has 4-year- course, Lina would be more 4+3 years ahead of Mari.
+)Mayumi? Don't even bother:she isn't trained in combat, she goes to the University.
And you think high-school girls like Mayumi and Mari have more combat experience than those 2?

IMO, they are in diferrent classes: Mari and Mayumi are the best among the ordinary; Miyuki, Lina and Tatsuya are the best among the extraordinary.

There is no point in comparing them.

I never said Miyuki uses only brute force. I remember that car scene and I said that Miyuki's raw MP is superior to anyone in the series but Lina and Minoru. She dealt with the incident but it has nothing to do with her MP. Hanzo is immediately out of the equation because his MP will never be able to compare with her. having the highest MP do'nt make you superior in combat. Mari and Hanzo are ordinary, all the members of the master clans are extraordinary, Hanzo and Mari's natural talent in magic don't compare to any of them, had Mari not been a weapon genius she would stand no chance. And Mayumi's MP is very high even by these standards. Miyuki can absolutely not beat her in any circumstances, Miyuki isn't a magician trained for combat, she is an Ojou with training, just like Mayumi. Tatsuya's MP is low by the standards, otherwise he would be a Bloom.

Tatsuya, Mari, Erika and many other magicians have more experience in combat that Miyuki and Mayumi. In the same way that MP doesn't make you necessarily superior in combat, having more experience in combat don't make you better than a magician with a magician with high MP.

[Echizen777]

No, that's a standard for a guardian. Guardians are the ones with intensive training, Miyuki was in the dark about Tatsuya's training but knew it was very hard and that he killed people. Heirs are not treated the same, she was practicing magic like any normal magicians.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

"Well, the ground facilities are still used in order to test a magician’s performance, and the martial arts gym especially sees much use…… the smell of death the Major still senses, are most likely now the bodies of the magicians who didn’t make the cut (recently)."

"And so are the Guardians of the Yotsuba tempered, literally side by side with death. I see, so that’s why you people need so little training after joining the military; even the children are formidable."

=>It is still used to test both magicians and their guardians.
They first talk about Yotsuba magicians' death course, then Kazama links the "death" topic to the guardians.
Oh and all of them are child-soldiers, Fumiya, Ayako, Minami ,Miyuki and Tatuysa prove it.

That's how Ravagerblade said. Yotsubas are'nt treated like that. They do stuff learn like piano, learn ojou things, they do normal practice for magic, I remember a part with Miyuki wanting to show her prowesses to her mom. Guardians like Tatsuya and Minami have hardcore magical and physical training with their lives at stake. Miyuki's only physical training is with Yakumo and even if she did it, she is slightly better than the average magicians, it's only for her stamina. Mikihiko, Erika and Leo are better than her physically as mentioned in vol 7. Minami herself is way better than her in that category.

[Sinarblood]

Originally Posted by IceHism

You do know disguising her information will make it so Mayumi's MCA can't figure out the coordinates of where she wants to target her magic right? Magic doesn't work if you lose sight of your target as stated in the Hattori vs Tatsuya duel.

It depends on the magic. Magic like movement magic which targets the individual precisely does require visual confirmation, and if it is not countered magically, it is also undodgable if you are in their sights. That said it is because the magic effects the individual directly. Mayumi's magic effects water particles and shoots them in a specific direction, and it is the physical hail that is forms that hits the target.

Mayumi's bullets don't target the individual directly but fly in their direction, or else characters would never have been able to dodge even one of her bullets because they would be "homing" magic bullets since they are locked onto the individual, which they are not. Magic that doesn't have physical form (move magic and multi different magic attacks) could easily fail against Parade since they are visually targeted, but a hail bullet that is manually aimed does not have that issue, unless you are trying to imply that she always have to have a specific target in mind and can never aim in a particular direction without having a target in mind, which I don't think is the case. I feel that what she has to decide is more "where the bullets manifests, what speed it moves in and what direction it moves in" not particularly that it must hit target X (which WOULD make it fail against parade if aimed at Lina), since in the battle against Lu her attacks sometimes missed. Also missing a targeted individual have never been shown to make her hail bullets fail suddenly cease to exist which further proves it is not targetted at an individual. If you say that it is still impossible, all Mayumi would have to do would be aim for an area that the bullets must go through lina to reach (since Mayumi has aimed at inanimate objects before so it is possible), since they don't dodge obstacles and her multi-scope would be able to allow her to view an area even if lina is physically blocking it. That would make it hit Lina if she can't dodge out of the way, and Parade would be useless even if the hail bullets need a target and not just a direction. Parade couldn't do anything in that situation to turn the hail bullet back to water particles in gaseous state or otherwise cause the spell to fail in the same way it wouldn't make a large object that was pushed in her general direction by move magic simply stop moving the instance it came into contact with her parade, and I don't see any way to assume it would from its in text description.

So ya, I doubt parade has an effect on hail bullets, and even if it does, all Mayumi would have to do is aim her attacks at a target where the bullets must go through lina to reach, since the physical supersonic hail bullet would still effect her. So Parade either has absolutely no effect in this case or it is very simple to work around.

[Astraeia]

Aren't many people overrating Mayumi? She's good at her shooting magic, exceptional even, but I don't think she's never been described as overall extraordinary (for a daughter of the 10MC). I think her older brothers are more powerful than her? And her proficiency with her sniping has never been mentioned or implied to make her more dangerous (or useful) than her brothers, either... if she were, she wouldn't just be the third child of the Saegusa clan head, would she?


(which also answers the Mayumi vs Lina question: if "just the 3rd child of the Saegusa" could fight the very best combat magician of another magical superpower with equal chances....)

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Astraeia

Aren't many people overrating Mayumi? She's good at her shooting magic, exceptional even, but I don't think she's never been described as overall extraordinary (for a daughter of the 10MC). I think her older brothers are more powerful than her? And her proficiency with her sniping has never been mentioned or implied to make her more dangerous (or useful) than her brothers, either... if she were, she wouldn't just be the third child of the Saegusa clan head, would she?


(which also answers the Mayumi vs Lina question: if "just the 3rd child of the Saegusa" could fight the very best combat magician of another magical superpower with equal chances....)

I don't think she is overrated, she is mostly underrated even. I do think her brothers are stronger than her but it has never been confirmed. Being the 3rd child doesn't impact on her power however. Nothing confirms it but it seems the heir is always the eldest male when it's possible, not the strongest. Mayumi has been described as an exceptional magician even in the TMC, she just lacks time to shine, she just used a few shooting magics and Multi Scope in all the story contrarily to Miyuki and Lina. I find that being able to use easily supersonic attacks, which are impossible to dodge with ease are a good way to show how strong she is.

Spoiler for QUOTE:

On the other hand, the Saegusa and Yotsuba Families currently dominated the upper echelons of the Ten Master Clans and while Mayumi wasn't the next head, she was still a direct descendant and the eldest girl, so even though she was still a high school student, there had been quite a few marriage proposals even before she reached high school (which were not rumors, but grounded in fact).

As for Mayumi herself, even compared with the other Magicians within the Ten Master Clans, she still possessed "outstanding" magical talent. She was the subject of intense scrutiny, the veritable rising star of tomorrow among pure bloods.

Japanese magicians are superior to USNA magicians, she is only the best in her country. While Miyuki is one of the strongest magicians in Japan and in the world, there are a few in Japan who are objectively stronger than her.

[zerozeronine]

Mayumi is strong but I doubt she has a chance against Miyuki,Interference strength along and Cocytus,Miyuki will destroy Mayumi in a serious fight

[Astraeia]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

[...]

Spoiler for QUOTE:

On the other hand, the Saegusa and Yotsuba Families currently dominated the upper echelons of the Ten Master Clans and while Mayumi wasn't the next head, she was still a direct descendant and the eldest girl, so even though she was still a high school student, there had been quite a few marriage proposals even before she reached high school (which were not rumors, but grounded in fact).

As for Mayumi herself, even compared with the other Magicians within the Ten Master Clans, she still possessed "outstanding" magical talent. She was the subject of intense scrutiny, the veritable rising star of tomorrow among pure bloods.

[...]

Hmm... I didn't remember those lines. That being said, unlike Juumonji (Katsuto), she (almost~~, see above) never seems that laden with expectations. Which probably explains why there's so much talk here about how powerful she actually is. I guess in the end the writing is at fault?

(Then there's the fact that a significant part of the Saegusa dominance comes from their numbers. There's just so many of them. Which doesn't necessarily mean they're individually weaker, I know, but it doesn't help the impression we get)

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Astraeia

Hmm... I didn't remember those lines. That being said, unlike Juumonji (Katsuto), she (almost~~, see above) never seems that laden with expectations. Which probably explains why there's so much talk here about how powerful she actually is. I guess in the end the writing is at fault?

(Then there's the fact that a significant part of the Saegusa dominance comes from their numbers. There's just so many of them. Which doesn't necessarily mean they're individually weaker, I know, but it doesn't help the impression we get)

I agree. Saegusas showed nothing too impressive so far, unlike the others with their specialized magics. But Mayumi's skills aside we are starting to see their strengths other than being omnipotent they have the genetics of 2 researches labs, the twins even at their level can multicast 2 high level magics. I guess we will know more about their talents through the twins and also when the elder males will finally appear.

[Ravagerblade]

You guys still going on about Miyuki on this thread? *sigh*

Mayumi I think will be playing a more integral role in the coming volumes, why because I want her to! lol
aside from that I'd like to see her more in action.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

You guys still going on about Miyuki on this thread? *sigh*

Ravagerblade is right. This is the Mayumi thread. Any further discussion of Miyuki must go into the Miyuki thread. (The same is true for anyone not named Mayumi.) Failure to do so will result in off-topic infractions.

[nosaer]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

Mayumi I think will be playing a more integral role in the coming volumes, why because I want her to! lol
aside from that I'd like to see her more in action.

Well considering we keep seeing Koichi involve himself more and more in the story, the chances for more Mayumi Scenes is still pretty high I believe. She has gotten more screen time than any other graduating seniors so that's a good sign as well. I was hoping she would make another appearance during the competitions, but I don't recall seeing any other spoilers concerning her. Maybe she'll show up in the ancient City insurrection volume.

[NeutralZero]

Well Mayumi might enjoy that small limelight until Koichi goes down or his plans goes down...
But damn... why can't she be a second year at the start?

[ayander]

yey for more mayumi screen time

btw, i got a question regarding koichi and mayumi.
what do you think of their father-daughter relationship? are they more on good terms or bad terms?

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by ayander

yey for more mayumi screen time

btw, i got a question regarding koichi and mayumi.
what do you think of their father-daughter relationship? are they more on good terms or bad terms?

They are on good terms. It's just that most of their discussions we read are about family affairs . He would not create a shooting range solely for her and .

[nosaer]

Originally Posted by ayander

yey for more mayumi screen time

btw, i got a question regarding koichi and mayumi.
what do you think of their father-daughter relationship? are they more on good terms or bad terms?

I believe they are on very good terms with each other. The way she was able to argue with him about the media incident I believe shows some form of closeness. Otherwise she'd probably keep her thoughts to herself. The area where they probably aren't close would be in family affairs and ideals. but Koichi is very protective (we see the safety of his daughters is a high priority) so I don't think there's much animosity between them. If anything you could say that Mayumi growing up and becoming less dependent on him also as being part of any perceived lack of closeness