Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[azenable]

this chapter is really Meh

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by azenable

this chapter is really Meh

Vegeta wearing his Boo saga outfit is cool, as was the page where both he and Goku transformed. The rest was boring. How long are we going to spend on a mob character like Gas?

[Shadow5YA]

Why is Goku taking hits when he's supposed to be able to dodge everything with Ultra Instinct?

I've always disliked how they eventually disregard everything special about any transformation and it just becomes another show of brute force.

[GDB]

Will Vegeta finally get a W in Super, or will Goku snatch it away?

Spoiler:

Let's be honest, it's going to pull a ToP and have Granolah take Vegeta's place in the climax. Toyotaro can't help but have Vegeta job so others look better. This is the price he has to pay to make Vegeta the best actual character... he can no longer fight.

[DragonOsman]

I think GDB's right about Vegeta jobbing here too.

And yeah, how come Goku can't dodge Gas's attacks? I wonder if Gas is moving too fast? But is it even possible to move too fast for Ultra Instinct to allow you to dodge in the first place?

[Kanon]

Jiren could hit MUI just fine. It's not an auto-win form, if someone is a lot stronger than you, he will get hits in.

What I find a lot weirder is that Monaito was able to restore Goku and Vegeta's health completely. He could barely heal a flesh wound in the flashback. Kibito himself had a hard time restoring Gohan to full health in the Boo arc, and that was just when he was SSJ2.

I find it odd that Elec is so confident. Sure, Goku and Vegeta already had those forms when they fought Granolah, but they fought him one on one. Gas shouldn't be that much stronger that he's able to fend off both of them.

[azenable]

Strongest in the universal until Gogeta shows up.
Also don't like the drawing where MUI Goku seems to moving based on his brain rather than his body moving on its own. its not a fluent as its in the anime.

[DragonOsman]

I wonder if they're really going to fuse. They probably should, but they're reluctant about it. Granted, they're already fighting together despite that also being something they normally hate doing. I wonder if this is another change that came from the lesson they learned from Bardock.

And yeah, now that Kanon mentions it, how is Elec so confident here? He does know that Goku and Vegeta each Granolah one on one rather than together, right? Or since he had to ask Oil if they already had those forms when they fought Granolah, maybe he actually doesn't know that they didn't fight him two on one?

[GDB]

Also, wasn't he having trouble keeping up with Goku when he was just Blue? Not like he was losing, but he sure as hell wasn't having an easy time given how strong he THINKS he is.

[DragonOsman]

Maybe we can just chalk that one up to Toyotaro being inconsistent? And there's probably more where that came from.

[azenable]

New Chapter is out
Vegeta is crap as usual :<

And Goku revert to Ultra Instinct Omen as his 'best' form. Him firing a Ki Blast from the mouth is turning me off....

[Kanon]

Huh? It's not supposed to come out until Monday.

I've read the full summary though

Spoiler for Totally shocking stuff:

Vegeta jobs AGAIN.
Ultra Ego is like the perfect form for a master jobber like him, converting damage into power, yet he still can't win.

But Goku with UI omen does it with ease. Go figure.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Huh? It's not supposed to come out until Monday.

I've read the full summary though

Spoiler for Totally shocking stuff:

Vegeta jobs AGAIN.
Ultra Ego is like the perfect form for a master jobber like him, converting damage into power, yet he still can't win.

But Goku with UI omen does it with ease. Go figure.

Chinese site was up yesterday.

[henshinagogobaby]

Chapter 85 is out now:

Spoiler for thoughts on Chapter 85:

So, yeah, Vegeta jobs again. Honestly, stepping back from the hype of "Ultra Ego" and seeing how it works, Gas brings up a good point when he says that the form's manner of getting stronger involves letting yourself be beaten is incredibly stupid. I don't see Beerus or other Gods of Destruction letting themselves get whaled on before they start doling out punishment. They just ARE strong.

So unless Vegeta's Ultra Ego is like Goku's incomplete Ultra Instinct and can "evolve" further, this form is more a detriment rather than a plus. It lost in its debut against Granolah and now it lost again to Gas. The hint in the form being unstoppable involves being completely immoral (a la Majin Vegeta or Saiyan Saga mindset Vegeta) But I doubt that Vegeta would let his character be regressed for the sake of power.

Goku employs telekinesis. That should really be something that is exploited more haha.

Goku using Ultra Instinct: Omen as his "answer" to getting stronger is already screwing up the power scaling but let's see where this goes. Whis did mention before that Goku needed to make this form his "own"; honestly, Omen does look cooler than the completed version in my opinion.

And for God's sake, can someone PLEASE kill Elec already?! The smug prick is basically a shittier version of Babidi (a small guy that tells the bigger guy to attack and kill whatever displeases them) At least Babidi had evil magic to fall back on and can actually threaten Boo with sealing. Elec is just a coward with a ray gun, who attacks you ONLY AFTER you have been weakened or in surprise (killing a surprised Muezli, shooting at Bardock after his win with Gas, shooting Granolah through the back after being weakened through fighting Gas, etc.)

Why do the rest of the siblings keep listening to him when he's clearly shown that he doesn't care whether they live or die? (Next chapter will probably open up with Elec revealing that Gas only has minutes/hours left to live in exchange for all that power, which is why he's urging Gas to defeat the Saiyans and kill Frieza as fast as possible. Goku and the rest of the Heeters would probably call him out for that.)

Not even sure what Elec's overall plan is here. Say you do kill Goku, Vegeta, Granolah and then FINALLY move on and finish off Frieza. Then what? Rule the Universe? With what army? With what power/authority? Elec hasn't demonstrated that he's all powerful and his "muscle" (Gas) is on the verge of losing his life so enforcing his rule is going to last all about five minutes before someone more powerful than him takes him out. Power up the other siblings to replace Gas? Seeing how Elec is treating their youngest sibling, they are probably going to start thinking twice before listening to him again. Power himself up? He obviously cares about his own life the most, so why shorten it down for a power up?

Heck, this is not even factoring in the rest of the Z Warriors on Earth not taking the deaths of Goku and Vegeta lightly when they find out about this. Or Broly probably going to blow a gasket when he learns that his new friend Goku is dead.

Overall, a crappy villain.

[Shadow5YA]

Yeah, I don't really understand Elec's plan. If he plans on beating Frieza, why would he intentionally make Gas dispensable? What is he going to do after Gas dies?

[justavisitor]

lol, so Vegeta has changed from a grumpy 60 years old (he is that old right...he many days he spent in that time chamber??) to a masochist XD

And even if Elec kills goku and vegeta at the expense of Gas, then what? There are gohan, picoolo, and broly. Well to Elec's defense, he doesn't know that those characters exist, but to us, it's so painfully obvious that his plan won't work

[AndrewR5D4]

I don't think these guys can kill Frieza without help from the Dragon Balls, since even Gas needed that power-up to be of any use. Not to mention they could end up chewing up their lifespans and not live long enough to benefit from whatever they gain... Basically, these dudes are idiots who need to cheat to be of any real threat.

[GDB]

Once again, the main issue with Ultra Ego isn't that you have to let yourself get beaten to a pulp to use its power. At minimum, it's as strong as Blue or Royal Blue or whatever. The proper way to use it SHOULD be to just fight as normal, and as the opponent gets hits in, you get stronger rather than weaker, while they get weaker as you hit them.

Basically, you both start neutral, they slowly go down, while you slowly go up.

For some reason, Vegeta seems to think the optimal way to use it is to just get the crap beaten out of him so the opponent stays at neutral while he gets stronger. Which would be fine... if he had Android 17's stamina, but he doesn't. Even if he gets stronger, he still has limits. And he stupidly just keeps letting himself get pushed near that limit before he starts really fighting back.

Also, since when did Omen allow Goku to use Ultra Instinct but with emotions/without being calm? I thought the whole point of Omen was that it was a weak, incomplete UI, but still UI for all intents and purposes?

[DragonOsman]

Is Goku still using Ultra Instinct? Why doesn't his fighting style seem to agree with Ultra Instinct if he is?

And yeah, Elec's plan won't work like this. I know it was never meant to work from the beginning, but Toyotaro should've at least put more effort into keeping us in suspense there.

Edit:
@GDB: I forgot about Omen. But maybe Goku's new Ultra Instinct is different from Omen and really is just a new Ultra Instinct. His own. Omen doesn't have that barrier ability, after all.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Yeah, I don't really understand Elec's plan. If he plans on beating Frieza, why would he intentionally make Gas dispensable? What is he going to do after Gas dies?

The Dragon can only grant a single wish, right? Because I'm afraid of another asspull where it'll get revealed he asked for Gas' power to get transferred to him upon his death.

Goku kicking Gas' ass with an infinitely weaker form than the one he was getting his ass kicked in five minutes earlier makes no sense. At least Toyotaro hasn't retconned it has a time limit.