Morality in Code Geass? Do the ends justify the means?

[Synria_]

What are you still talking about changing Britannia from within?

If you are talking about having equality in Area 11 between Japanese and Britannians... It's not going to happen as long as Britannia RULES Japan.

Suzaku saying he will try to change Britannia from within is a hoax. I don't even know what the meaning is behind that ideal. I think he means that Britannians will treat Japanese people equally in Area 11 while maintaining governmental control under Britannia's rule? I doubt that will ever become a reality. As long as Britannia rules the area, the Japanese people will not like it.

Furthermore, you suggest that he take out the royal family and he, Suzaku, becomes emperor of Britannia. An ELEVEN become emperor Britannia? Britannia will be in the same shoes as Japan and same crap is gonna happen again, except in Britannia.

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by Synria_

What are you still talking about changing Britannia from within?

If you are talking about having equality in Area 11 between Japanese and Britannians... It's not going to happen as long as Britannia RULES Japan.

Suzaku saying he will try to change Britannia from within is a hoax. I don't even know what the meaning is behind that ideal. I think he means that Britannians will treat Japanese people equally in Area 11 while maintaining governmental control under Britannia's rule? I doubt that will ever become a reality. As long as Britannia rules the area, the Japanese people will not like it.

Furthermore, you suggest that he take out the royal family and he, Suzaku, becomes emperor of Britannia. An ELEVEN become emperor Britannia? Britannia will be in the same shoes as Japan and same crap is gonna happen again, except in Britannia.

Honestly, I think even Suzaku fans never really gave his "changing from within" plan a snowball's chance in hell.

[Synria_]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

Honestly, I think even Suzaku fans never really gave his "changing from within" plan a snowball's chance in hell.

That's because he never explained how he was going to do it. I only see a few possibilities, he becomes emperor, he is the lover of an up and coming ruler, etc.

With Euphie that was a big chance, but like I said, if they declare equality, but Britannian rule is still in place... technically it's still not equal.

Lelouch had the best explanation and he had the power to make it happen, but obviously as long as Zero is still alive, you can't count on Suzaku anymore.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Synria_

That's because he never explained how he was going to do it. I only see a few possibilities, he becomes emperor, he is the lover of an up and coming ruler, etc.

With Euphie that was a big chance, but like I said, if they declare equality, but Britannian rule is still in place... technically it's still not equal.

Lelouch had the best explanation and he had the power to make it happen, but obviously as long as Zero is still alive, you can't count on Suzaku anymore.

Actually his plan still fails even with Euphie, because she renounced her claim to the throne. There was never really any chance for him to create equality while Britannia existed. However, I think his overall goal/thought pattern was that if he shows the power of an 11 then more 11 would be accepted into society... which was just wishful thinking.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Var

Actually his plan still fails even with Euphie, because she renounced her claim to the throne. There was never really any chance for him to create equality while Britannia existed. However, I think his overall goal/thought pattern was that if he shows the power of an 11 then more 11 would be accepted into society... which was just wishful thinking.

...since Britannians don't even accept most of their own people (see all Viletta's overt references to her youth. >_>)

well, Euphie basically gave up on the dream of total equality, but there was always that small chance she'd obtain it at least on a minor scale, at least for a single city.

[Var]

Originally Posted by ashlay

...since Britannians don't even accept most of their own people (see all Viletta's overt references to her youth. >_>)

well, Euphie basically gave up on the dream of total equality, but there was always that small chance she'd obtain it at least on a minor scale, at least for a single city.

Which would have lasted until Britannia decided it had sevred its purpose of disarming the OOBK.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Var

Which would have lasted until Britannia decided it had sevred its purpose of disarming the OOBK.

you can't completely give up on it. That would make the entire situation less tragic.

Yes, it was probably doomed, but it wasn't absolutely doomed.

[Var]

Originally Posted by ashlay

you can't completely give up on it. That would make the entire situation less tragic.

Yes, it was probably doomed, but it wasn't absolutely doomed.

Well there was a chance, there's always a chance. I just don't think it was very large...

[Synria_]

I don't want to count that incident out. That uneventful power slip that Lelouch used on Euphie destroyed any hope. There is no way the Japanese people will forgive that massacre. God damn... my heart dropped at that whole scene. There could have been a more diplomatic resolution if Lelouch was more careful. But as things have turned out, the only way to end conflict is if Britannia drop all interest in Japan. No way the Japanese people will ever accept Britannians on their soil. Even with that, Japan and other countries may still want to invade Britannia itself, even if they told the world that they promise to settle down... they have too many enemies.

One way or another, season 2 is definitely going to show a nation become completely obliterated.

[WhiteWings]

Assuming that was the Ashford Academy we saw in the previews then at least some parts of the Britannian settlements have been preserved if not rebuilt. I'm pretty sure the people of 'Area 11' have their homes even more ground to dust. I don't know how the differences would be even bigger than before but I'm sure I'd see it soon.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

Well there was a chance, there's always a chance. I just don't think it was very large...

Ha, I actually whole hardly agree on this point with Var!!

[Blue_Mercy]

The political message in Code Geass is something that hasn't been discussed in awhile.

I think most of us can agree that Britannia is meant to represent the U.S. Which I find funny since Lelouch renamed Japan the United States of Japan.
The imperialism message is somewhat clear with our recent attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are nowhere near as cruel as we are being portrayed, but a television show making a political message is somewhat rare with the exception of V for Vendetta. Am I alone on Code Geass making this view or do others think so as well?

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, I wouldn't say exactly like the U.S. though I do see the overtones which refer to it. Perhaps it speaks of several nations throughout history.

What exactly would you call Britannia's government? Fascist maybe?

[DJ_RockmanX]

I dunno what Code Geass is supposed to be representing other than Neo-colonialism. It's basically a warped continuation of the old British Empire to me.

That's what I settled on a long time ago anyway.

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, but they are based in America and completely seperate from the British Empire. It could mean a lot of different things I guess.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Yeah, but they are based in America and completely seperate from the British Empire. It could mean a lot of different things I guess.

Didn't you read the alternate history though? Suppressing the American rebellion and being run out of the British Isles to the colonies and stuff?

It never became the America we know now, even if the writers may be trying to parallel the events of today.

[Dann of Thursday]

Yes, I read it and I know the whole story. It still seems like they may be looking at various different aspects of history through all this.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Yes, I read it and I know the whole story. It still seems like they may be looking at various different aspects of history through all this.

Off topic, but I once rewrote the Geass timeline in a report format. I posted some of it in the history thread, but never posted the finished version when I completed it a few months later.

Too bad I lost it in my hard drive crash.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

The political message in Code Geass is something that hasn't been discussed in awhile.

I think most of us can agree that Britannia is meant to represent the U.S. Which I find funny since Lelouch renamed Japan the United States of Japan.
The imperialism message is somewhat clear with our recent attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are nowhere near as cruel as we are being portrayed, but a television show making a political message is somewhat rare with the exception of V for Vendetta. Am I alone on Code Geass making this view or do others think so as well?

If I recall correctly it was stated that there aren't any political connections to be made (Or in other words Britannia is not meant to take shots at American foreign policy).

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

If I recall correctly it was stated that there aren't any political connections to be made (Or in other words Britannia is not meant to take shots at American foreign policy).

This is reason I always wondered why people viewed it as a political commentary series of sorts...