Macross Delta the Movie 2: Absolute LIVE!!!!!! Discussion Thread

[Tak]

For some reason, I am not surprised by the spoilers. Not one bit.

Saw that coming. It wasn't obviously clear, but I was expecting. Can't say I am 'glad' my expectations were somewhat matched, but you get the point.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Yeah, the end of the TV show kinda foreshadowed it, IIRC.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Tak

For some reason, I am not surprised by the spoilers. Not one bit.

Saw that coming. It wasn't obviously clear, but I was expecting. Can't say I am 'glad' my expectations were somewhat matched, but you get the point.

- Tak

Ironically, based on other Macross forums, and Twitter outside of Japan, the ones who are the most annoyed by the film are Western fans, if only because of the SDF-1 stuff included. And, of course, the Frontier short not really adding anything to beyond the final film. However, Japanese fans, or a majority of them, don't even care about those elements. It's a firm reminder of how Western fans believe lore is sacred and continuously question what becomes of something until they get an answer and don't like said answer. Fun times.

This only proves why Sword Art Online always gets new seasons and movies despite how Western fans don't like it. Delta is also proof. If it's popular in Japan, that's all they care about, lore be damned.

And yes, I do mean how Western Macross fans are pissed about

Spoiler for Megaroad-01 & SDF-1 stuff:

Megaroad-01 supposedly be vilified in the new film. So, you know, all the stuff we'd discussed in the past about how N.U.N.S. could potentially be corrupt based on Delta's TV series? Kawamori is likely in agreement, if this new movie is any indication.

_

Originally Posted by Jingdot

My laptops broken so I guess I couldn't look thorough enough but

Spoiler for WHAT:

They really killed my baby off? I just got some spoilers from somewhere else too but that's just so sad... Now I know why everyone had to cry so much - I'll probably do the same when I'll get to see the movie. It's really hard to let it sink in that they really let her die. I kind of expected it for her because she loves singing and once said that she'll sing until her rune will run out but I'm still heartbroken about it.

Thanks for telling me!

Spoiler for Don't know if anything I typed is a spoiler but I'll be careful in case of mods.:

As much as people on here speculated her fate was foreshadowed, according to a large number of Japanese Twitter posts, they did not see it coming. Meaning, the plot likely felt like it was going for a happy ending and nosedived in the last few minutes of the battle. It's hard to tell without watching it. Regardless, it's not really shocking anymore for Macross to confirm who won a love triangle and kill them off instantly or something similar (i.e. Zero, Frontier movies), so I'm really not surprised.

Japanese fans of the ship feel weirdly optimistic, meaning they understand something about the ending we likely don't without seeing it (or understanding their religion, to be honest). Because I have yet to run across a shipper on Japanese Twitter who is upset with her fate. And it's weirdly similar to when Frontier's second film aired. Western fans reacted quite differently to Alto's fate in the film vs. Japanese fans. And it's hilarious in hindsight.

You're welcome though.

[charles883]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

Ironically, based on other Macross forums, and Twitter outside of Japan, the ones who are the most annoyed by the film are Western fans, if only because of the SDF-1 stuff included. And, of course, the Frontier short not really adding anything to beyond the final film. However, Japanese fans, or a majority of them, don't even care about those elements. It's a firm reminder of how Western fans believe lore is sacred and continuously question what becomes of something until they get an answer and don't like said answer. Fun times.

This only proves why Sword Art Online always gets new seasons and movies despite how Western fans don't like it. Delta is also proof. If it's popular in Japan, that's all they care about, lore be damned.

And yes, I do mean how Western Macross fans are pissed about

Spoiler for Megaroad-01 & SDF-1 stuff:

Megaroad-01 supposedly be vilified in the new film. So, you know, all the stuff we'd discussed in the past about how N.U.N.S. could potentially be corrupt based on Delta's TV series? Kawamori is likely in agreement, if this new movie is any indication.

_

Spoiler for Don't know if anything I typed is a spoiler but I'll be careful in case of mods.:

As much as people on here speculated her fate was foreshadowed, according to a large number of Japanese Twitter posts, they did not see it coming. Meaning, the plot likely felt like it was going for a happy ending and nosedived in the last few minutes of the battle. It's hard to tell without watching it. Regardless, it's not really shocking anymore for Macross to confirm who won a love triangle and kill them off instantly or something similar (i.e. Zero, Frontier movies), so I'm really not surprised.

Japanese fans of the ship feel weirdly optimistic, meaning they understand something about the ending we likely don't without seeing it (or understanding their religion, to be honest). Because I have yet to run across a shipper on Japanese Twitter who is upset with her fate. And it's weirdly similar to when Frontier's second film aired. Western fans reacted quite differently to Alto's fate in the film vs. Japanese fans. And it's hilarious in hindsight.

You're welcome though.

Err the Delta movie 2 DID not vilify Megaroad for several reason.

Spoiler for Movie spoiler:

1. Lady M aka Megaroad 01 DID not order theft of Star Singer, it was NUNS rogue agent who steal Star singer ell under employ by Eplison Foudation. The reason Xaos and Lady M have Star Singer clone aka Mikumo was that Wright who employed by Lady M managed to stop rogue agent from stealing more cell. Then Johan, Wright's best friend and high priest decided to give complete star singer cell to Wright as he trusted Wright and Lady M will make good use of Starsinger and prevent rogue agent steal it again for their nefarious goal. Some western fan think Lady M the one order theft and jump to the conclusion. They did not read that Johan reveal truth and make record strsight.

Also The main villain, Cromwell is a frakking Conspiracy Theorist that thinks Lady M is the NUNG deep state blaming her for blocking AI and cybernetics progression when there is evidence contrary to his theory.

The Bio-Neural chip was banned or at least restricted as it tends to make AI prioritize self-preservation. It's like KARR in Knight Rider. Then Sharon Apple happened. Military AI that is sapient is illegal. However civilian AI such Cyberoids are legal. They do use AI but not sapient for military applications. Besides Sharon Apple there is Manfred Brando who died in VF-X2 but uploaded himself as an AI. He was part of the Macross Galaxy conspiracy. In a Macross Frontier drama CD Lufa created AI based on the personality of his friends yet they are stable. NUNS and SMS uses AI but they are shackled as they are not stupid.

As for cybernetics it is legal as certain characters like Jan Neumann and Aisha Blanchet have them but it is in certain states like Frontier where it is banned. It is less about putting down progress but discouraging espionage and human rights violations that Macross Galaxy. Plus cybernetic implants can be a backdoor for mind control.

So I think Lady M is less the one secretly in control of the galaxy but is a Think Tank stuck in a Fold Fault. Time is relatively different there that perhaps it is receiving and sending data that breaks causality.

[HirouKeimou]

@charless883: I said supposedly did.

Spoiler for Megaroad-01 & N.U.N.S.:

As in, Western fans in general have the opinion that everything in the movie about Megaroad-01 is unnecessary, ridiculous, etc. and it's soured their feelings towards the movie moreover because of it. So it's not about if Megaroad-01 is a villain, it's what it does overall to their view of the movie/franchise going forward. And you would know of this not only from Western Twitter (meaning outside of Japan) but also from Macross World forums. And it's kind of hilarious, because Japanese Twitter, and Japanese reviewers, as far as I can tell, genuinely do not care about this detail in the slightest outside of explaining it in spoilers.

Personally, I never cared; a franchise is subjected to change over the years, and it simulates real life too. So if Megaroad-01 had, in theory, become an enemy in the show itself, I would be all for discovering how or why.

As for N.U.N.S., well... I believe I've posted a lot in the past about how I basically figured it was a corrupt organization at this point in the franchise and now had more bad apples in power than good ones. Also, the villains in the organization get away with basically anything because they'll never be on monitor 24/7 and if something does go wrong, N.U.N.S. will simply cover it up and move on. In the end, it's looking like the Macross universe itself does in fact need an intervention for its military if it's getting so bad that it's breaking into all-out war with other species (i.e. Windermere).

Also, I'm throwing literally all of my response behind spoiler tags to be on the safe side in case mods consider something I said a spoiler.

[charles883]

Like I say Lady M are not viillain as so far Lady M action helping heroes and all those conspiracy theory on Lady M stealing Star singer DNA are false and already revealed and debunked in Delta Movie 2.

Did you actually think Lady M is villain?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I It's a firm reminder of how Western fans believe lore is sacred and continuously question what becomes of something until they get an answer and don't like said answer. Fun times.

This was pretty obvious when Macross evolved from SDF to PLUS, while completely sidelining Macross II in the process. The retcon witnessed in subsequent series should have been plain as day that Macross adheres to big plot-ideas, but beyond that? Meh...

- Tak

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by charles883

Like I say Lady M are not viillain as so far Lady M action helping heroes and all those conspiracy theory on Lady M stealing Star singer DNA are false and already revealed and debunked in Delta Movie 2.

Did you actually think Lady M is villain?

I feel like you've lost a lot of my previous reply in translation so I'm not even gonna touch this.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

Like I say Lady M are not viillain as so far Lady M action helping heroes and all those conspiracy theory on Lady M stealing Star singer DNA are false and already revealed and debunked in Delta Movie 2.

Did you actually think Lady M is villain?

Would it be so difficult for you to reserve judgement regarding a specific plot or character until after actually watching the movie?

- Tak

[Matts]

*brought back from the depths of IRL*
HAHAHAHAHAHA YES
Love you all, except the people who made me leave this fandom. Ssssuck it, lol. Cheers~

[magnuskn]

Hey, Matts. Stay around, Tak's group is getting a bit lonely some days.

[Matts]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Hey, Matts. Stay around, Tak's group is getting a bit lonely some days.

Ngl, I missed you guys. I just don't feel like the fandom is all that good to be in anymore. Imagine being a guy on twitter going after fanartists who sell their art at conventions because "they didn't give copyright funds" to Kawamori. Oh and, you know, doesn't like Delta = Trump supporter???
I've also gotten pretty critical of the Kawa in the last 2 years, especially after the first Delta movie. I read here that it wasn't as bad as the show. Only got the energy toether in 2020 to watch. I disagree. It was just as bad, but for different reasons. The 2 positives were 1. Hayate wasn't the stalking creep as portrayed in the novels and by extension the TV series 2. they removed the "let's feel bad for the space nazis" bit and kind of centered that around Roid being space führer and that was it.
Delta1 ends on a spectacular scale of just recycling old ideas, Mikumo singing Ai Oboete Imasu Ka and Freyja doing a daring leap of faith was just the Frontier TV ending again, which also had similarities mostly with Zero. And other stuff Kawamori wrote. He just keeps writing the same story, basically.
Oh and, Freyja is a weird amalgam of Ranka and Sheryl, but someone else pointed it out to me that she was more Sheryland Mirage was more Ranka, so AruaRan shippers who use HayaFre as comfort: lol.

I don't want to be too off topic, but my thoughts on D1/Kawaretrospective provide a much needed context for D2. I know I have like 3 people if not more blocked, and like. I blocked you for a reason. I won't see your response, because, get this, I don't care. And I'm allowed to. So are you. Don't get personal and I won't do the same with you. I'm not looking to pick bones with the mods, but it is hard to not get miffed when some random person gets overly personal despite a block meaning you are very clearly setting boundaries and they are crossing those. These exist on AS for a reason, and that's a good thing. So:

Spoiler:

- D2 exists solely to kill off Freyja
- Imagine being a fan of Delta, a stan at that, waiting 5 years for a sequel to the 1 Macross that has a happy ending, and having your ship killed off
- I'm not happy Freyja died. But I am kind of glad they followed the natural conclusion to the show. It gives you an idea of what Kawamori is like.
- Here's the thing though, this didn't need to happen. Delta could have just ended.
- That's why I don't want a Frontier 2. For all intents and purposes Kawamori gave us the best ending/s, with hope, cemented by himself in interviews (see Kiss in the Galaxy vol.4 interview). I would prefer it if he didn't mess with this. Because I don't trust the guy, for a reason.
- Walküre is genuinly terrible and yami-q-ray looks PreCure inspired, but PreCure is actually fun. Yamiqray sound like the singers trying to sound sonewhat more evil. I have garbage taste in music, so this is more just me. My issue with W is that Junna's singing is just screaming, Minorin trying to overscream her, and the other 3 are filler. So this with an evil filter is just. Come on. They also unintentionally gave YamiFre pinkeye, which is just hillarious. The designs look like they came from a different franchise.
- I didn't know how one could ruin Max, but they sure showed me.
- I really would love it if someone else got a shot at running the franchise, because Kawamori was out of touch when he made Zero, holy hell is he out of touch now. Frontier was a fluke and had more to do with everybody else but him.

[magnuskn]

Gee, I wonder who that guy on Twitter might be. ^^

And, yeah, I also am skeptical of Kawamori nowadays. I'll elaborate a bit in the group, here it would be off-topic.

[Tak]

Kawamori is very much like George Lucas, they both have incredible talent in creativity, but some of their ideas can get... err... peculiar.

On the other hand, the Yoko Kanno + Macross combo had always been superb. May'n's vocals also overshadowed pretty much everyone else who came after. He should try a collaboration with Hiroyuki Sawano next.

- Tak

[Matts]

Originally Posted by Tak

Kawamori is very much like George Lucas, they both have incredible talent in creativity, but some of their ideas can get... err... peculiar.

I can do a rundown of how many times the Shouji who is Kawa has recycled the same story, I'm on a roll anyway. At least Lucas has ideas. Kawa has the same idea, a lot of the time.
One of my initial reactions to D2 was as follows:
"It could be worse. He could have spirited the entirity of Walküre away into a timeless void like the girls in 0048. ....... Like he did with Sara and Shin. Oh Shi-"

Edit: For the record, I'm really just taking the most I can from this series. In this case it's making fun of it. I know that because of the Harmony Gold stuff, there are people in the fandom who take any and all discussion way waaaay more serious than normal, I get that. But nothing we do will change the perspective of whoever is handling HG, and nothing excuses bad writing. Something Delta is a prime example of. Nothing will save an entry in a franchise from criticism. And nothing should.

[magnuskn]

Actually HG and the Japanese rights holders seem to have come to a settlement some time ago (see the Macross Legalities thread), so we are kinda waiting if we'll finally get officially licensed Macross Frontier with real subs (and I mean the TV series, I know the movies already had subs).

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Actually HG and the Japanese rights holders seem to have come to a settlement some time ago (see the Macross Legalities thread), so we are kinda waiting if we'll finally get officially licensed Macross Frontier with real subs (and I mean the TV series, I know the movies already had subs).

As someone who owns the original Japanese release of the Macross Frontier movies on Blu-ray, I can confirm the original release did not have English subtitles on the disc. And I don't believe that changed for the 30th anniversary release later on.

As far as I know, Delta is the only Macross since Plus which has received official English subtitles. But it's still Japan-only.

Edit: FYI, whenever I wanna watch Frontier or its movies, I literally have to download a torrent or stream it on a platform for subs despite owning the original Japanese boxset and movie discs. I don't have that issue with Delta. If only they had done that while Frontier was airing...

[magnuskn]

Oh, okay. Someone had planted the idea that the Frontier movies had subs in my mind years ago, I guess. In any case, let's hope both TV series and movies are re-released worldwide and subs are added.

[Tak]

Macross Frontier 30th Anniversary Movie Box set:

https://www.macrossworld.com/macross...ish-subtitles/

You can still get it: https://www.amiami.jp/top/detail/det...e=GAME-0010432

製品仕様

映像Blu-ray Disc ＋ PS3専用ソフト
●英語字幕(劇場本編のみ)

- Tak

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Tak

Macross Frontier 30th Anniversary Movie Box set:

https://www.macrossworld.com/macross...ish-subtitles/

You can still get it: https://www.amiami.jp/top/detail/det...e=GAME-0010432

製品仕様

映像Blu-ray Disc ＋ PS3専用ソフト
●英語字幕(劇場本編のみ)

- Tak

So the 30th anniversary did have the English subtitles. Alright then.

Sadly, it was limited press only so as far as I can tell, it's not available on any retailer for sale, and the one I did find only ships in Japan. Also, if CD Japan is correct on this, the original price was $147. And I don't wanna think about how inflated it is due to the limited print. I paid roughly $260 for the TV boxset special years back and it had more content added than this. And since I already own the movies on Blu-ray, it seems insane to simply buy another set just for retouched footage and English subtitles. The price itself is a turn off.