Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero Anime General Discussion Thread

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

I checked out of curiosity. Haha, wow. That cringey thing was more a full projection of the writer than an actual review of the episode

What's worse is that if you look in the forums there in their preview topic, there are white knights defending the review and then bashing people who actually enjoy the show.

Some of this outrage culture is really getting out of hand if it's starting to infect the damn anime fanbase.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Calca

What's worse is that if you look in the forums there in their preview topic, there are white knights defending the review and then bashing people who actually enjoy the show.

Some of this outrage culture is really getting out of hand if it's starting to infect the damn anime fanbase.

How cute, you think this is new to the anime community.

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

How cute, you think this is new to the anime community.

Maybe it's just more prevalent. Between Goblin Slayer, one episode of SAO, and now this it's starting to become a chore to even try to interact with the community with certain shows.

[RDNexus]

Novels, Manga, Comics, Anime, Cartoons, Games, Movies, etc. There's cancer inside each of those media formats, and it's growing fast and dangerously.
As I've read somewhere before, if the world is to end someday, it'll be because of us and nothing else.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

I checked out of curiosity. Haha, wow. That cringey thing was more a full projection of the writer than an actual review of the episode


Father and daughter

I don't think it makes the point any better? What kind of good father enslaves his own daughter and puts a curse on her because of his own trust issues? Naofumi isn't the first kind of protaginst who has dealt with kind of theis, but those guys didn't lower their own moral standards and tactuful support an industry that mistreats peoplein far worse situation than him. It's hard to believe this was same guy that was betrayed just a couple days ago. It always going to be a stain on their relationship no matter how much better the perception of it gets as long as status is still there.

Anvient Magus Bride takes a smiliar route with Elias and Chise but Elias is at least called out for it (even if Chise was the one who sold herself) and has demostrated he is rather possessive person. He still removes the chain early on and learns no matter how ignorant he was about human relationships he shouldn't have forced his projections on to Chise.

Originally Posted by Calca

What's worse is that if you look in the forums there in their preview topic, there are white knights defending the review and then bashing people who actually enjoy the show.

Some of this outrage culture is really getting out of hand if it's starting to infect the damn anime fanbase.

I read the forum and don't seem much defense for Creamer impressions even among those who disliked the premiere. Most of them found James Beckett and Paul Jeasen better articulated the problems with episode 1 without attacking the author.

[Neki Ecko]

First of all, ANN reviewer is just like us and they have their own opinion even know that is harsh sometimes and they don't know what they are talking about (I got a time out from there because I talk about Code Geass review when it first came out). Everybody is going to have different point of views when it comes to this.

Did the first episode had some issues but I know that fun just started and if they get hung up by the first episode then that them.

[Sacredus]

No, they're all on their social politics. Since such people want attention, just ignore and enjoy show.

Originally Posted by Calca

One of ANN's reviewers (Nick Creamer) went out of his way to take potshots at the author of the Light Novel making assumptions of the author's intentions based on the first episode and even going so far to claim the author wrote what he did because he's angry at women.

Best part of it is... Author of this novel is female xP

Originally Posted by Applehell

I don't think it makes the point any better? What kind of good father enslaves his own daughter and puts a curse on her because of his own trust issues? Naofumi isn't the first kind of protaginst who has dealt with kind of theis, but those guys didn't lower their own moral standards and tactuful support an industry that mistreats peoplein far worse situation than him. It's hard to believe this was same guy that was betrayed just a couple days ago. It always going to be a stain on their relationship no matter how much better the perception of it gets as long as status is still there.

Some minor spoilers from story to answer this:

Spoiler:

He need slave to fight for him, since Naofumi don't have any attack power. Also, slaves can't lie to their master, and in his current state this is what he wants, someone who he can trust.
*mod snip*

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Anvient Magus Bride takes a smiliar route with Elias and Chise but Elias is at least called out for it (even if Chise was the one who sold herself) and has demostrated he is rather possessive person. He still removes the chain early on and learns no matter how ignorant he was about human relationships he shouldn't have forced his projections on to Chise.
.

Less projections, more he needs to respect her wishes and not pull stuff like trying to sacrifice a little girl because he got jealous. He did remove those chains literally less than a minute after teleporting her to his home, but the only one who called him out via punch was Angelica and he basically gave her a necklace with a tracking spell.

I don't know if you can really compare the two situations because Naofumi sought out a slave to fight for him since he can't fight for himself, as you saw with him struggling just to kill some balloons, whereas Elias was looking for an apprentice to shut people up, saw the offer for a Sleigh Beggy, and said "you'll do" before signing a check for a few million.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Sacredus

No, they're all on their social politics. Since such people want attention, just ignore and enjoy show.


Best part of it is... Author of this novel is female xP

Yea, that is the reason why I don't like them that much anymore, no more more off topic

Originally Posted by Sacredus

Some minor spoilers from story to answer this:

Spoiler:

He need slave to fight for him, since Naofumi don't have any attack power. Also, slaves can't lie to their master, and in his current state this is what he wants, someone who he can trust.
*mod snip*

Yea because there is going to be nobody wants to party with him at all after that false charge and there is only a few options and little time left until the waves comes plus he wants to return home.

[Erante]

I just finished reading the thread and i will avoid casting opinions about the story just with the first ep of anime >.>

Besides that, as someone that has finished reading the light novel last month as a form to avoid family contacts, i would like to put here my expectations, desires and laugh at it if the anime disappoint me later, i will also post some differences from light novel if people want it since the novel still fresh in my mind.

My main hope is that they place some of the world building from later volumes a little early on with the anime, since a lot of it could be used to make the story a lot less edgier and cringe worth than it was on earlier vol of the light novel. And also that they use some of the budget for "that" scene(in vol 4) cause the edge lord inside of me is asking for it.

With that sayed the differences from light novel are not that "big", they are important and has some characterization on them, is just not that much worth noticing

Spoiler for Comparison anime/light novel:

The first one is Naofumi age since he is 21 in novel, might not look that consequential, and you would be right if not for the fact that his age is used for certain arguments later in story

Anime also skip the part of "how" he saved his little brother, on which he just made him an otaku to avoid him become a delinquent

The book part was cut short since that part give a five later word to describe the others hero
with that being, "just","loyal" and "brave" with the princess being "bitch"(already talked about in the thead)

It skiped how naofumi was with them after they started talking about rewards, which is bit of a bummer since it start to show how easily naofumi goes with the flow and how he isn't that much different from them

The already mentioned that it skipped how every body else died in their world besides Naofumi that got transported thanks to the book

Note: the armor guy is definitely the best part about ep 1

Here is one for contention, in the light novel he was to be executed but because of "politiks" he couldn't be, hence why he was just allowed to leave

Note: The slave merchant is just as creep as the artwork in light novel made him to be, good job anime studio

I will not say the differences with the "buying" of the slave just yet since it seems it will happen in ep 2 then if people still want those i will just do another of these

Again i will avoid casting my opinion just yet, but so far is a pretty decent adaptation, i just hope they don't mess it up.

[Kuroageha]

@Applehell
No, isn't. That's a poor comparison. Just wait for more content if you're going for the slavery angle which goes beyond that. Your discomfort(?) is misguided.

[eiyuuou]

even the newbies dislike the shield hero while dismissing his circumstances and everything else, how no one bothers to follow him and the single one intentionally betrayed him and destroyed his reputation.
even ignoring the fact the human kingdom sanction slaves, for him to even get a slave, or how they even have slaves from the start.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Applehell

I don't think it makes the point any better? What kind of good father enslaves his own daughter and puts a curse on her because of his own trust issues? Naofumi isn't the first kind of protaginst who has dealt with kind of theis, but those guys didn't lower their own moral standards and tactuful support an industry that mistreats peoplein far worse situation than him. It's hard to believe this was same guy that was betrayed just a couple days ago. It always going to be a stain on their relationship no matter how much better the perception of it gets as long as status is still there.

That's a very narrow-minded viewpoint. I say narrow-minded because it refuses to even consider the nature of the world constructed. And it also refuses to accept the concept that people CHANGE and that change can have an impact on relationships. Yes, she starts out in a sense as a tool, a proxy weapon and the only source of firepower he can find that he doesn't feel will turn around and shove that sword through his back. That doesn't mean his treatment will be horrible or that he'll continue to maintain this attitude toward her. If he doesn't treat her with excessive cruelty, and he learns to appreciate and value her and only keep the slavery status as a sort of unused crutch, then I don't see why it couldn't work. Especially if the girl is perceptive enough to figure out that he's doing this because he can't trust anyone else. Heck, we haven't even seen him buying her yet and we're already talking like it's been confirmed he treats her this way all the way through.

Dark sides can make a hero much more compelling. Weakness and pain that makes acts of good difficult can make a character's acts of kindness shine all the more because it's a deliberate and difficult choice or a nature that can't be halted, not just the obvious choice made without difficulty. This guy is dealing with a great deal of pain from this sudden betrayal, and yes he's going to make some questionable decisions. But that doesn't mean he's automatically a bad hero.

Also, to address something people mentioned previously, questioning why they call it a "matriarchy" but have a king on the throne, I'd say there's three possibilities that would certainly fit:
1: The queen died and her husband was made "king" until the heir has grown old enough and gained the political influence necessary to officially take the crown.
2: The queen is incapacitated and the king is acting as administrator until either she recovers or a decision is made to pass the crown to the heir.
3: The queen is presently away for one reason or another and the king is acting in her stead until she returns.

In all three cases this places an extra negative light on the king, making his presumptive behavior potentially fall into areas ranging from overreaching his authority all the way to treason and attempted usurpation.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

First of all, ANN reviewer is just like us and they have their own opinion even know that is harsh sometimes and they don't know what they are talking about

That still just enforces the fact that their opinion is utter garbage. I'm getting really sick and tired of the moral outrage police trying to ruin anime. First it was the bible thumpers now it's the virtue signalers both parties just want something complain about.

Originally Posted by xrick

Novels, Manga, Comics, Anime, Cartoons, Games, Movies, etc. There's cancer inside each of those media formats, and it's growing fast and dangerously. As I've read somewhere before, if the world is to end someday, it'll be because of us and nothing else.

At the rate this shit is spreading every kind of entertainment and media will become completely bland, uninteresting, and sanitized with nothing worth watching or reading anymore because everyone will try playing it safe in a effort not to offend anyone. It's a really bleak future on the horizon and I would rather die then live in it.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

That's a very narrow-minded viewpoint. I say narrow-minded because it refuses to even consider the nature of the world constructed. And it also refuses to accept the concept that people CHANGE and that change can have an impact on relationships. Yes, she starts out in a sense as a tool, a proxy weapon and the only source of firepower he can find that he doesn't feel will turn around and shove that sword through his back. That doesn't mean his treatment will be horrible or that he'll continue to maintain this attitude toward her. If he doesn't treat her with excessive cruelty, and he learns to appreciate and value her and only keep the slavery status as a sort of unused crutch, then I don't see why it couldn't work. Especially if the girl is perceptive enough to figure out that he's doing this because he can't trust anyone else. Heck, we haven't even seen him buying her yet and we're already talking like it's been confirmed he treats her this way all the way through.

Dark sides can make a hero much more compelling. Weakness and pain that makes acts of good difficult can make a character's acts of kindness shine all the more because it's a deliberate and difficult choice or a nature that can't be halted, not just the obvious choice made without difficulty. This guy is dealing with a great deal of pain from this sudden betrayal, and yes he's going to make some questionable decisions. But that doesn't mean he's automatically a bad hero.

Also, to address something people mentioned previously, questioning why they call it a "matriarchy" but have a king on the throne, I'd say there's three possibilities that would certainly fit:
1: The queen died and her husband was made "king" until the heir has grown old enough and gained the political influence necessary to officially take the crown.
2: The queen is incapacitated and the king is acting as administrator until either she recovers or a decision is made to pass the crown to the heir.
3: The queen is presently away for one reason or another and the king is acting in her stead until she returns.

In all three cases this places an extra negative light on the king, making his presumptive behavior potentially fall into areas ranging from overreaching his authority all the way to treason and attempted usurpation.

I think it does make him an automatically bad hero and person. He was betrayed in an extreme fashion. So showing a negative response to all that has sensible qualities to it. And it makes him an interesting character to see where he goes. But interesting does not equal being a good person or a good hero. That he's signing up for this slavery angle makes him a bad hero. That's it.

Now he can 'rise up' from that. But that's something he has to actually do. And even if the girl understands that he's doing the slavery thing because he can't trust people...that would only reflect good on her. It still reflects poorly on him for his lack of trust in others and still makes him a bad hero.

There is room for Naofumi to grow here. But whether he does or not will determine if he stays a bad person and hero. But it doesn't take away that there is nothing respectable about where he is right now in the story. You can empathize and sympathize with a bad person. I feel bad for what he's gone through. But I'm not going to say he's a good person for going where he is right now.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Sacredus

No, they're all on their social politics. Since such people want attention, just ignore and enjoy show.


Best part of it is... Author of this novel is female xP


Some minor spoilers from story to answer this:

Spoiler:

He need slave to fight for him, since Naofumi don't have any attack power. Also, slaves can't lie to their master, and in his current state this is what he wants, someone who he can trust.
*mod snip*

IIRC the author's gender has not been confirmed anywhere. It's mot uncommon for male writers to use female pseudonyms. Konosuba's author does this for example and people thought he was woman for awhile.

Originally Posted by Twi

Less projections, more he needs to respect her wishes and not pull stuff like trying to sacrifice a little girl because he got jealous. He did remove those chains literally less than a minute after teleporting her to his home, but the only one who called him out via punch was Angelica and he basically gave her a necklace with a tracking spell.

I don't know if you can really compare the two situations because Naofumi sought out a slave to fight for him since he can't fight for himself, as you saw with him struggling just to kill some balloons, whereas Elias was looking for an apprentice to shut people up, saw the offer for a Sleigh Beggy, and said "you'll do" before signing a check for a few million.

My point with Elias was that the scene exists to show even buying her and partpicanting the auction was wrong. Having a reason for doing something moral questionable doesn't change the fundemental issue, just only degrees of what it is done and if acceptable or not. Elias is also not human matters so he lack sentisvely to that is justified.

I also aware of reasons why Naofumi does it but they are self-serving and the story was written with the intentation of railroading him into it. Melomarc is not a hivemind tho this is shown early on with the backsmith who could have continued hating him and later in story. So writing someone sympathetic to him early on or just have him escape the country was entirely possible. The only reason do this way was due to edge and stuff like being the all rage Narou back then. If this was make Naofumi just as bad as some of people who wronged him, cool but if he can still get on his high horse about his righteous anger without a sense of irony than that's a problem.

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

@Applehell
No, isn't. That's a poor comparison. Just wait for more content if you're going for the slavery angle which goes beyond that. Your discomfort(?) is misguided.

Look if you can buy into fine, but we are talking about slavery here, one if few truly inherently evil acts that a person can inflict. There shouldn't be an issue having problem with regardless of the reason because not reason go enough for it. Atleast with something like murder self-defense exists which justification can sole made safeguarding one's own life from an aggressor without involving anyone else. Things eventually working out of bad situation (and because they have to make it platable) doesn't absolve the crisicism of situation playing out like that to start with.

Originally Posted by eiyuuou

even the newbies dislike the shield hero while dismissing his circumstances and everything else, how no one bothers to follow him and the single one intentionally betrayed him and destroyed his reputation.
even ignoring the fact the human kingdom sanction slaves, for him to even get a slave, or how they even have slaves from the start.

The problem isn't that slavery exist or its legality. The problem lies with main character who is from a modern world partaking in it at all. At very least without some criticsm in-universe. Most good anti-hero stories do this even if the hero take these questionable actions because they have hard. I won't necessarily say this damns him to hell or anything depending what he does afterword, but it a least should paint him a bad light false accustions aside.

Not mention Naofumi trust issues very exterme in their progress to begin with because he bases it all one person he only knew for a day than decided everyone including some malnourished girl is that same. So becames very much his choice in the end to keep that kind of relationship.

[felix]

I agree with the sentiment, that you can certainly transition from slavery into a less problematic relationship, and you can also not transition and be fine, like for example have a love story where the husband is openly extraordinary possessive (and powerful) overlord and the female protagonist is trying either to run away or turn the tables on who owns who. It's been done, it works. But that's not the problem here.

In this particular case, and similar series, the issue is not "are they lovely dovely right now?" or "can they be lovely lovely?" (yes of course they can) the issue is "does the slave even have a choice?" And when I say "choice" I don't mean the the characters feelings, I mean it in the sense that if we were to give the character the feeling of rejection does that equal completely utter bad end for her? (death, sold back, abandoned, beaten, abused, etc) If only one side of the coin ends up good for her, is that really a choice?

This is fundamentally the problematic truth behind slavery (both in narrative and real life), you have to be on the "good side" (of the master) or you risk severe repercussions. As such, it's very hard to read into how legitimate the good side even is. I believe why some people in particular find it hard to swallow is that once you realize some of these stories only really want to deal with this "ideal slave" scenario it all comes off as pandering. In particular when the world building presents slavery in every other instance as very dark and anything but a happy scenario; usually as a foil to the hero's noble character, while brushing aside aforementioned choice issues.

With out either a feeling of rejection, will for freedom, or some other gimmick that's in direct opposition or contrast to the slavery or pseudo-slave situation it's not possible to achieve what I mentioned earlier, about having a slave-master situation and transitioning it into an interesting relationship.

For example, the daughter father relationship which got mentioned a few times now, it's just not very interesting if the daughter is just happy-all-the-time / in-love-with-her-master, and also his servant, under magical restrictions that apply unknown amounts of pain if she lies and also potentially at risk of far far greater damage in some sort of fallout. And I mean in the sense it's not very daughter-y. I know it looks similar to him adopting her. And it can be, he just needs to remove the slave seal. But so long as the seal remains, if she even survives in a fallout is questionable (because the slave seal might just outright kill her). Disowning or abandoning her on the street is actually among the more positive outcomes.

Also this argument that he's done it because he's on edge is fine and all narrative wise but just want to point out, as a note to what I said above, this edge lord status is not a very good excuse since if you follow the logical conclusion to it's end, if things don't work out then he would likely be selling her or sending her back to the slave tent. Both of which are very cruel. If you write a character like this I feel you've doomed him to be at least half-asshole for the rest of the series (redemption pretty mandatory).

On a tangent with regard to him being a father figure, since I do find the concept of a father with a slave-daughter interesting. Given he's a modern man, and also presented as pretty crafty, it's unlikely he isn't aware of stockholm syndrome. So the question is would a proper father figure allow for even unintended brainwashing of his supposed daughter to happen, be it in his favor or otherwise?

Originally Posted by Twi

I don't know if you can really compare the two situations because Naofumi sought out a slave to fight for him since he can't fight for himself, as you saw with him struggling just to kill some balloons, whereas Elias was looking for an apprentice to shut people up, saw the offer for a Sleigh Beggy, and said "you'll do" before signing a check for a few million.

Also Elias, while adorable in his antics, is a LITERAL monster, with monster urges and such, and monster logic or lack thereof. I don't think Naofumi is that bad that he's reduced to a state where he has problems understanding what human emotions are.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I think it does make him an automatically bad hero and person. He was betrayed in an extreme fashion. So showing a negative response to all that has sensible qualities to it. And it makes him an interesting character to see where he goes. But interesting does not equal being a good person or a good hero. That he's signing up for this slavery angle makes him a bad hero. That's it.

Now he can 'rise up' from that. But that's something he has to actually do. And even if the girl understands that he's doing the slavery thing because he can't trust people...that would only reflect good on her. It still reflects poorly on him for his lack of trust in others and still makes him a bad hero.

There is room for Naofumi to grow here. But whether he does or not will determine if he stays a bad person and hero. But it doesn't take away that there is nothing respectable about where he is right now in the story. You can empathize and sympathize with a bad person. I feel bad for what he's gone through. But I'm not going to say he's a good person for going where he is right now.

That was my point. A hero isn't where a person begins, it's where they end. Luke Skywalker was no hero when he started out. Most heroes aren't. Dismissing this as bad and uninteresting because the person started low is ridiculous to me. A dove that can fly isn't impressive.

Additionally, to Applehell, it's kind of cruel to put down a character's actions as "self-serving" when they're literally necessary for survival. He's not just looking for a way to make life easier, he's looking for a way to survive this massive disaster that he knows is right around the corner. You may want to declare "slavery is a special kind of evil" but this really is self-defense, just like with murder. The danger may be a while away, but he still has no choice but to find a way to protect himself and absolutely no reason to trust anyone who has the ability to deceive or hurt him. And he barely has any money; the trader doesn't say anything about price in this ep pair but it's fair to assume that a sick child will be at the bottom. No matter how much The story also wasn't "designed" to "railroad" him into such a position, it's simply the natural outcome of the story as it is. It isn't contrived or warped around to make it happen. Not to mention that it's far too soon to dismiss it with claims of him not receiving any criticism or anything. You don't complain that a person didn't get any consequences for his actions when the ep ends before any consequences can happen.

And Felix, while you could have a point or two if the story follows certain roads, again the story hasn't even begun to go there yet so dismissing it as uninteresting and lacking in choice is jumping the gun. Yes, a story where the girl has no choice and is never given a choice and is simply lucky to be with a master who doesn't treat her like some would isn't interesting. And if down the line it turns out that she never has any choice or opportunity at all then it'll be dull, but we can at least wait a few episodes to make that judgment can we not?

And if you want to claim concerns about Stockholm Syndrome, it's just as plausible that he could develop Lima Syndrome, where the captor/slaver develops feelings of sympathy or attachment to his captive. And either way there are many factors involved, enough that, while expressing concerns is understandable, it doesn't feel right to dismiss this show as going down an uninteresting path. There are good and bad paths this can take, and only time will tell which way it goes. At least time will tell for those that haven't read the source material and those of us that have can find some other place to debate it.

[felix]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

And Felix, while you could have a point or two if the story follows certain roads, again the story hasn't even begun to go there yet so dismissing it as uninteresting and lacking in choice is jumping the gun. Yes, a story where the girl has no choice and is never given a choice and is simply lucky to be with a master who doesn't treat her like some would isn't interesting. And if down the line it turns out that she never has any choice or opportunity at all then it'll be dull, but we can at least wait a few episodes to make that judgment can we not?

I think you're misunderstanding. I don't have a problem with the series I just think the gimmick is lame for character development.

With or with out it the other parts of the series stand up fine, such as the inevitable revenge plot and the "how the fuck am I going to survive this?".

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to get across. The down the road thing you speak of has to be in the next 2 episodes at most (and that's if we dont get some huge timeskips). Otherwise it doesn't matter if she "loves" him because it's impossible to tell if it's actual love or she's been "successfully trained" You can choose to believe it's love, but it's just as valid to believe she's been taken advantage of. For the record, not tacking sides, both are valid, it's just impossible to distinguish. (I actually do hope he dissolves the seal)

I suppose magical slavery is a very deceptive plot device...

Its fundamentally no different at all then if he were to (literally) have a knife to her neck 24/7 and a whip on hand for whenever she refuses. But because it's all magical and invisible (including no wounds take place, just pain) the characters immediate death at any point by the protagonists whims isn't very apparent and the little lighting effect doesn't really have the same emotional impact as the protagonist whipping her whenever she disobeys. I think the fact the system is automatic also works to discredit the protagonist of any guilt, even though as the one holding the slave seal he is by all means fully responsible for any hardships she encounters. His choice to do nothing, is a choice to make her suffer.

I suppose most people read into these magical slavery seals the same way they read into world rules (such as Naofumi getting zapped when he touches any weapon), so when she gets hurt for not following orders it's interpreted as her fault. But the problem is these weren't set by some omnipotent nameless entity and also they're not non-removable.

It's an interesting way to go about it I suppose. So long as the victim takes the blame all the rape-y vibes get diffused. So even if the victim is broken down by the protagonist most would not reject any lovely-dovy feelings between the protagonist and the victim. In fact the more lewd the victim gets the more blame is redirected. The slavery is then the victims burden and the slave owner just gets some didn't have a choice and didn't really do anything wrong get out of jail free card.

[Kuroageha]

Now that's some projection.