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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
These shows are often spoken of because they were successful back when they first aired.
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Which is fine. What I'm saying is that I think anime before 1981 suck and that there's no reason for contemporary audiences to go back to them. If you are interested in old anime like I was, go check them out to come to your own conclusion.
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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
Aesthetics change over time and making blanket categorical statements like "they suck" implies that they have always sucked and always will suck, as well as absolutely ignoring the cultural and chronological zeitgeist in which they were produced.
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No, it does not. I'm saying I think they suck. I did this four years ago and I still think so today. Maybe audiences back then liked them. Maybe audiences in the future will like them. It doesn't matter to me, actually. I'm not speaking for other people when I say those old anime suck.
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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
You don't judge Shakespeare by modern film standards and find it wanting because it is designed to be played out on a stage and not on a big screen with huge explosions. You take into account the era in which the works were written.
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No, I do not. I judge entertainment by whether or not I find it entertaining today. I don't care what audiences back then thought of it. This might surprise you, but I watch entertainment for entertainment. I also watch older stuff because of a general interest in the medium. But if I think the old stuff sucks, I will say it sucks and when I think the old stuff is good, I will say it is good. I won't make up a bunch of reasons putting old stuff on a pedestal of "well, we have to take the era this was made into account". No. No we do not. It's entertainment. If it fails to entertain us it sucks. It doesn't matter how many other people like or dislike it. The important point is whether or not I like it, because this is supposed to be my entertainment. Not a history lesson. I don't know whether other people will like or dislike it, so I won't be speaking for them. But I certainly will recommend others stuff I like and tell them it's fine to not see things I disliked. They can make of that what they want.
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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
Saying that asking people to go back and watch old stuff makes people hate it is a total straw man.
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What I'm saying is that entertainment has to be judged as entertainment and if you force people to make a bunch of concessions because it is old and you have to consider the time it was made you are essentially just making excuses as to why it isn't all that much fun to "engage" with today. You are turning entertainment into a history lesson that way. Maybe the old stuff is still fun to watch. Maybe it isn't. The answer will differ from person to person. In my opinion anime from before 1981 suck. Someone else can have a different opinion on this matter.
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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
It is possible for people to learn to appreciate these things without having nostalgia for them.
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It certainly is. I watched some great movies from the 1920s that I can still recommend today. But anime from before 1981 suck. In my opinion, anyway. Or maybe there is that one hidden gem that I just haven't seen yet.
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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
but implying that having that sophistication is synonymous with "putting it on a pedestal and shielding it from casual criticism," and an intellectually dishonest dismissal of others' criticism of your judgments.
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Why do you feel like judging my opinions about entertainment anyway? That's pure arrogance. First you are shielding old anime by saying that you have to consider them within their time, but then pretend that is not putting them on a pedestal. If I watch an anime from last year and say it sucks, but you liked it, are you going to just come to the conclusion that we have different tastes or would you also be telling me that I'm not allowed to dislike the show?
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Originally Posted by Fvlminatvs
No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to watch anything against their will.
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I was thinking about kids in school not having a choice about having to read ancient texts. It's fine if you recommend something, but putting it inside the curriculum is going too far. As long as people have a free choice they likely won't come to hate something. Because if you're not actually forced to engage with something you dislike, hate cannot build. You can just stop engaging with it. Which you can't really do in school.
Incidentally, I was also doing this with this thread - stopping engaging with it; but stumbled upon it again today and re-read the last page. Even with the distance in time, I am still baffled by your take on what I said.
2022-05-06, 16:34
