Macross Delta - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Tak

Speaking of which, do the Jeniuses have any male descendants?

None that we know of. Unless Max had clones and they had children of their own.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

None that we know of. Unless Max had clones and they had children of their own.

Yeah, that family picture in Macross 7 is still haunting me.

And they just had to adopt yet another daughter in M3... really Max?

- Tak

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Tak

Yeah, that family picture in Macross 7 is still haunting me.

And they just had to adopt yet another daughter in M3... really Max?

- Tak

I'd like to think that was Milia being you're so cute I'm gonna take you home.

But Max did bring home Gubaba from a death world. He probably can't do that with Frontier's strict environmental laws. Good thing he only brought one as those likely multiply like rabbits.

Speaking of invasive species Fold Bacteria has become one for Sub-Protoculture either deliberately or by accident through trade and migration interactions of fleets and colonies.

It could be also because of vaccines like the ones used on Zola bacteria which come from Galactic Whales.

I imagine also formerly Vajra held worlds are now open for colonization.

[magnuskn]

While I really liked this episode, I thought it was left unclear why exactly Freyja was reacting so strongly and worriedly about the rumors of Mirage and Hayate. She does not seem to be in love with Hayate (or at least they did not show her having moment of introspection where she recognizes such), so it just came off as... strange behaviour. I think the writers actually did kind of a disservice to the character of Freyja by letting her react so hyperintensive without a clear cause.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

While I really liked this episode, I thought it was left unclear why exactly Freyja was reacting so strongly and worriedly about the rumors of Mirage and Hayate. She does not seem to be in love with Hayate...

I found Episode 3 pretty suggestive about Freyja's feelings for Hayate. Given that they only very recently met each other, the overall intensity of those feelings was suggestive to me. If I didn't know these characters at all, I'd go with either "old close friends" or "new crush".

It was still possible to view HayateXFreyja through a friendship prism, but I don't find this more "romantic interest" approach all that surprising. I think the earliest episodes foreshadowed it decently well.

I still hope this show won't go heavy duty with a love triangle... but there probably will be some love triangle. I hope it'll mostly be a background or supporting element.

[YF19EX]

The one dynamic I find more interesting is Messer X Kaname. Now that has the potential to be an developed relationship if they can flush it out better than the adolescent teasing they are giving with Freyja/Hayate/Mirage.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

Speaking of which, do the Jeniuses have any male descendants?

Watch Delta pulls a Hayate, you are Mirage's cousin at the last moment.

They kind of look alike. I'm sure it's accidental anime case of same face, but they have the same eyes and facial structure.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I found Episode 3 pretty suggestive about Freyja's feelings for Hayate. Given that they only very recently met each other, the overall intensity of those feelings was suggestive to me. If I didn't know these characters at all, I'd go with either "old close friends" or "new crush".

It was still possible to view HayateXFreyja through a friendship prism, but I don't find this more "romantic interest" approach all that surprising. I think the earliest episodes foreshadowed it decently well.

I still hope this show won't go heavy duty with a love triangle... but there probably will be some love triangle. I hope it'll mostly be a background or supporting element.

Yeah, there's been quite enough foreshadowing, her reaction wasn't out of the blue. Episode 3, for example, but also when Hayate takes her flying in episode 6 (I think), and some other scenes. Sure, they're just friends so far but at the very least Freyja feels more - most likely she just hasn't quite realized it yet.

Anyway yes, we'll eventually get some sort of a triangle between the three mains, but I also hope that any love triangle with the main characters will be low profile. I really don't want another romance melodrama. (And I hope the inevitable ship war won't be too horrible. :/ )

[magnuskn]

Grantedly, the shipping war in Frontier got so bad because they really buried Ranka in terms of her behaviour from episode 18 onward. If it had been movie Ranka all along, things would have been more equanimous.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

While I really liked this episode, I thought it was left unclear why exactly Freyja was reacting so strongly and worriedly about the rumors of Mirage and Hayate. She does not seem to be in love with Hayate (or at least they did not show her having moment of introspection where she recognizes such), so it just came off as... strange behaviour. I think the writers actually did kind of a disservice to the character of Freyja by letting her react so hyperintensive without a clear cause.

And yet as mentioned above, all the previous episodes show that Freyja cares a lot about Hayate, to the point where he's pretty much the reason she can bring out her full potential when singing, from the time she sang Bokura No Senjou during his qualifying dogfight, to powering up his Valkyrie in Voldor. Hell, Freyja and Hayate are shown to be so close that at one time they can complete each other's sentences!

Considering that, it's hardly strange to see Freyja have the initial pangs of jealousy here, and yet not realize what it is.

[lfhoule]

Originally Posted by Tak

JENIUS SISTERS, UNITE!!!


Speaking of which, do the Jeniuses have any male descendants?

Watch Delta pulls a Hayate, you are Mirage's cousin at the last moment.

- Tak

I can't recall where I read this (Sketchely's site or somewhere else), but with human - Zentran / Meltran pairings, the sex chromosome of the Zentran / Meltran parent so completely dominates the human partner's that it's virtually impossible to have offspring that's the same sex has the human parent, i.e the Jenius family. How many generations removed from the original parents before this situation weakens enough to allow equal chance of either sex of being born is anyone's guess at this point because we're only really 2 generations removed from Max and Milia's marriage, unless daughter #1's children have started having children of their own.

[Karutaku]

Originally Posted by Tak

JENIUS SISTERS, UNITE!!!

In the name of the Moon Rock... ... ... (vocal: Mylene, guitar: Emilia, dancer: Mirage)

Speaking of which, do the Jeniuses have any male descendants?

Watch Delta pulls a Hayate, you are Mirage's cousin at the last moment.

- Tak

No, no... Looking forward to Mirage's solo debut single "Watashi to kare wa pairotto"

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Grantedly, the shipping war in Frontier got so bad because they really buried Ranka in terms of her behaviour from episode 18 onward. If it had been movie Ranka all along, things would have been more equanimous.

I agree. Frontier triangle (tv series one) was really melodramatic in general. For example, let's contrast the scenes of Freyja and Ranka in spying/discovering the other two triangle members.

Freyja's reaction was presented as comic relief that didn't get in the way of singing or her job; she's worried and antsy but she could function. While Ranka was swimming in melodrama that paralyzed her (complete with dramatic flight of the stairs, tears and chest pains). Misa was melodramatic too in SDF, about Minmay and Hikaru thing (she even got drunk), and Minmay got dramatic too. Thank God that seems the triangle so far is just put as a joke?

Originally Posted by LoweGear

And yet as mentioned above, all the previous episodes show that Freyja cares a lot about Hayate, to the point where he's pretty much the reason she can bring out her full potential when singing, from the time she sang Bokura No Senjou during his qualifying dogfight, to powering up his Valkyrie in Voldor. Hell, Freyja and Hayate are shown to be so close that at one time they can complete each other's sentences!

Er, I strongly disagree with this. Her reason to sing in episode 8 has nothing to do with Hayate. She wanted to save the kids' father and for everyone to "believe in songs" (she was really affected when the little girl lost her faith). That's what awoke her potential. Freyja, on the other hand, is the one who awoke Hayate's potential. If you pay attention, when his flying is at peak of 'dancing' is when he syncs with her. His sync was 100% complete in episode 8 because of his desire to protect Freyja and believe in her song. However, her potential was stirred by her wish to protect others (that wasn't necessarily Hayate, but he's included too). His is about protecting Freyja. This could change, but so far it's presented like that.

Freyja might have a crush or perhaps those typical "mistaken by love" narrative, but to say Hayate awoke her potential is off. Her reason to sing and why she awoke her potential didn't have to do with Hayate: she wants to stop the war and make people smile. That's her goal. That's why she reached that peak. Hayate was the one who awoke after being pumped by her resolve, that's how they resonated, but she would have been able to pull this off without him (see episode 2 or episode 1). She peaked way before Hayate resonated with her and her focus was on the kid's dad completely, her thoughts was to save that guy. Unconsciously, she probably doesn't want anyone else go through the same experience she did as a child, just my opinion, that's why there's the recurrent flashback of the Windermere independent war in some key moments.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by Thess

Er, I strongly disagree with this. Her reason to sing in episode 8 has nothing to do with Hayate. She wanted to save the kids' father and for everyone to "believe in songs" (she was really affected when the little girl lost her faith). That's what awoke her potential. Freyja, on the other hand, is the one who awoke Hayate's potential. If you pay attention, when his flying is at peak of 'dancing' is when he syncs with her. His sync was 100% complete in episode 8 because of his desire to protect Freyja and believe in her song. However, her potential was stirred by her wish to protect others (that wasn't necessarily Hayate, but he's included too). His is about protecting Freyja. This could change, but so far it's presented like that.

Freyja might have a crush or perhaps those typical "mistaken by love" narrative, but to say Hayate awoke her potential is off. Her reason to sing and why she awoke her potential didn't have to do with Hayate: she wants to stop the war and make people smile. That's her goal. That's why she reached that peak. Hayate was the one who awoke after being pumped by her resolve, that's how they resonated, but she would have been able to pull this off without him (see episode 2 or episode 1). She peaked way before Hayate resonated with her and her focus was on the kid's dad completely, her thoughts was to save that guy. Unconsciously, she probably doesn't want anyone else go through the same experience she did as a child, just my opinion, that's why there's the recurrent flashback of the Windermere independent war in some key moments.

Not quite sure. Freyjas singing is somehow always connected to Hayate. Otherwise there would not be a sync between both in episode 8. Also she sung both for the children and for Hayate not becoming a reckless murder.

but I agree that has not her full potential yet but she just "awoke"

I just have a bad feeling there will be a big downer for Freyja and Hayate and Mirage are more and more getting close. In this episode Mirage was seen as Hayates Wingman. This is a big development in their relationship.

[Triple_R]

I like the relationship between Hayate and Mirage. And I can understand and respect why some would ship them.

But honestly, this is what Hayate and Mirage makes me think of so far: A bromance where one half happens to be a young woman. If Mirage was male, I think people would totally see it (as opposed to actual yaoi). Hayate and Mirage have a brothers-in-arms sort of relationship that comes from being trusted allies fighting alongside each other in a war. There's a really smooth comfort level between them that's like
brothers-in-arms or buddy cops.

When I look at Hayate and Mirage hanging out together, in recent episodes, I don't see any tension at all. Both are now completely at ease in each other's company - With him lounging a lot, and her typically standing upright but otherwise in an "at ease" position. That's great for a friendship... but maybe not so good for a romance.

Romance, in its early stages, should probably have some tension, some frayed nerves, some nervousness, and make you think passion more than relaxation. This probably ties into why some viewers see more romance in Messer-Kaname, or even in Mikumo-Freyja, than with either Hayate-Freyja or Hayate-Mirage.

This isn't to take away from Hayate's relationship with either Freyja or Mirage. In fact, it is to point out that close friendship can actually be more comfortable/relaxing than romance. The bromance has its own sort of depth and tightness that shouldn't be underestimated, in my view.

This can all change, of course. And maybe zentraedis, like Mirage, have a somewhat different approach to romance than humans do? If a big Macross fan wants to comment on that, I'd certainly consider it. But right now, and looking at this from the perspective of human relationships, Hayate-Mirage seems like a bromance to me. Just one that happens to include a young woman.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

Not quite sure. Freyjas singing is somehow always connected to Hayate. Otherwise there would not be a sync between both in episode 8. Also she sung both for the children and for Hayate not becoming a reckless murder.

but I agree that has not her full potential yet but she just "awoke"

Freyja's fold waves reached maximum on their own and her reason was that she found her motivation: protect people in general, make them smile, end the war. That's why she started to shine and everyone listened to her (even in Windermere). She couldn't tap into that because she didn't know "why she sang for" (or risked her life), now she understood and tells Mikumo at the end. After Freyja goes full, Bogue attacked her and that's when Hayate, in defense of Freyja, awoke his fold waves and resonated with her. Freyja did it without him, but Hayate awoke after she did (and previously, it's the same: episode 1, 3, 6. He follows her lead. Like a dancer follows a song). Yes, they resonate but Freyja emitted the fold waves max power independently from Hayate while he, so far, relies on her to do it first.

I guess you can see it as linked to their emotions. Freyja resolved to join Walkure and follow this path, on her own. Hayate didn't exist when she left her planet. He helps her, but she finds her answer alone. While Hayate started his own journey because of Freyja who walked into his life and started to question him about what he was doing with it. She's more like his muse, besides being his friend.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Romance, in its early stages, should probably have some tension, some frayed nerves, some nervousness, and make you think passion more than relaxation. This probably ties into why some viewers see more romance in Messer-Kaname, or even in Mikumo-Freyja, than with either Hayate-Freyja or Hayate-Mirage.

No, I agree completely. I think there's more romantic tension between Messer and Keith than between Hayate and the girls. Or hell Messer and Hayate.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

Freyja's fold waves reached maximum on their own and her reason was that she found her motivation: protect people in general, make them smile, end the war. That's why she started to shine and everyone listened to her (even in Windermere). She couldn't tap into that because she didn't know "why she sang for" (or risked her life), now she understood and tells Mikumo at the end. After Freyja goes full, Bogue attacked her and that's when Hayate, in defense of Freyja, awoke his fold waves and resonated with her. Freyja did it without him, but Hayate awoke after she did (and previously, it's the same: episode 1, 3, 6. He follows her lead. Like a dancer follows a song). Yes, they resonate but Freyja emitted the fold waves max power independently from Hayate while he, so far, relies on her to do it first.

I guess you can see it as linked to their emotions. Freyja resolved to join Walkure and follow this path, on her own. Hayate didn't exist when she left her planet. He helps her, but she finds her answer alone. While Hayate started his own journey because of Freyja who walked into his life and started to question him about what he was doing with it. She's more like his muse, besides being his friend.

No, the two times in episode one that Hayate was emitting fold waves, he did it when Freyja wasn't emitting any. Whilst the second time (during the battle) can be contested--since Freyja had been singing just a moment before, and he did it in his efforts to protect her--the first time (at the cargo port) can't. Perhaps he hadn't had such a large reaction until this episode, but he definitely did start emitting on his own before, albeit in conjunction with Walkure's music.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

No, the two times in episode one that Hayate was emitting fold waves in episode 1, he did it when Freyja had stopped. Whilst the second time (during the battle) can be contested--since Freyja had been singing just a moment before, and he did it in his efforts to protect her--but the first time (at the cargo port) can't, since Freyja doesn't seem to have been emitting any waves at the time. Perhaps he hadn't had such a large reaction until this episode, but he definitely did start emitting on his own before.

Well, Freyja had emitted them beforehand. Even if she stopped, it somewhat reminds me to Basara with Max and Milia (the exposure to the song stirred them - Hayate even had his trippy naked flying vision while Freyja sang afterward). However, there is a correlation of Freyja's will to protect in general (Hayate and other people = she gets pumped and she emits them) while Hayate's catalyst seems to be protecting Freyja specifically (as far as we can tell, this didn't happen with Mirage or other people)? I think it could be a metaphor of a dancer needs a song to follow? Still, she's his catalyst.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

Well, Freyja had emitted them beforehand. Even if she stopped, it somewhat reminds me to Basara with Max and Milia (the exposure to the song stirred them - Hayate even had his trippy naked flying vision while Freyja sang afterward). However, there is a correlation of Freyja's will to protect in general (Hayate and other people = she gets pumped and she emits them) while Hayate's catalyst seems to be protecting Freyja specifically (as far as we can tell, this didn't happen with Mirage or other people)? I think it could be a metaphor of a dancer needs a song to follow?

Then please explain the cargo port. Why was Hayate emitting fold waves then when no one else was (just to the Walkure song playing over the airwaves)? And when he wasn't even in danger?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

Then please explain the cargo port. Why was Hayate emitting waves then when no one else was at the time? And when he wasn't even in danger?

Do you mean episode 1? Or do you mean episode 2 when he was recruited? I don't understand which scene in particular you're talking about.