Macross Delta - Episode 1 Discussion / Poll

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe it's just that certain things are at their most impressive the first time you watch it, and lose some luster on repeat viewing.

Maybe the issue isn't so much what they cut out from the girls, but what they added from Hayate. In the pre-release, the episode is mainly about the girls; Hayate is mostly a spectator. But the revised episode changes this by giving him the key scene at the end. It's just one scene but it's really important because it's the actual hook for the plot going forward. Suddenly, he takes his place as protagonist, and that changes the dynamic of the whole episode.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe it's just that certain things are at their most impressive the first time you watch it, and lose some luster on repeat viewing.

It's probably something close to that. I wasn't as outright WOWED by the serialized version of episode 1 as I was by the preview airing either, likely because the element of surprise wasn't there for most of the episode anymore.

I was extremely impressed and entertained by Hayate's Valkyrie dancing evasion skills though.


Edit: Oh yeah, a good reason one might feel more impressed from the preview airing is simply the way the episode ended. The preview version ending with Freyja running towards the incoming fire topped off with a memorable still shot of her jumping ecstatically. That was one hell of nice cliffhanger, we leave the episode wondering what impressive feat Freyja is just about to do (note: active verb), and as a cliffhanger it's energetic and fits her personality well. The serialized airing on the other hand was more of a standard cliffhanger, where the main characters are attacked by a threat and their lives are in danger and we're left wondering how they're going to be saved (note: passive verb). It's also a fadeaway shot which isn't as impactful as a still shot when used for a cliffhanger.

In the case of content at the end of this episode 1 you could say that "less is more". It's still an exciting ending, but it doesn't have the same level of impact as the preview airing's ending. I doubt this will be done, but personally if I was in charge of cutting this show for the BD version I would make the BD version of episode 1 the same as the preview version, and append the extra content from the end of episode 1's serialized version to the start of the BD version of episode 2.

[MgMaster]

What the hell did I just watch? Virus curing with Idol singing? I mean, I vaguely remember Macross F but this one removed all the breaks and went crazy on us(not that I'm complaining ).

[Tenzen12]

It doesn't seems to be virus though.

[Triple_R]

Thanks to Tempester and Kazu-kun for explaining other differences to me.

Originally Posted by Tempester

Edit: Oh yeah, a good reason one might feel more impressed from the preview airing is simply the way the episode ended. The preview version ending with Freyja running towards the incoming fire topped off with a memorable still shot of her jumping ecstatically. That was one hell of nice cliffhanger, we leave the episode wondering what impressive feat Freyja is just about to do (note: active verb), and as a cliffhanger it's energetic and fits her personality well. The serialized airing on the other hand was more of a standard cliffhanger, where the main characters are attacked by a threat and their lives are in danger and we're left wondering how they're going to be saved (note: passive verb). It's also a fadeaway shot which isn't as impactful as a still shot when used for a cliffhanger.

Ok, now I fully understand why I liked the preview airing significantly more than I did the actual Episode 1. Earlier I wrote "I vaguely recall Freyja getting a cleaner moment of decisive victory in the preview episode", and the original cliffhanger ending is almost certainly what I was recalling there. While the original cliffhanger isn't a "clean moment of decisive victory" in and of itself, it definitely seems to be leading into that happening in the first scene or two of Episode 2. The original cliffhanger left me thinking that Freyja was going to do something truly awesome, and may even be the Big Damn Hero (tm).

With the cliffhanger we now have, yeah, it's a question of "How are they going to be saved?", which feels a lot different than "She's going to save them!"


I'm fine with Hayate's mecha action in general though. His fighting style is pretty different, and fun to watch.

In the case of content at the end of this episode 1 you could say that "less is more". It's still an exciting ending, but it doesn't have the same level of impact as the preview airing's ending. I doubt this will be done, but personally if I was in charge of cutting this show for the BD version I would make the BD version of episode 1 the same as the preview version, and append the extra content from the end of episode 1's serialized version to the start of the BD version of episode 2.

Agreed.

[Dextro]

I actually went the other direction from Triple_R in that the preview episode left me wondering if I was going to enjoy this or if Kawamori had been drinking too much of that AKB0048 kool aid but the final version cleared away all my doubts by letting the main male protagonist be a kickass with his VF Dancing

I'm still hoping they don't put too much emphasis on the mahou shoujo transformation sequences since those are kind of too far out there for me but otherwise I'm now fully on board with this. Now I just must have that end song. I've rewatched the ending sequence four or five times now just to listen to the song again and I'm still humming it as I write this. Now that's Deculture!

[Triple_R]

I respect that everybody has their own taste, but I really don't see how magical girl transformations are any more "out there" than dancing mechas.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I respect that everybody has their own taste, but I really don't see how magical girl transformations are any more "out there" than dancing mechas.

Well we already have some dancing robots so it's easier to suspend my disbelief there

[BetoJR]

Still loving it. Need moar.

[Tak]

As I said before and I will say again. If I can stand Macross 7, this is absolutely nothing.

- Tak

[Triple_R]

I really liked the Walkure magical girl transformations. They suit the overall tone of the show well, as that tone is very fantastical/whimsical and certainly not hard sci-fi. I think these magical girl transformations look very cool and aesthetically pleasing. I hope we'll see more of them.

[Tak]

Hard sci fi sometimes ends up as an exercise of attempting to explain very basic concepts with overwhelming information. Macross otoh, science is pretty much taken for granted. Really spare us from the confusion.

- Tak

[BluePhirePB]

So as someone who's never watched anything Macross ... WTF did I just watch.

Is the singing to cure the virus/fight a typical theme in Macross?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Well we already have some dancing robots so it's easier to suspend my disbelief there

We already had Max mug a Zentradi, steal his clothes, and put them on his Valkyrie. In 1983. There's dancing, and then there's putting twenty-foot-long trousers on a robot.

Originally Posted by BluePhirePB

Is the singing to cure the virus/fight a typical theme in Macross?

For the most part, singing in Macross represents culture and communication versus the usual gunplay. Only in a few cases is it used directly as a weapon.

(We sure are having to explain this a lot, aren't we?)

[BluePhirePB]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

We already had Max mug a Zentradi, steal his clothes, and put them on his Valkyrie. In 1983. There's dancing, and then there's putting twenty-foot-long trousers on a robot.





For the most part, singing in Macross represents culture and communication versus the usual gunplay. Only in a few cases is it used directly as a weapon.

(We sure are having to explain this a lot, aren't we?)

Ok, I had no idea singing was an integral part of Macross. I guess that explains why I keep seeing models of the Macross units with anime girls painted on the wings. (I'm assuming that's their respect singers)

[Tak]

Originally Posted by BluePhirePB

Ok, I had no idea singing was an integral part of Macross. I guess that explains why I keep seeing models of the Macross units with anime girls painted on the wings. (I'm assuming that's their respect singers)

Those are special edition releases that were never in the anime. So far we have not seen a full VF "itasha" (or in this case, probably an "itaki") in the anime. Though interestingly emough, we ha a couple in Gundam Seed.

- Tak

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Ok, now I fully understand why I liked the preview airing significantly more than I did the actual Episode 1. Earlier I wrote "I vaguely recall Freyja getting a cleaner moment of decisive victory in the preview episode", and the original cliffhanger ending is almost certainly what I was recalling there. While the original cliffhanger isn't a "clean moment of decisive victory" in and of itself, it definitely seems to be leading into that happening in the first scene or two of Episode 2. The original cliffhanger left me thinking that Freyja was going to do something truly awesome, and may even be the Big Damn Hero (tm).

With the cliffhanger we now have, yeah, it's a question of "How are they going to be saved?", which feels a lot different than "She's going to save them!"

The change in endings was certainly significant, but for me I think the cuts earlier in the episode played a role. They may not seem all that major but I think those extra bits in the preview actually had a significant impact. The stuff with Walkure seemed compressed in this version.

I suspect the preview version of the episode putting emphasis on Freyja and Walkure while the regular broadcast version puts more emphasis on Hayate and the mech combat was quite deliberate on the staff's part. Kawamori is quite aware that there are multiple ways to approach a Macross series. One can approach a Macross series as a love story or as a mecha series for instance. Plus I know that the preview and regular broadcast versions of Frontier were deliberately meant to give the audience different impressions. (Though in that case the objective was to give the audience different impressions of one of the characters -the preview cut was meant to emphasize Sheryl's cute side, while the regular broadcast version was supposed to make the audience almost hate her.)

Originally Posted by Dextro

I'm still hoping they don't put too much emphasis on the mahou shoujo transformation sequences since those are kind of too far out there for me but otherwise I'm now fully on board with this.

Aside from the ending "pose with close up background" shots, how are those really any different from Sheryl's holographic stage outfit transformations in Frontier?

My main issue with the Walkure girls is that their physical abilities seem superhuman. I might have preferred it if it had been indicated that they were using Ex-Gears (the powered exoskeleton type flight gear used by pilots in Frontier) that were hidden by their holographic stage outfits. That would also make them performer/pilots of a sort to compliment the pilot/performers that are supporting them.

(Though I guess that would also nix the idea that Sheryl is involved with anti-Vars efforts elsewhere in the Galaxy. She and Ex-Gears don't mix. )

[magnuskn]

Eh, she seemed to enjoy getting flown around by Alto in ep. 8 of Frontier. ^^ I'd say that she later got used to using them, since she took flying training.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I might have preferred it if it had been indicated that they were using Ex-Gears (the powered exoskeleton type flight gear used by pilots in Frontier) that were hidden by their holographic stage outfits.

I was disappointed to find out that the NUNS-Special Forces EX-Gear doesn't actually have built-in memetic camouflage but only uses "stickers", according to whatever source is being quoted by the Macross Mecha Manual. But it's been eight years, perhaps they could fit a hologram generator right into the unit. That model is also supposed to be much lighter than the regular EX-Gear, so it would be a better fit for this sort of use.

My idea is still shot down by the fact that when the girls exit their VFs (and I still say that the VF-31s used by Delta should have split canopies to make this easier), they appear to be wearing only regular flight suits and not the entire EX-Gear rig. Even though the EX-Gear would make sense.

Unless the EX-Gear is also being masked by holograms and... oh, just give us more episodes so we can see for ourselves!

Yet another option: They're not wearing an EX-Gear, but their suits are still reinforced with some sort of integral skeleton. They do leave their VFs at some significant altitude.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Aside from the ending "pose with close up background" shots, how are those really any different from Sheryl's holographic stage outfit transformations in Frontier?

Well you explained it yourself: it was an hologram which is something I find rather easy to suspend my disbelief off. Granted this could be explained the same way and, if they do broach the subject, I'll probably be satisfied but yeah... it's just the weirdness of getting transformation sequences in a show I wasn't really expecting them in.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

My main issue with the Walkure girls is that their physical abilities seem superhuman. I might have preferred it if it had been indicated that they were using Ex-Gears (the powered exoskeleton type flight gear used by pilots in Frontier) that were hidden by their holographic stage outfits. That would also make them performer/pilots of a sort to compliment the pilot/performers that are supporting them.

I hadn't thought of that but now that you mentioned it I guess I can see where you're going and rather agree. I think we should wait out for the next episodes though, we may get some more insight into the kind of tech Walkure is using. I doubt the show will dive deep into that aspect since that was never what Macross was about but we might get some offhand comments that help explain the situation.