Index Novel Sales Figures and Discussion

[Suzuku]

Originally Posted by dniv

You know, they might already be working on it. It's possible, but better quality/more time spent is fine... I gues...

I would be happy if they're already working on it so we don't get QUALITY like Index II. I believe one of the problems with Index II was that is was rushed into production and they didn't have a lot of time to schedule animation teams, studios, and such.

I'm so happy that Railgun and Index are basically on-going shounen series, taking the Bakuman model. It's the only light novel series that has been afforded this luxury of multiple seasons, and I'm glad it's my favorite. Hopefully it will keep being so successful to the end, so we don'r have to suffer like other fandoms.

[whitecloud]

hahaha...if index an ongoing shonen...i hope it have a long running tv series, it have enough material for that...

[Suzuku]

That's what I meant. It is a long running TV series, it just takes breaks like Bakuman but they always plan and have future seasons in development.

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

Hmmm.. I'm not too familiar with book publishing business, so it's the book store that has to took on the overstocking risk, not the publisher? So when publishers ship something to the bookstores, the bookstores don't have the option to return the overstock book to, let's say... 80% of the price to the publisher? Because if that is so, opening a bookstore is a lot more riskier than opening a normal distribution business, because in normal distribution business, usually there's an option to return the overstocked goods for less amount, if the item is still in good condition that is(at least in my country that's how it goes).

That's also how it is in the US, but I'm confident that there's a much more difficult time to return stock in Japan. This is why you see certain BD/DVDs, or even figures go down to 25% of their MSRP on stores. And yes, bookstore businesses have a much risker time now. There's actually a decline in bookstores over the past few years. (Incidentally, there's 14,241 bookstores in Japan now. Oricon tracks 1,907 of them, just over 10%. See why people trust the distributor amounts now?)

[ultimatemegax]

Sorry for the double post, but Oricon numbers for the first half of 2013 just came out.
Top 20 LN series for the first half of 2013 (2012/12/03-2013/05/27):
*5位　376,904　 A Certain Magical Index New Testament

Top 30 LNs for the first half of 2013 (2012/12/03-2013/05/27):
*3位　183,966　Index NT 6
*7位　131,311　Index NT 7

Add NT 6 and 7 together and you get 61,627 less than the reported amount. This means the other 5 novels sold ~12,325 each during that timespan.

[Chaos2Frozen]

^
Only 10%?! That means theres no way to know the actual numbers ?

Originally Posted by Suzuku

I would be happy if they're already working on it so we don't get QUALITY like Index II. I believe one of the problems with Index II was that is was rushed into production and they didn't have a lot of time to schedule animation teams, studios, and such.

The Index team had just finished the movie.

Unless of course they have been planning both projects along side each other...

I'm so happy that Railgun and Index are basically on-going shounen series, taking the Bakuman model. It's the only light novel series that has been afforded this luxury of multiple seasons, and I'm glad it's my favorite. Hopefully it will keep being so successful to the end, so we don'r have to suffer like other fandoms.

If we count them as a single entity, this is already their 4th 2 cour season.

Few franchises produces 2 cours Anime anymore and even less have broke through their 3rd season.

Originally Posted by Suzuku

I doubt Winter...earliest would be next Spring or maybe they'll wait until Fall 2014.

Anyway, as for novel sales, I'm really pleased with how it's doing even though an Index anime isn't airing right now. We've seen with Oreimo, Shana, ZnT, and other series that sales tank hard after the anime has been off for a while. Even though Index sales have slowed from what they were last year/2011 with books selling in the mid-high 200k range it's still awesome to see that the fanbase is so strong it can retain 150k on Oricon without an anime running.

Wait, OreImo sales are declining?

Might have something to do more with *cough* Kuroneko...

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

I would be happy if they're already working on it so we don't get QUALITY like Index II. I believe one of the problems with Index II was that is was rushed into production and they didn't have a lot of time to schedule animation teams, studios, and such.

I'm so happy that Railgun and Index are basically on-going shounen series, taking the Bakuman model. It's the only light novel series that has been afforded this luxury of multiple seasons, and I'm glad it's my favorite. Hopefully it will keep being so successful to the end, so we don'r have to suffer like other fandoms.

Yes, I really agree with this sentiment. I'm sure part of the reason this is true is that all of the Index season have been pretty successful in general. Not only do seasons help sell books, new books help sell seasons. The animes are perfect for making world-building more enjoyable and a ton of people love the series even just because of its world-building. Having 3 different perspectives on it: anime, manga, Light novel and getting material from tons of different place just makes the series great. People really love this series that has so much potential. Since this series is also one of the most popular Light Novel series, I'm sure that as long as it remains very popular no one will be worrying about the anime stopping.

I am really excited for Index seasons 3/4 and Railgun D (season 3). The latest arc in the Railgun manga is in fact pretty much one of the best arcs in Raildex. I'd put it on a similar level as to Agitate Halation (except this is accomplished without fanservice (i.e. cool scenes just for coolness) ). So many crazy things are going on that make it wonderful. I am happy to hear about the planning. When Index eventually finishes in a long, long time I will be happy . Also, there is a solution to a series not finishing. You can just write your own similar series for fun that does finish. That lets you enjoy it to the end even if it isn't the same. Index already convinced me to try writing something for fun... well probably for realz... but we'll see.

BTW:
Index Novel sales will double as sure as seasons 3 and 4 come out. By the way, I think the railgun manga actually has the potential of becoming a pretty good, maybe even top-selling manga eventually. I mean it has been written so well so far and it can go on for a pretty long time if Kamachi wanted it do do so. The railgun manga is as enjoyable for me as NT, because it introduces a lot of the characters who appear much later in Index that can't debut in animation or in the index manga and who can only appear there at this point in time and who will otherwise appear much later animated in any other medium, not to name any specific characters, but whoever reads it probably knows who I am talking about.

[Suzuku]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The Index team had just finished the movie.

Unless of course they have been planning both projects along side each other...

Hopefully they have been. They should have known they would be making an Index III relatively soon after the movie.

Speaking of the movie, its sales are looking really good in comparison to some other late night anime movies. I'm hoping it hits around 30-40k, maybe more.

If we count them as a single entity, this is already their 4th 2 cour season.

Few franchises produces 2 cours Anime anymore and even less have broke through their 3rd season.

Think about that...soon there will have been 100 episodes of Raildex. Most series/franchises can't even hit 36. That just shows how successful and lucrative it has been. It truly is the late-night equivalent to a long running shounen. And the best part is that Railgun's popularity has helped Index too.

Wait, OreImo sales are declining?

Might have something to do more with *cough* Kuroneko...

Yeah, last time I looked it had dropped even more than Index. Like Index, it's not selling mid-high 200k anymore and is down to low-mid 100k. There are very few light novels that have the consistency of Index past 100k.

Originally Posted by dniv

Yes, I really agree with this sentiment. I'm sure part of the reason this is true is that all of the Index season have been pretty successful in general. Not only do seasons help sell books, new books help sell seasons. The animes are perfect for making world-building more enjoyable and a ton of people love the series even just because of its world-building. Having 3 different perspectives on it: anime, manga, Light novel and getting material from tons of different place just makes the series great. People really love this series that has so much potential. Since this series is also one of the most popular Light Novel series, I'm sure that as long as it remains very popular no one will be worrying about the anime stopping.

I am really excited for Index seasons 3/4 and Railgun D (season 3). The latest arc in the Railgun manga is in fact pretty much one of the best arcs in Raildex. I'd put it on a similar level as to Agitate Halation (except this is accomplished without fanservice (i.e. cool scenes just for coolness) ). So many crazy things are going on that make it wonderful. I am happy to hear about the planning. When Index eventually finishes in a long, long time I will be happy . Also, there is a solution to a series not finishing. You can just write your own similar series for fun that does finish. That lets you enjoy it to the end even if it isn't the same. Index already convinced me to try writing something for fun... well probably for realz... but we'll see.

BTW:
Index Novel sales will double as sure as seasons 3 and 4 come out. By the way, I think the railgun manga actually has the potential of becoming a pretty good, maybe even top-selling manga eventually. I mean it has been written so well so far and it can go on for a pretty long time if Kamachi wanted it do do so. The railgun manga is as enjoyable for me as NT, because it introduces a lot of the characters who appear much later in Index that can't debut in animation or in the index manga and who can only appear there at this point in time and who will otherwise appear much later animated in any other medium, not to name any specific characters, but whoever reads it probably knows who I am talking about.

Yeah I've heard the latest Railgun arc has been great. I'm actually pretty behind on Railgun, I haven't really read it since Misaki was first introduced (not because of lack of interest but just lost track of it like I did a lot of stuff in the past year). I should really catch up soon.

[larethian]

I'm not surprised by Oreimo's decline. I was rather turned off by the sudden harem-gain in 1 volume and Kirino's overwhelming brocon tendencies in the later volumes. It totally ruined the build-up in the first half (+ up till Kuroneko break-up), for me at least.

We can't really compare Index's decline with Oreimo's decline. Like kuroshinigami mentioned, the number of volumes is a legitimate stopper for people to pick up a series or even continue following them; as people become older, they have more commitments and less time. I myself am practically back-dated in 80% of the series I'm reading (a whopping increase of 30% in 2011/2012 period). Compared to Index's 30 over volume (and many of them more than the average page count plus the fact that it's harder to read) , Oreimo is only at 11 volumes, and its decline probably indicates readers' dissatisfaction. Just a random speculation of mine though.

[Rovert10]

Index more or less has found the dedicated fanbase willing to buy each volume each time it comes out. That's why it has that usual average of 150k sales.

It isn't so much a decline but rather a normalization of people willing to stick to the series. Which is still a really healthy amount for a single LN series.

[Chaos2Frozen]

My take on this? I would say the decline in sales for OreImo factors in heavily with what happened with Kuroneko Majority of the fans just ragequit.

In Index's case, it's Mikoto that rakes in all the extra sales. And when people realized that they're not going to get what they want, they just moved off.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

My take on this? I would say the decline in sales for OreImo factors in heavily with what happened with Kuroneko Majority of the fans just ragequit.

In Index's case, it's Mikoto that rakes in all the extra sales. And when people realized that they're not going to get what they want, they just moved off.

Misaki's appearance really should have been enough to more than make up for it.

Misaki was perfect in that volume...

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

My take on this? I would say the decline in sales for OreImo factors in heavily with what happened with Kuroneko Majority of the fans just ragequit.

I guess you are right, but its also the fact fans have less and less tolerance towards the main girl and it doesn't helps people didn't care about the reveal about Saori that would make of her the antagonist .

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

In Index's case, it's Mikoto that rakes in all the extra sales. And when people realized that they're not going to get what they want, they just moved off.

If they didn't realized until know that the author or likely the editor is using her a fanbait then they deserve it. Seriously, destroying their novels and dvd just because she didn't get a big protagonic role and her meeting with Touma(about vol. 22 and NT1) wasn't what they wanted its just plain stupid.

I think we are better without them.

Also, Misaki Shokuhou proved to be a big fanbait to the point various artists on pixiv keeps spaming fanarts about her despite she only got to be on 1 episode of the series.
That is one of the reasons why Railgun manga currently is more interesting with Misaki as the protagonist of the current arc, I'm not saying Mikoto is a bad character but she fails to support the manga herself as protagonist and the readers' attention automatically go to any other character that appears be it new or (ironically) from Index series. Just look at the last episode, people is overjoyed at Item as much as they were with Accelerator and sure they'll hype up with Touma.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Birdway

I guess you are right, but its also the fact fans have less and less tolerance towards the main girl and it doesn't helps people didn't care about the reveal about Saori that would make of her the antagonist .


If they didn't realized until know that the author or likely the editor is using her a fanbait then they deserve it. Seriously, destroying their novels and dvd just because she didn't get a big protagonic role and her meeting with Touma(about vol. 22 and NT1) wasn't what they wanted its just plain stupid.

I think we are better without them.

Also, Misaki Shokuhou proved to be a big fanbait to the point various artists on pixiv keeps spaming fanarts about her despite she only got to be on 1 episode of the series.
That is one of the reasons why Railgun manga currently is more interesting with Misaki as the protagonist of the current arc, I'm not saying Mikoto is a bad character but she fails to support the manga herself as protagonist and the readers' attention automatically go to any other character that appears be it new or (ironically) from Index series. Just look at the last episode, people is overjoyed at Item as much as they were with Accelerator and sure they'll hype up with Touma.

I definitely agree with this sentiment. Misaki is the reason the Daihasesai arc is so good right now. Personally, so far I find her personality a little more compelling than Mikoto's, but that's partly because we don't know that much about her yet and also because she wasn't an annoying Tsundere to Touma when she was with him.

Did people actually tear their books, destroy/burn DVDs? That's as stupid as heck. They should've given them to us for free instead

I was sincerely pissed off myself when Misaki didn't get that large of a role in the series to be honest. Then I re-read stuff. I noticed backstories of the other characters, and I realized something. The other characters are at least as good as Misaka so it's ok... I'm still sad though that she doesn't have that big of a role. But the focus isn't even on her, and it doesn't even need to be. Honestly, Misaki was much more compelling in Index NT 7 than I've seen Mikoto for a long time (even in Volume 6)...

Honestly, I'll be happy as long as Touma ends up with someone that is NOT Index. Either this can happen or he can sacrifice himself at the end of the series to save everyone. One of those two things is fine by me... I just feel like him and Index are a horrible pair. I very much dislike Index's character even if she is slightly better in the Light Novels. (she was still horrible in NT 7)...

Part of the other reason the Railgun Manga has a lot of potential, like I think I said before, is because it animates characters from later on in Index (a nice thing BTW for many novel readers).

@Birdway I ask again: did they really burn/destroy books? How stupid can they be?... If they did that we really are better off without them. But they still should have bought more of Kamachi's books.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by dniv

Honestly, I'll be happy as long as Touma ends up with someone that is NOT Index. Either this can happen or he can sacrifice himself at the end of the series to save everyone. One of those two things is fine by me... I just feel like him and Index are a horrible pair. I very much dislike Index's character even if she is slightly better in the Light Novels. (she was still horrible in NT 7)...

Too bad for you then. Dislike aside on your part, nobody else seems to give him a hug except her.

Part of the other reason the Railgun Manga has a lot of potential, like I think I said before, is because it animates characters from later on in Index (a nice thing BTW for many novel readers).

Its obvious they are skipping as many events as possible, they really want to reach the last volumes of the "old testament".

@Birdway I ask again: did they really burn/destroy books? How stupid can they be?... If they did that we really are better off without them. But they still should have bought more of Kamachi's books.

Its on Sankaku blog's archives.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Its on Sankaku blog's archives.

You should definitely not take anything posted on that site, reposted from 2ch, seriously. People tearing up books or whatever in disgust at some supposed shipping development is just a meme/in-joke. It's a way of poking fun at people who really take things that seriously. It's not hard to buy an extra copy of the books at a used book store and then stage the picture to make it seem like you're so outraged, and blogs like Sankaku re-post it as if it's some sort of representation of the reaction of a whole lot of people, when it's more likely just a few pranksters.

In the end, there's generally a correlation between novel sales and proximity to a recent anime. So it stands to reason that OreImo novel sales will rise again with the anime and the knowledge that the story is coming to an end. And Index novel sales will probably also rise somewhat when the next TV anime comes around, as people want to know what's going to happen. (The movie may not have given it so much of a boost given that it's anime-original.) But I do agree that, with Index, it is harder to expect someone to start collecting the whole thing now with 30+ volumes to catch-up on. In the end, all of these works are always facing competition from "the next big thing", so attrition is probably normal for most works (that are not Haruhi, for example). It doesn't always mean that there's something deeply unsatisfying about the work, just that people may have moved on.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Well, maybe not all 30 volumes but just the latest

I think you have the right idea about people wanting to find out what happens next... especially with how the 3rd season could possibly end...

[dniv]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

You should definitely not take anything posted on that site, reposted from 2ch, seriously. People tearing up books or whatever in disgust at some supposed shipping development is just a meme/in-joke. It's a way of poking fun at people who really take things that seriously. It's not hard to buy an extra copy of the books at a used book store and then stage the picture to make it seem like you're so outraged, and blogs like Sankaku re-post it as if it's some sort of representation of the reaction of a whole lot of people, when it's more likely just a few pranksters.

In the end, there's generally a correlation between novel sales and proximity to a recent anime. So it stands to reason that OreImo novel sales will rise again with the anime and the knowledge that the story is coming to an end. And Index novel sales will probably also rise somewhat when the next TV anime comes around, as people want to know what's going to happen. (The movie may not have given it so much of a boost given that it's anime-original.) But I do agree that, with Index, it is harder to expect someone to start collecting the whole thing now with 30+ volumes to catch-up on. In the end, all of these works are always facing competition from "the next big thing", so attrition is probably normal for most works (that are not Haruhi, for example). It doesn't always mean that there's something deeply unsatisfying about the work, just that people may have moved on.

Thanks for the clarification. I was a little miffed when I read that.

@Birdway I like Index. I just don't think Touma should end up with her for his sake (at this point). The only reason I feel that way is that she's pretty selfish a lot of the time. (and she doesn't feel bad about it). She's an interesting character; just annoying at times. I will admit though. When I said she's better in the light novels, I didn't mean a little better, i meant she's a completely different character which makes her likeable generally compared to the anime. (It wouldn't actually break my reading experience lol. It's just an LN romantic relationship, the best parts of Index are the crazy plot and interesting philosophical/psychological issues anyway).

Also, Railgun technically isn't skipping events that quickly? Railgun season 1 occurs mostly before Index 1 and Railgun season 2 occurs half-way through Index 1. Liberal Arts city (from LN's) occurs a little later sure and so does Daihasesai arc, but the railgun seasons are slower than the Index seasons... Also, Kamachi might be skipping a little in the manga, to make sure that events in the manga affect current events in Index LN's. That's just as good/even better in my opinion.

I feel kind of bad for Kamachi though: he really likes Index as a character. He started the series with her, but just because of Mikoto's popularity, he "has" to make her important or get criticized. Not a fun situation to be in: especially since the main series is called Index and the spinoff/sidestory is Railgun. If only the anime had done a better version of Index. Then again: I'm sure seasons 3/4 can change my mind for the better if properly done correctly.

On another note: I just noticed Index is one of the few major "Shonen" series I have seen/like that really doesn't have much of a DBZ influence at all. I mean Oda and Kishimoto said DBZ was a huge basis for their works (two of the most popular Shonen ever): other than Index's appetite being similar to Goku's (probably not the comparison Kamachi had in mind, Index feels pretty brand new as a Shonen series in plot and style. In interviews, even Haimura and Kamaci note it has many Shonen manga like qualities after all.

Thoughts on this?

[Rovert10]

Kamachi could make Index as popular/profound/important (she's more important than Mikoto can ever be but others may say otherwise) a character as Mikoto but he hasn't choosen to so yet in my opinion.

It seems he's waiting for the right time before Index gains a very important role that's only matched by our protagonists. Especially with the glances at her potential power back in WWIII. If the plot swings back in England and that final controller get's destroyed somehow than Index suddenly becomes possibly greater than Angel Accelerator or at least equal.

[dniv]

Yeah...

I kind of meant about Toaru Majutsu no Index. Not "Index".

The Toaru universe is very unorthodox shonen and really doesn't have many or any Goku references or inspirations. Naruto and One piece do in contrast. That's what I was trying to say...