Marvel Live-Action TV and Film General News and Discussion Thread

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Still, without the X-Men the civil war story arc is NOT going to work.

The core of the entire Superhero Registration act is anti-mutant racism, which has always been an allegory of racism on a societal level.

With only a dozen or supers instead of an entire race of oppressed mutantoutcasts to fight for the rights of, Steve Rogers' crusade will turn from Noble and Relevant into Self-Righteous and Out of Context.

Sony: Just let the X-Men Go Home.

Uh... no? Mutants had nothing to do with it. I don't think any of them even participated except Wolverine, and that's only because he was a member of the Avengers at the time.

The core of the act is the same as requiring a car to be licensed or holding a license to have a gun. The only difference is the potentially dangerous item in this case is the person themselves.

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

While we're at it: Isn't this the PERFECT time to retire Peter Parker?

God no. Peter Parker is Spider-man. Just because Marvel is trying to force diversity doesn't mean people have to accept it by losing a character they care about.

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

For one thing, it would mean we DON'T have to wait for War Machine to get out of the humvee for a cameo for a cast of actual racial diversity.

Because we clearly didn't have Falcon in Captain America 2 or Heimdall in Thor 2, and we clearly aren't getting Black Panther or Blackbolt. And we just had an entire movie with a single human and a bunch of green and blue people.

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

And more-importantly, it would mean having a new generation of kids who can have a hero they can look up, and relate to, without pretending that they are white inside to do so.

So you can't look up to someone or relate to them if they're white and you aren't? That's a load of crap. News flash, if the color of their skin means you can't relate to them, the fact they have super powers is an even bigger reason you couldn't relate to them.

[Galaxian]

The only reason why Marvel can go with Scott Lang and Carol Danvers as Ant-Man and Captain Marvel is because their predecesors were not widely known. However, Peter Parker is Spider-man is known by everyone, so there is no changing him.

The only hope I see for Miles is that once the new Spidey actor's contract expires, Sony/Marvel decided to bring Miles in as a way to keep continuity instead of rebooting.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah, we really don't need the X-Men (really don't even need Spider-Man) for Civil War. It's easy to see where they are likely to go with this even without Avengers 2 having come out yet. Things are not going to go well there, and that would be the perfect time for governments to decide it's time to crack down on and start registering all these super people. The Hulk can decimate towns, Tony Stark can invent insanely powerful weapon, Captain America is a super soldier, etc. Start adding in Black Panther and possibly Spider-Man and it's not crazy that the world would go down that road.

You don't need secret identities and you don't need mutants for that.

Just like we aren't going to see a live action Batman Beyond movie with Terry McGinnis any time soon, we aren't going to see Miles Morales replace Peter Parker. The comics can get away with that because there are so many versions of every character out there that people can follow whoever they like. Marvel didn't go through the effort of teaming with Sony to get to use Spider-Man to just use Miles Morales.

Originally Posted by Galaxian

The only reason why Marvel can go with Scott Lang and Carol Danvers as Ant-Man and Captain Marvel is because their predecesors were not widely known. However, Peter Parker is Spider-man is known by everyone, so there is no changing him.

The only hope I see for Miles is that once the new Spidey actor's contract expires, Sony/Marvel decided to bring Miles in as a way to keep continuity instead of rebooting.

Honestly that's the only way I see him coming into it.

[Frontier]

Yeah, Age of Ultron will probably result in the public being more wary of Superheroes and the government wanting more regulation and control for them...and Tony feeling guilty for what he caused with Ultron, agrees to go along with it and that leads to a conflict with Cap who refuses to go along with it .

The X-Men were a complete nonentity in the event, like GDB said, and the most Wolverine did was hunt down the guy who actually caused the explosion that set off the Registration Act. They completely refused to get involved with it otherwise, so Civil War isn't missing much from their presence, just like the two are for the moment better off separate from each other. As much as I love my shared Marvel Universe with the X-Men a part of that, right now they work better on their own universe, especially when Marvel would probably push back even more movies if they got the X-Men rights back .

I love Miles, but there's no other Spider-Man I want to see debut on the Silver Screen than Peter Parker since he is Spider-Man and embodies the role in the same way the Trinity completely embody their Superhero identities. Miles works in the comics because he's from the Ultimate Universe, not the main 616 universe, and doesn't have to share the spotlight with Peter as Spider-Man. I'm fine with the possibility of using Miles hen the actor for Peter decides to leave or gets too old for the role, but not using him as the first and main Spider-Man for Spidey's MCU debut.

The only real negatives for this is that some of the Phase 3 movies are getting pushed back and that Andrew Garfield will probably be gone...but that all pales in comparison to seeing Marvel pretty much having the Spider-Man movie rights back and going to use him in the MCU. I'm also going to give Marvel Studios the faith that they'll treat Spidey better than Marvel has in terms of the cartoons and comics as of late. At least it'll be interesting to see a Superhero in the MCU with an actual secret identity, since it looks like that'll be a distinction only shared by Daredevil .

[aohige]

I don't mind phase 3 getting pushed back up to a year if the reward is seeing Spidey hang with other bros.

[SuitUp]

What this news has got me thinking is, what actor could they cast? Garfield is out for sure, so they have to cast another one, and I'm curious as to what actor can convincently portray that duality that Spiderman is, on one side a wise cracking smart ass superhero and on the other side a penniless and at times even pathetic photographer, Garfield was a good Spidey, and a god awful Parker, and Maguire was fantastic as Parker but a somewhat lame Spidey, so, who do you think they'll cast?

[ACertainStark]

Reading the posts here, you guys are right that it's a small price to pay. It adds so much more to the upcoming movies. Especially Infinity War.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

While we're at it: Isn't this the PERFECT time to retire Peter Parker?

If we recall correctly, there is a young African American Gentleman by the name of Miles Morales who has taken up his mantle in the Comic Universe by now.

I'd prefer Spider-Gwen to make an appearance (yes I know the announced movie is Spiderman, but it could all be a smoke screen ). There's a solid line-up of Brothers representing up in the MCU (though no stars yet), but so far only one female character in the entire line-up (not including Pepper, Peggy Carter and the Thor women, the later of which really do not matter to the larger universe too much). Captain Marvel is a solid step forward (not seen until freaking 2018...f-you Doctor Strange and Benedict Cumberbatch), but Spider-Gwen would be an insanely large risk with the potential for massive appeal (and of course massive resentment).

Hell, lets combine the best of all worlds and just make Spider-Gwen a non-white female character .

Obviously, this will never happen, especially since we are dealing with the Civil War storyline. But damn if it wouldn't be fun.

(It is annoying that there will be no significant parts for black characters in MCU until Captain 3 (where there should be at least 3 major black characters - Falcon, Black Panther and potentially War Machine (who will also make some sort of appearance in the next Avengers movie), but it's even more annoying that besides Michael Pena playing a bit part in the upcoming Ant-Man, there has been no mention of the introduction of any Hispanic or Latino characters in the MCU. Additionally, have there been any Asians in the entire franchise? I guess there was that one guy from Thor, the pretty damn cool Tadanobu Asano, but he was literally kicked out of the second film. Come on MCU, you can't keep all your diversity in your television shows...)

[GDB]

Yeah, let's make people not care about women/minority heroes more by having them haphazardly replace existing beloved super heroes for no reason other than diversity. I'm sure that won't have any detrimental effect.

[Frontier]

At least Marvel didn't create a female character who can wield Thor's hammer and then suddenly she's the new Thor and the old one isn't for some reason...oh wait .

[GDB]

One of many reasons I stopped actually reading the comics. Though I did look through their sales numbers for that new Thor, and it's dropped to almost 40% of its #1's sales numbers by issue #4 already. That level of drop off is insanely steep. From what I recall, it was seen as "bad" if there was a 10% drop from issue to issue on a consistent basis, let alone almost double that.

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by Frontier

At least Marvel didn't create a female character who can wield Thor's hammer and then suddenly she's the new Thor and the old one isn't for some reason...oh wait .

Not as bad as the whole Wally West debacle in which DC not only changed his race for diversity sake, but also changed his personality into a stereotype.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by GDB

Yeah, let's make people not care about women/minority heroes more by having them haphazardly replace existing beloved super heroes for no reason other than diversity. I'm sure that won't have any detrimental effect.

It's called an adaptation for a reason .

Seriously though, Miles and Spider-Gwen already exist, so it's not like MCU is reinventing the wheel here. Added to that, they were/are both popular and generally critically well respected.

As to diversity, I'm not saying the franchise needs to change preexisting characters willy-nilly,but if the characters already exist (whether they be c-listers or elseworld or whatever) why not invite then to the party?

[GDB]

Because those aren't the characters that the general populace knows or cares about? Comics are lucky to break 100k sales per issue. You don't want to piss off those fans, but you also don't want to pander to them to the detriment of everyone else.

I mean, there's two black Captain Americas, a female Thor, a horse Thor, a female Iron Man, a hispanic Spider-man (seriously, 2099 >>>> Miles), a female Hulk (who's actually a much larger player and character than any of these other side characters), a red Hulk, a Robin Batman, a black Superman, a blue Superman, a red Superman, a mullet Superman, etc. Why don't any of those get movies? Because no one knows or cares about them and wants to see the characters they do know and care about.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by GDB

Because those aren't the characters that the general populace knows or cares about? Comics are lucky to break 100k sales per issue. You don't want to piss off those fans, but you also don't want to pander to them to the detriment of everyone else.

What does (did) the general populace know about most of these characters pre2007? What did the general populace know about the Guardians, or Thor,or Black Widow, etc.? The producers, writers, directors all gambled on a strong premise mixed with great casting and strong mythology/world building, and they succeed marvelously (yes pun intended).

The general populace knows these characters now because the films made them known.

So no, changing the characters around will not affect how the general populace views them (a general populace comprised mostly of people under the age of 30, many of which only have a minor knowledge of the source material), only how committed fans see them, and that's not reason enough not to take a risk.

Originally Posted by GDB

I mean, there's two black Captain Americas,

If Captain dies in the next film, he might just become Black once again .

Originally Posted by GDB

a female Thor,

Hey if Thor dies in his next film, why not female Thor? . Lets be honest, most fans would be more upset with female Loki making an appearance...

Originally Posted by GDB

Because no one knows or cares about them and wants to see the characters they do know and care about.

We've had two fairly random white guys play Spider-Man (technically 7 or so, but only a few were popular), so why not something different finally? Do you really think kids and young adults would care that much if Spider-Man changed?

That being said, I don't expect Marvel or Disney to do anything interesting with these characters. (The same is true with DC and WB.)

[monster]

Originally Posted by james0246

What does (did) the general populace know about most of these characters pre2007? What did the general populace know about the Guardians, or Thor,or Black Widow, etc.? The producers, writers, directors all gambled on a strong premise mixed with great casting and strong mythology/world building, and they succeed marvelously (yes pun intended).

The general populace knows these characters now because the films made them known.

So no, changing the characters around will not affect how the general populace views them (a general populace comprised mostly of people under the age of 30, many of which only have a minor knowledge of the source material), only how committed fans see them, and that's not reason enough not to take a risk.

That doesn't really work for Spider-Man, though, who's had several TV series and movies even prior to 2007 and continuing into the present.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Not as bad as the whole Wally West debacle in which DC not only changed his race for diversity sake, but also changed his personality into a stereotype.

Oh yeah, New 52 Wally .

The most comparable thing I've seen Marvel do is the crazy, convoluted mess that was how they brought in Samuel Jackson's Nick Fury into the main comics. And then how they basically had an entire event that ultimately ended up being about removing classic white Nick Fury. Really, any blatant attempt by Marvel at movie and comic synergy comes off pretty bad .

While I'd rather not think about anyone replacing Cap, Thor, or even Iron Man, likely as it is that might eventually happen, I think Bucky taking over for Steve is more likely since I think his actors' contract is longer than Antony Mackie's (Falcon).

And I think female Loki would probably garner a lot of fans in her own right if she showed up .

[Wandering Soul]

Really the only character I can see being replaced is Captain America by Bucky.

And yes Marvel is not subtle at all at trying to have the comics and movie synchronize. It's how we all knew Peter Parker would be back in his body by the Amazing Spider-Man 2. It's also why people are waiting for Wolverine to come back to life in the time for the next x-men movie.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Frontier

And I think female Loki would probably garner a lot of fans in her own right if she showed up .

The only barrier is the current film Loki is too popular. I can't see any sense in replacing him when he is arguably the main draw in Thor films.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The only barrier is the current film Loki is too popular. I can't see any sense in replacing him when he is arguably the main draw in Thor films.

Just tell the ladies it is a necessary step to get to the shota Loki phase.