Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Aquaman OS]

Not to mention that unless that unless the control scheme is flexible. ALL the pilots in Seed are right handed, because all suits use their right hands to hold their rifles and use it as their primary melee arm, while the shield is always the left hand.

[Deadpool2000]

We have no idea how the control scheme works, but I think you underestimate how poor your motor functions on your off hand are. Consider this: Most people can't WRITE with their off hand.

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Not to mention that unless that unless the control scheme is flexible. ALL the pilots in Seed are right handed, because all suits use their right hands to hold their rifles and use it as their primary melee arm, while the shield is always the left hand.

It's one of those things writers rarely think about. But having everyone be right handed isn't that unlikely from a purely statistic viewpoint.

That said, Mr. Ultimate Coordinator is probably ambidextrous...

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

We have no idea how the control scheme works, but I think you underestimate how poor your motor functions on your off hand are. Consider this: Most people can't WRITE with their off hand.



It's one of those things writers rarely think about. But having everyone be right handed isn't that unlikely from a purely statistic viewpoint.

That said, Mr. Ultimate Coordinator is probably ambidextrous...

I would go as far to say that ALL Coordinators are ambidextrous, its truly a nifty gift/trait

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

They go with button down shirts?

A tie is like kissing your sister...



Or in this case, Kira kissing Cagalli!

Originally Posted by Gundamx

1-self-destruction because he was near check-mate = not same as tie
( he used to much power in battle till his MS lost all its power = easy target for Kira knife......
yes knife , for some reason most of his ace kill/win in strike was with his knife )

2- Kira only one of 4 Seed pilots who can enter seed mode at will = he can enter it at start of fight and end the fight if he want ( look at shin in orb fight)

3-Athrun MS = melee suit , Shin MS= junk of all trade and Kira MS= range suit,
main reason Shin lost to Athrun because he enter in melee fight like idiots
(Ray wasn't with him to cool down his rage and tell him stay the hell away from IJ melee range)

Wasn't Athrun finally able to trigger Seed mode at will in the final episode of GSD?

Still, Athrun has never lost in Seed mode.

[Rising Dragon]

His first use of the SEED didn't result in a victory, and I seriously cannot see it as a tie.

[Deadpool2000]

Similar mobile suits, similar mindsets, similar damage to both mobile suits...

I find it hard to objectively see it as anything other than a tie.

[Rising Dragon]

Well, for one, Kira's Gundam still had power and Kira had done damage with only a single saber that Athrun's Gundam required three sabers to do in kind. Athrun drained all of his suit's power and failed to destroy the Strike, and was forced to self-destruct the Aegis to end the battle.

So the Aegis was in tiny pieces for the most part, whereas Kira's mobile suit was almost entirely intact, sans one arm. On top of that, Kira survived. Athrun's entire personal objective was to kill Kira, and he failed to accomplish that goal. At most, he succeeded in incapacitating Kira, and he had to destroy his weaponry to do that and still failed to truly destroy his opponent.

That's not much of a tie. That's pretty much a loss no matter what way you look at it with all of the details. Athrun could only see it as a victory because he was unaware that Kira survived, and unaware that the Strike mostly survived at that.

[Deadpool2000]

They were both trying to kill each other. They both failed.

Both mobile suits were incapable of continuing the fight.

It's a stalemate. Athrun didn't use anything that wasn't available to Kira and vice versa. Kira was saving up energy because he wanted to. No one forced him to.

In the end of the day the two went at it with every intent of killing each other, they both came out unsuccessful, with totaled mobile suits and medical bills.

It really is about as even a fight as you could possibly get.

[Rising Dragon]

Both suits incapable, yes, but only one of them was actually destroyed. Unless both were destroyed, I equate the loss of a mobile suit--the physical destruction of a mobile suit--as a definitive win for the one that survived.

The Strike survived. The Aegis did not.

[Aquaman OS]

But on the other hand, Athrun escaped with minor injury. Kira was severely messed up and would have certainly died without the intervention of Lowe and Malchio.

Athrun was picked up by Orb, but even if he hadn't he still only had a broken arm from the ideal and could have radioed to Zaft for assitance.

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Both suits incapable, yes, but only one of them was actually destroyed.

That's a strange definition. Both mobile suits were inoperative. Neither combatant was capable of continuing the fight. That's like saying a pilot like Kira who disables instead of destroying wins "less" than someone who destroys the mobile suit. Also someone who goes for a precise cockpit shot wins "less" than someone who hits every non-lethal part of the mobile suit first before disabling.

Hell, in a Gouf lost a leg before electric whipping a mobile suit enough times to knock out the pilot in his cockpit would have LOST the fight by your definition!

What do you make of Shinn vs. Kira? Shinn lost like 3 Impulses in that fight, Kira only lost one Freedom. Did Kira "win" that?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

But on the other hand, Athrun escaped with minor injury. Kira was severely messed up and would have certainly died without the intervention of Lowe and Malchio.

Athrun was picked up by Orb, but even if he hadn't he still only had a broken arm from the ideal and could have radioed to Zaft for assitance.

Athrun's injuries weren't what I would call "minor". He had a busted up arm and who knows what else. Certainly had less injuries than Kira, but he also got quicker medical treatment. And the whole thing was a wallbanger with Kira anyway--IF the so-called emergency hatch is considered canon, then Kira shouldn't have had much injury, especially compared to Athrun. On top of that Athrun should've been pulverized a lot worse than Kira, due to his proximity to the shockwave from the Aegis' explosion.

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

That's a strange definition. Both mobile suits were inoperative. Neither combatant was capable of continuing the fight. That's like saying a pilot like Kira who disables instead of destroying wins "less" than someone who destroys the mobile suit. Also someone who goes for a precise cockpit shot wins "less" than someone who hits every non-lethal part of the mobile suit first before disabling.

Hell, in a Gouf lost a leg before electric whipping a mobile suit enough times to knock out the pilot in his cockpit would have LOST the fight by your definition!

What do you make of Shinn vs. Kira? Shinn lost like 3 Impulses in that fight, Kira only lost one Freedom. Did Kira "win" that?

*sighs* There's more than one way to win a fight, but knowing our past debates, I doubt you'll come to grasp that. Or admit it even if you could.

For the record, no, I do not think Shinn lost that fight. He won. Wrecked parts aside, he still had a functional mobile suit left over from the fight. Kira didn't--the Freedom was destroyed. They had to dumb Kira down (and I'm not talking about his distraction) to do so, but it was Shinn's victory nonetheless.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

But regardless, in both Gundam and Star Wars, there's no "better" way to fight. It all comes down to the skill of the wielder.

Kira's style always had him using a single beam saber, while Athrun's style is to 'Darth Maul' his beam sabers(Honestly, I don't see combining beam sabers into a one naginata would be any more practical than using them as a single beam saber). Kira was forced to adapt and dual-wield against Shinn, while Athrun didn't have to change his fighting style.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, for one, Kira's Gundam still had power

That makes sense. Strike's Striker packs each had an extra auxiliary battery, meaning longer operation time.

and Kira had done damage with only a single saber that Athrun's Gundam required three sabers to do in kind.

After Athrun used his SEED, Kira only managed to land a single hit, while Athrun managed to cut off Strike's arm, score an almost-direct hit to Strike's cockpit, trap Strike under Aegis, and almost blow Kira's face off with the Scylla beam cannon.

And Athrun only used two beam sabers, which both managed to hit Strike. Either way, using leg sabers are impractical, since it's slower and less coordinated than arms, less articulated, less maneuverable, you'd be more prone to overextend yourself when kicking, and dual-"legging" them is just silly since you can't overlap them unlike with dual-wielding with your hands. The Infinite Justice's MG manual even states that only a very small number of pilots can effectively use leg sabers and Athrun is one of them.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Yesman

Kira's style always had him using a single beam saber, while Athrun's style is to 'Darth Maul' his beam sabers(Honestly, I don't see combining beam sabers into a one naginata would be any more practical than using them as a single beam saber). Kira was forced to adapt and dual-wield against Shinn, while Athrun didn't have to change his fighting style.



That makes sense. Strike's Striker packs each had an extra auxiliary battery, meaning longer operation time.



After Athrun used his SEED, Kira only managed to land a single hit, while Athrun managed to cut off Strike's arm, score an almost-direct hit to Strike's cockpit, trap Strike under Aegis, and almost blow Kira's face off with the Scylla beam cannon.

And Athrun only used two beam sabers, which both managed to hit Strike. Either way, using leg sabers are impractical, since it's slower and less coordinated than arms, less articulated, less maneuverable, you'd be more prone to overextend yourself when kicking, and dual-"legging" them is just silly since you can't overlap them unlike with dual-wielding with your hands. The Infinite Justice's MG manual even states that only a very small number of pilots can effectively use leg sabers and Athrun is one of them.

1- wrong, Kira used dual-wield in SF because he can do it without throwing his shield
-> look at his fight against Athrun in Aegis err I mean Saviour -> Kira used dual-wield
(He didn't start using it because Shin force him)

2- at end of day: it's boxer example-> Athrun lost his stamina after first 6 rounds = easy win for kira
since he still have some power in strike pack and can fight without it unlike Athrun -> so he just self-destruction
____

And didn't Athrun used his Seed mode same as Shin in Destiny? (rage at Shin stupidity from his pov)

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

1- wrong, Kira used dual-wield in SF because he can do it without throwing his shield

Sorry, what?
Uhmm, Kira's go-to weapon in close-combat has always been a single beam saber, that didn't really change much when he started piloting Strike Freedom.

Your second point is a bit nonsensical. Athrun never lost his stamina. What are you talking about?

[Washu-Chan]

To summarize the various duels (all the pilots survived, obviously):

• SEEDed Kira (in Strike) and SEEDed Athrun (in Aegis) fought to a draw/stalemate
• SEEDed Kira (in Freedom) stomps an unmotivated and distracted Athrun (in Saviour)
• SEEDed and highly motivated Shinn (in Impulse) destroys SEEDed and unfocused Kira (in Freedom)
• SEEDed Shinn (in Destiny) fought SEEDed Kira (in SFreedom) to a draw(?)
• Wounded Athrun (in IJustice) defeated SEEDed Shinn (in Destiny)
• SEEDed and motivated Athrun (in IJustice) stomps SEEDed, unfocused, and frenzied Shinn (in Destiny)

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

*sighs* There's more than one way to win a fight, but knowing our past debates, I doubt you'll come to grasp that. Or admit it even if you could.

But destroying a suit's cockpit isn't one of them?

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

SEEDed Shinn (in Destiny) fought SEEDed Kira (in SFreedom) to a draw(?)

One retreats, one doesn't. I think that is a win.

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Wounded Athrun (in IJustice) defeated SEEDed Shinn (in Destiny)

Athrun was also SEEDed in this fight.

Otherwise, yes. Accurate list.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Yesman

Sorry, what?
Uhmm, Kira's go-to weapon in close-combat has always been a single beam saber, that didn't really change much when he started piloting Strike Freedom.

Your second point is a bit nonsensical. Athrun never lost his stamina. What are you talking about?

I mean Freedom vs Saviour
Kira used dual saber

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And I really don't like how ->Huh? I used all my MS power while enemy still have it? Self-destruction button = so I win!

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

And I really don't like how ->Huh? I used all my MS power while enemy still have it? Self-destruction button = so I win!

It's obviously not a win. But to say "I completely disabled my opponent's mobile suit" is a lost is kinda silly...

[monster]

Originally Posted by Yesman

To be fair, Shinn could, at least, make Kira dual-wield, while Athrun doesn't have to. So, I'd say Athrun would be the best at close-combat.

Since Kira dual-wielded from the start, it's not like he was forced to do it.