Mahouka [LN/M] - Character Speculation/Theories: Tatsuya

[tigerdave]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

Well the question was; is Tatsuya less humane than Miyuki. And, we can pretty comfortably say that he is. While Miyuki is also very cold occasionally, she also has feelings like getting depressed after freezing her enemies in the enrollment arc, asking Tatsuya to heal their friends, like in your example and to arrange protection for their friends. Tatsuya will go and kill countless numbers of people, if they're even mildly involved in threatening the safety of Miyuki and not sacrifice a moments thought for any of it. Many times, there is absolutely nothing humane about his actions.
I think the author is clearly, intentionally trying to write Miyuki as the more emotional and social of the pair to foil Tatsuya's general aloofness and indifference. And also to serve as the means to move Tatsuya, within the story. If there was no Miyuki, Tatsuya wouldn't even have bothered with coming to highschool or much less, human interaction.

I don't think your way is the correct way of looking at it. If a robot got turned into a merciless killing machine, it's still a merciless killing machine. Then you compare it to a serial killer, it doesn't really matter how they got there, at the end of the day they're both merciless killing machines. And that's what we're talking about. But, in any case, Miyuki doesn't have the capacity for the kind of things that Tatsuya has. So it's not a fair comparison. For Miyuki, Tatsuya being her most important person is something a lot more normal, than it is for Tatsuya. And what makes Tatsuya inhumane, isn't just his protectiveness and single mindedness concerning Miyuki.

In volume 14, it was Tatsuya that arranged for the protection of their friends. In volume 13, Miyuki basically told Tatsuya that he only has to protect her, blatantly implying that if all of the other contestants died, it didn't matter. Is that humane, especially considering she has the confidence that Tatsuya could stop the parasite dolls and save everyone if she let him go? Has Miyuki ever risked her life for her friends like Tatsuya has? Actually, that last one is an unfair bar for saying someone has a lot of compassion for others. However, despite that being an unreasonable bar to meet, Tatsuya has met it. Heck, Tatsuya is trying to complete a project that will free magicians from being used solely as weapons. If he was truly inhumane, then he would not try to take on such a huge undertaking.

Another way to look at this is to judge what their friends think of them. Tatsuya has done things for his friends that they'd have no right to ask him to do. If Tatsuya truly had no compassion for others, his friends would not be so loyal to him. Do their friends feel the same way about Miyuki? Maybe not, at least not to the degree that they are devoted to Tatsuya.

As for Tatsuya's willingness to execute those who threaten Miyuki, I'm confident that if Miyuki was Tatsuya's guardian, she would act similarly. However, that's just my opinion on a hypothetical situation.

I can understand where you're coming from about who is inhumane, and you likely have the same feelings as the general consensus. But I do strongly disagree with you saying that Tatsuya is a robot. A robot has no emotions (unless it's Pixie!). Every volume of this series has examples of Tatsuya that suggest he does not fall into that category. Robots behave like robots all of the time, not some of the time.

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

In volume 14, it was Tatsuya that arranged for the protection of their friends. In volume 13, Miyuki basically told Tatsuya that he only has to protect her, blatantly implying that if all of the other contestants died, it didn't matter. Is that humane, especially considering she has the confidence that Tatsuya could stop the parasite dolls and save everyone if she let him go? Has Miyuki ever risked her life for her friends like Tatsuya has? Actually, that last one is an unfair bar for saying someone has a lot of compassion for others. However, despite that being an unreasonable bar to meet, Tatsuya has met it. Heck, Tatsuya is trying to complete a project that will free magicians from being used solely as weapons. If he was truly inhumane, then he would not try to take on such a huge undertaking.

Another way to look at this is to judge what their friends think of them. Tatsuya has done things for his friends that they'd have no right to ask him to do. If Tatsuya truly had no compassion for others, his friends would not be so loyal to him. Do their friends feel the same way about Miyuki? Maybe not, at least not to the degree that they are devoted to Tatsuya.

As for Tatsuya's willingness to execute those who threaten Miyuki, I'm confident that if Miyuki was Tatsuya's guardian, she would act similarly. However, that's just my opinion on a hypothetical situation.

I can understand where you're coming from about who is inhumane, and you likely have the same feelings as the general consensus. But I do strongly disagree with you saying that Tatsuya is a robot. A robot has no emotions (unless it's Pixie!). Every volume of this series has examples of Tatsuya that suggest he does not fall into that category. Robots behave like robots all of the time, not some of the time.

Tatsuya arranges protection but it's Miyuki who requests it. What Miyuki said in volume 13, pales in comparison to the things that Tatsuya does for Miyuki. Protecting her is his job, not others. He agrees with Miyuki, feels better the day after and is even notified of it by his schoolmates. And Miyuki doesn't believe that her schoolmates would die in any case, and requests Tatsuya to take care of it another day.
The reason why he is trying to improve the public view on magicians is because of Miyuki as well.

Tatsuya doesn't risk his life for his friends any more than the bare minimum. He would judge the cost/benefit ratio before saving any of his friends. And again, the most he would feel is "slight regret", if they died. It's literally impossible for him to feel anything greater. This is why there is also nothing outside of that slight feeling and the cost/benefit ratio to motivate him to act. This is just something you'll have to accept, unless the author specifically changes this aspect of Tatsuya.
He is part of the military, and in the enrollment arc, again, his motivation was for Miyuki. But he doesn't really put his life at risk for his friends at any point in time.

What do their friends think of them? It's not much different, I'm pretty certain that they'd say that Tatsuay is the colder one by far as well. I don't think they are any more devoted to Tatsuya than they are to Miyuki, they are friends to both. After they were revealed as Yotsuba the entire school started avoiding them "friends" included. The one exception was Leo, even Erika was affected when she found out earlier on in the story. There are characters like Kent and Izumi though that are a bit different. I guess that answers your question about loyalty.
Yes, your opinion on Miyuki is just speculation, which ignores a lot of whats written. I can agree with situations in where Tatsuya is under a direct threat. But the scope of her actions would be greatly lesser on a more general level. Tatsuya is the sort of character that will inspect the grass so that it won't have any harmful substances if Miyuki walks over it, and if it's dangerous he will nuke it, a mild exaggeration but you get the point.

I didn't say Tatsuya was a robot, it was a comparison. The point was that an emotionless killer is an emotionless killer, despite how he came to be one, since you said that Miyuki is somehow worse because she has made a choice. But the reality, doesn't actually fit into that frame and is altogether different. And it's funny you mention Pixie because she seems to have more emotions than Tatsuya because of her connection to Honoka.
Really, the one quote I gave you earlier should be more than enough to at least stop the discussion about who is the most humane of the pair. You can discuss about Miyuki actually being a cold person herself but she isn't like Tatsuya, she doesn't have that mindset.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

In volume 14, it was Tatsuya that arranged for the protection of their friends. In volume 13, Miyuki basically told Tatsuya that he only has to protect her, blatantly implying that if all of the other contestants died, it didn't matter. Is that humane, especially considering she has the confidence that Tatsuya could stop the parasite dolls and save everyone if she let him go? Has Miyuki ever risked her life for her friends like Tatsuya has? Actually, that last one is an unfair bar for saying someone has a lot of compassion for others. However, despite that being an unreasonable bar to meet, Tatsuya has met it. Heck, Tatsuya is trying to complete a project that will free magicians from being used solely as weapons. If he was truly inhumane, then he would not try to take on such a huge undertaking.

It seems you either did not read volume 13 properly or is just biased towards Miyuki. Miyuki was afraid of Tatsuya breaking down by overexerting himself, just like Miya and Honami. Her whole argument was that there was no need for Tatsuya act on that day, and that he should rest first and deal with it later, since it was not a problem that needed his immediate action.

Heck, Miyuki even offered to go destroy the Parasite Dolls herself in his place. You should really get your facts straight before posting.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Ophis

So you're saying that Miyuki is not humane because she doesn't want to sacrifice her loved one for the sake of people she either barely knows or don't know at all? If the well being of the people you love is not more important to you than random unknown people, then you simply don't love them at all. That's what I call inhumane.

At no point did Miyuki show regret at asking for Tatsuya to save Kei and Kirihara. She was just angry with herself for asking something unreasonable of her brother; knowing full well the consequences of using Regrowth. Feeling 150 times the pain of having your leg blow off, and the blast of a grenade's shrapnel on your back, is no laughing matter. A normal person would probably die from shock.

About the P Dolls incident, Miyuki never asked for Tatsuya to just abandon the students. She knew full well how much overloaded was Tatsuya, and that there was no need for him to act on that day. Miyuki sent him off to accomplish his duty on the next day just fine.

I seriously can't follow you guys' twisted logic. Nobody would want to see their loved ones sacrificing their well being for the sake of others, much less for unknown people. Miyuki never disliked Tatsuya helping others, she actually supports it. But when his health is at risk, it's another matter entirely.

Really, the Mahouka threads never stop to amaze me.

It's kinda funny,but after volume 16 was released,and the Tatsuya/Miyuki engagement spoilers,I've been seeing more Miyuki bashing than ever,and more wrong interpretations of her actions in the novels.it's like people are making things up to hate her more,since their ship sunk or something and want to share it to the fandom

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

It's kinda funny,but after volume 16 was released,and the Tatsuya/Miyuki engagement spoilers,I've been seeing more Miyuki bashing than ever,and more wrong interpretations of her actions in the novels.it's like people are making things up to hate her more,since their ship sunk or something and want to share it to the fandom

I've been lurking for some time and I remember back when Dreyakis was translating, Mahouka threads used to be so much more enjoyable. And people were able to discuss things that actually happened outside of their heads and without such blind bias. I'm not sure if it's just because we're not getting translations or because the conversation has deteriorated, or what, but most of the intelligent posters seem to either just occasionally visit the forums or have just moved on.
I miss reading the more productive conversations that people used to have. Instead of just meaningless bickering based on incorrect interpretations.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

It's kinda funny,but after volume 16 was released,and the Tatsuya/Miyuki engagement spoilers,I've been seeing more Miyuki bashing than ever,and more wrong interpretations of her actions in the novels.it's like people are making things up to hate her more,since their ship sunk or something and want to share it to the fandom

Seriously I think it's in your head, Miyuki has always been a controversial character, think about what happened in Steeplechase for example, not everyone likes her brocon antics.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Seriously I think it's in your head, Miyuki has always been a controversial character, think about what happened in Steeplechase for example, not everyone likes her brocon antics.

Sadly, it's not in his head. People are pulling nonsense to bash Miyuki out of their asses, and that got a lot worse after the engagement announcement.

Not liking Miyuki's brocon antics is one thing, but coming here to bash a character based on misinterpretations and full of bias is seriously annoying as fuck.

[pyramidekheops]

OPHIS i agree with you, too much of Miyuki bashing !!!

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Seriously I think it's in your head, Miyuki has always been a controversial character, think about what happened in Steeplechase for example, not everyone likes her brocon antics.

Yeah,I don't even get the controversial thing she did in Steeplechase,if I remember correctly,someone posted a spoiler and people latched on her statement that "Tatsuya doesn't need to think of others and to protect them,and that she's the only person he needs to protect",and ignoring the fact that Tatsuya was dead tired and only told him these things for his sake,and that Tatsuya ain't a shonen hero that needs to protect the masses,and he never really was portrayed as one.So Miyuki hate is real,and misinterpretations to hate her more is also real.Might be really ships sinking that further agitated her haters.

edit:

Want to add that

- during a vs debate a few months ago,some were commenting that Miyuki wasn't trained to fight and wasn't that physically capable,but in volume 15,Mayumi was breathing hard following Tatusya and Miyuki was still fine.And we saw how capable she was in volume 7 and all her battles.

-I've read post that Miyuki wasn't concerned with the well being of others,especially during Yokohama,and was commenting that Mayumi's thoughts on her when she wanted to annihilate enemies in one swoop (during Lu's attack on a base) as fact (that she might hit friendlies),even though Mayumi wasn't really aware of half of Miyuki's capabilities.

[Pierre]

I don't have anything against Miyuki, she is my favorite behind Mayumi, and I like her about the same as Lina. Also Id like to see the author pair her with Tatsuya, because no matter what is said, its still like incest, and the mainstream crowd never actually has the guts to go through with it, we either get no blood relation or something ambigous like oreimo.

That said I was just rewatching ep 6 of the anime on netflix, and in that episode Miyuki almost kills an entire group of people because they "offended" her brother, despite the fact that Tatsuya told her to keep cool, and the fact that she could have incapacitated them with easily with out harming them. And she shows this at other times in the work.

I personally don't mind it, but she can basically homicidal yandere on par with Yuno at times, and I can tell that she is her aunt's niece.

First of all the term "humane/humanity" is probably the definition of irony. The term is used to connotate compassion, based on some trait that humans allegedly posse, when in reality people are destructive at worst, in different or selfish at best. So by that token, if we take humane to represent what people actually are, Tatsuya is quite humane. He wipes out anyone in his way.

And even if we use it the way its commonly used, I would still argue Tatsuya ultimately always acts only when acted first, and only targets those directly responsible. Miyuki on the other hand is irrational and extreme due to her at times obsessive devotion, honestly I would find her to be more dangerous especially with something like cocytous.

That said incestuous yandere are awesome. Go Miyuki.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't have anything against Miyuki, she is my favorite behind Mayumi, and I like her about the same as Lina. Also Id like to see the author pair her with Tatsuya, because no matter what is said, its still like incest, and the mainstream crowd never actually has the guts to go through with it, we either get no blood relation or something ambigous like oreimo.

That said I was just rewatching ep 6 of the anime on netflix, and in that episode Miyuki almost kills an entire group of people because they "offended" her brother, despite the fact that Tatsuya told her to keep cool, and the fact that she could have incapacitated them with easily with out harming them. And she shows this at other times in the work.

I personally don't mind it, but she can basically homicidal yandere on par with Yuno at times, and I can tell that she is her aunt's niece.

First of all the term "humane/humanity" is probably the definition of irony. The term is used to connotate compassion, based on some trait that humans allegedly posse, when in reality people are destructive at worst, in different or selfish at best. So by that token, if we take humane to represent what people actually are, Tatsuya is quite humane. He wipes out anyone in his way.

And even if we use it the way its commonly used, I would still argue Tatsuya ultimately always acts only when acted first, and only targets those directly responsible. Miyuki on the other hand is irrational and extreme due to her at times obsessive devotion, honestly I would find her to be more dangerous especially with something like cocytous.

That said incestuous yandere are awesome. Go Miyuki.

Those guys she "killed" will probably also attack her (trying to make her a hostage) once Tatsuya was out of sight you know,so before Tatsuya gets nuclear and rip them apart with his bare hands,freezing them was more humane

[Ophis]

LoL, those guys were terrorists that had no qualms in killing and brainwashing students at all. And to make things worse, after their leader tried to brainwash Tatsuya and order him to kill Miyuki with his own hands, they even tried to backstab him. Any normal person would want to rip those guys to pieces. Just the fact alone that they did no die almost makes Miyuki a saint.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Ophis

LoL, those guys were terrorists that had no qualms in killing and brainwashing students at all. And to make things worse, after their leader tried to brainwash Tatsuya and order him to kill Miyuki with his own hands, they even tried to backstab him. Any normal person would want to rip those guys to pieces. Just the fact alone that they did no die almost makes Miyuki a saint.

You guys are either misremembering or glossing over the fact, which ever one it is, one guy tried to attack Tatsuya from behind, and promptly got frozen killing any spirit the rest had left, and Tatsuya even told her to calm down.

Tatsuya than walks away knowing the situation is over, Miyuki is the one, who then when she is alone with the guys says, you should have not attacked my brother, and proceeds to freeze/kill them. Regardless of what they did in the past, at that point they were broken and probably would have just stayed there until rounded up, and she freezes them for a petty reason, even more so because she knows how powerful tatsuya is, and of how little threat they were.

hell he even had to heal them using his regeneration magic.

Like I said I don't really have an issue with her actions, but between her and Tatsuya I think she can be far more dangerous due to her emotions and attitudes.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You guys are either misremembering or glossing over the fact, which ever one it is, one guy tried to attack Tatsuya from behind, and promptly got frozen killing any spirit the rest had left, and Tatsuya even told her to calm down.

Tatsuya than walks away knowing the situation is over, Miyuki is the one, who then when she is alone with the guys says, you should have not attacked my brother, and proceeds to freeze/kill them. Regardless of what they did in the past, at that point they were broken and probably would have just stayed there until rounded up, and she freezes them for a petty reason, even more so because she knows how powerful tatsuya is, and of how little threat they were.

hell he even had to heal them using his regeneration magic.

Like I said I don't really have an issue with her actions, but between her and Tatsuya I think she can be far more dangerous due to her emotions and attitudes.

I know what was the reason that made Miyuki lose her cool in that situation, but it's still a fact that she was truly pissed at them even before that. The way I see it, the guy trying to attack Tatsuya was just the last straw. I do agree that Miyuki can be pretty dangerous sometimes, but she never went overboard with her actions against non-villain people. Even if they attacked Tatsuya.

By the way, I see that you're trying to using the anime as source to argue. Please, don't do that. That thing about Tatsuya healing the terrorists was completely anime original.

Personally, I think that both Miyuki and Tatsuya are equally dangerous in regards when it comes to one another. Harm one of them and the other will show you hell. Although I think that Tatsuya is slightly more dangerous in this case.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You guys are either misremembering or glossing over the fact, which ever one it is, one guy tried to attack Tatsuya from behind, and promptly got frozen killing any spirit the rest had left, and Tatsuya even told her to calm down.

Tatsuya than walks away knowing the situation is over, Miyuki is the one, who then when she is alone with the guys says, you should have not attacked my brother, and proceeds to freeze/kill them. Regardless of what they did in the past, at that point they were broken and probably would have just stayed there until rounded up, and she freezes them for a petty reason, even more so because she knows how powerful tatsuya is, and of how little threat they were.

hell he even had to heal them using his regeneration magic.

Like I said I don't really have an issue with her actions, but between her and Tatsuya I think she can be far more dangerous due to her emotions and attitudes.

lol,those guys are terrorist,and you want Miyuki to just watch over them?What Tatsuya meant was that they are not suited for Miyuki to soil her hands dirty,but freezing them was the right thing to do,as they might try to overpower her.

btw it's ok for Tatsuya to rip terrorist to pieces or punch them full of holes,but it's not ok for Miyuki to restrain them?lol

[Fairy Water]

Originally Posted by pampz21

But according to vol. 17 he didnt even bother reconnecting to his friends and just took everything Erika did for him for granted. It pissed me off real bad. Thats why Tatsuya is shit. Unless proven wrong I'am dissappointed with onii-sama.

Tatsuya is a god of shit

Anyway, how could he turns back into such cold hearted person? He just became yasashi recently (Miyuki commented) and cared a lots for his friends in many past volumes

Is this really a guy who tried cheer Erika up many times? The guy who asked his dear sister bought food for his friends cause they were busy with practicing? Is this a guy who like to chat with Mikihiko?... the more I listed the more I realize how all of his friend circle got Tat's care

Tat is acting like a pathetic loner with the way of thinking 'I don't need anyone as long as xxx is with me'
WTH, Satou? Could it be Tat already unlocked the final stage of siscon? Level 9999?

More humane or not, I used to be so glad for him that his emotion is developing but thanks Vol17, it came back to 0

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Fairy Water

Tatsuya is a god of shit

Anyway, how could he turns back into such cold hearted person? He just became yasashi recently (Miyuki commented) and cared a lots for his friends in many past volumes

Is this really a guy who tried cheer Erika up many times? The guy who asked his dear sister bought food for his friends cause they were busy with practicing? Is this a guy who like to chat with Mikihiko?... the more I listed the more I realize how all of his friend circle got Tat's care

Tat is acting like a pathetic loner with the way of thinking 'I don't need anyone as long as xxx is with me'
WTH, Satou? Could it be Tat already unlocked the final stage of siscon? Level 9999?

More humane or not, I used to be so glad for him that his emotion is developing but thanks Vol17, it came back to 0

His emotions were not developing,sometimes his actions are for show or misinterpreted by other characters or the logical thing to do or say.Every action he took was logical not on a emotional level,aside for Miyuki.Cheered Erika?Logical way to do for someone you consider a friend,same with Mikihiko in the 4SC arc.In Visitors,Leo got hurt,but Tatsuya really didn't took action,until Mikihiko called him in volume 9.Wanted to protect his friends in volumes 14-15,?Logical way to do for persons he considers friends,aside from protection,they wouldn't be used as a bargaining chip against him,if they were taken hostage,and Miyuki might feel guilty if anyone of them got hurt.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Fairy Water

Tatsuya is a god of shit

Anyway, how could he turns back into such cold hearted person? He just became yasashi recently (Miyuki commented) and cared a lots for his friends in many past volumes

Is this really a guy who tried cheer Erika up many times? The guy who asked his dear sister bought food for his friends cause they were busy with practicing? Is this a guy who like to chat with Mikihiko?... the more I listed the more I realize how all of his friend circle got Tat's care

Tat is acting like a pathetic loner with the way of thinking 'I don't need anyone as long as xxx is with me'
WTH, Satou? Could it be Tat already unlocked the final stage of siscon? Level 9999?

More humane or not, I used to be so glad for him that his emotion is developing but thanks Vol17, it came back to 0

It seems you clearly have a rather bad understanding of Tatsuya's character to be saying this shitload of nonsense.

Tatsuya did nothing wrong to them. If his friends start to avoid him just because of his family background, then they're not true friends at all. Why would Tatsuya need to be the one to run after his 'friends' that are avoiding him because of such a petty reason?

Tatsuya has always been a logical person. Even if he does care for his friends, he will still give them the cold-shoulder if they do the same to him.

By the way, you should not take pampz nonsense seriously. Tatsuya never expected anything of Erika is this regard. He simply thought that if him being a Yotsuba was enough to make his friends start to avoid him, then he doesn't need such petty 'friends' at all.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by pampz21

But according to vol. 17 he didnt even bother reconnecting to his friends and just took everything Erika did for him for granted. It pissed me off real bad. Thats why Tatsuya is shit. Unless proven wrong I'am dissappointed with onii-sama.

I think we need to take a step back here. Since the beginning of this series, has not Tatsuya fulfilled his duty as a friend? Did he not save Mikihiko from despair? Did he not act as a confidant for Erika? Did he not demonstrate concern when Leo was injured against the parasites? Yet when the first cat was out of the bag, they turned on him, ostracized him.

He didn't bother to reconnect? No way. They're the ones that need to reconnect with him. Last I checked Tatsuya never asked for her intervention, much less knew about it, and her words smacked sense into them to do what they should've done.

Originally Posted by Fairy Water

Tatsuya is a god of shit

Anyway, how could he turns back into such cold hearted person? He just became yasashi recently (Miyuki commented) and cared a lots for his friends in many past volumes

Is this really a guy who tried cheer Erika up many times? The guy who asked his dear sister bought food for his friends cause they were busy with practicing? Is this a guy who like to chat with Mikihiko?... the more I listed the more I realize how all of his friend circle got Tat's care

Tat is acting like a pathetic loner with the way of thinking 'I don't need anyone as long as xxx is with me'
WTH, Satou? Could it be Tat already unlocked the final stage of siscon? Level 9999?

More humane or not, I used to be so glad for him that his emotion is developing but thanks Vol17, it came back to 0

I think we all need to get it through our heads that Tatsuya is literally incapable of give two fucks about it. He's not "acting" like a loner. He doesn't need anyone other than Miyuki. That's pretty much been Satou's motto since volume 4.

I can't believe they actually had the nerve to act the way they did. We all know Tatsuya wouldn't care for their secrets. Erika is the daughter of two generations of eloping. Mizuki's got eyes people would kill for. Mikihiko was a powerless, walking sack of turd. Leo's only three quarters human and the son of yakuza.

But you know what really pisses me off? Their friend got engaged to the girl of every straight man's dreams and they didn't even congratulate him.

[MRD143]

Where does it mention that Leo is the son of a Yakuza I must have missed that.