To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 13 Discussion / Poll

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

like you said, we dont know, maybe they are alpha-reality manipulators who become nigh omnipotent :/

To do that you would probably have to be.... LevelSeven.... .... sorry... <heads back into the cave>

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

2) If WR is anything like IB, then it cannot be stolen and will make Kakeru's arm regrow if it is destroyed. Fiamma taking Kakeru's arm would only lead to a repeat of what happened in Volume 22.

This isn't really certain. When Fiamma took Touma's arm, it integrated just fine. The reason the arm returned to Touma is because he used the massive power that resides within him to crush IT then regrow the arm himself. This is why Fiamma was baffled. Touma had, for a moment, the power to save or destroy the world (this part sounds almost like a magic god) and he threw it away to regain the imagine breaker. There is nothing suggesting that Kakeru has anything like what Touma inside of him.

[Apoptosis]

The most powerup Touma can get is probably boxing lessons.

[DragonXX]

To what I seen in the LN the way to gotting power-up like Accel wings, is a better understanding of one self or one power that how Accel black wings turn white in WWIII, which is not that must of a surprize if you look at the teaching of Crowley in real life, at this moment to what I see is that Touma is on his own path to understanding himself (NT9) but not on the path to understanding his power but the Magic God were giving him some good understanding of what Image Breaker can do and Mikoto herself said if Touma did what he was going to do in NT13 to stop the comic something huge would of change in Image Breaker but that was just the feeling she get.

But someone said it best in this already and that the biggest thing in Toaru majutsu no Index,
the more knowledge you have in this series the greater power you will have

which mean as forshadow by Pendex form, Index could become one of the strougest character in this series if she gain the knowledge that she can use magic which is what the Chruch of England fears most and they are down one remote because of WWIII.

It also why Mikoto have never gain a powerup in this series because even those she had knowledge she does nothing which it, so she will not have to leave her own World, Example she know how Evil AC can be because of the sister arc but right after the Arc she put that to the back of her mind, even that one girl in Railgun Daihaseisai Arc said how she was putting the Dark Side of AC to the back of her mind not thinking of it, and no matter how many time she see Magic she does not want to believe it real even which all fact in front of her face, even Accel came to understand there are power outside of AC Esper but didn't truely learn it was Magic until NT2 but everytime Mikoto see it she which not to believe in it, even in NT13 she still does not want to believe in Magic because if she try to see that there is truely more to the world then her little world it would pop her little world open but she may of started entering that path after NT13 but we will not see until the next few volumes.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

To do that you would probably have to be.... LevelSeven.... .... sorry... <heads back into the cave>

nah, lvl7 is the goal of aleister XD

Originally Posted by DragonXX

To what I seen in the LN the way to gotting power-up like Accel wings, is a better understanding of one self or one power that how Accel black wings turn white in WWIII,

i think this only works for awakening, fiamma got power up with new equipment :/

It also why Mikoto have never gain a powerup in this series because even those she had knowledge she does nothing which it, so she will not have to leave her own World, Example she know how Evil AC can be because of the sister arc but right after the Arc she put that to the back of her mind,

you cant blame mikoto for this, the whole crew of "heroes" is doing this on a regular basis :/

even Accel came to understand there are power outside of AC Esper but didn't truely learn it was Magic until NT2

he was aware that is was "magic", but he didnt know what "magic" was...

but everytime Mikoto see it she which not to believe in it,

blame kamachi, someone with her intellect (because of tokiwadai and great marks) should be at least find cluas in hr outside-of-AC-adventures but the author constantly prevends it :/

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

This isn't really certain. When Fiamma took Touma's arm, it integrated just fine. The reason the arm returned to Touma is because he used the massive power that resides within him to crush IT then regrow the arm himself. This is why Fiamma was baffled. Touma had, for a moment, the power to save or destroy the world (this part sounds almost like a magic god) and he threw it away to regain the imagine breaker. There is nothing suggesting that Kakeru has anything like what Touma inside of him.

Not so. First of all, we've seen from Railgun that Touma's arm can regrow without any conscious effort on his part. Heck, it even reattached itself after being crushed off him in Volume NT4, when he was unconscious at the time. IB chose Touma and will always return to him in time. Touma just made it happen faster in Volume 22, but it would have happened eventually.

Second, Kakeru owned the entirety of true Gremlin and his power has been stated to come from the wishes that IB could not contain. I'm pretty sure he has plenty of power inside of himself. If anything, right now it looks as if he has more than Touma.

[Kuroageha]

Wait, of course it can regrow but it's a very slow process unlike when he does so willingly.

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Wait, of course it can regrow but it's a very slow process unlike when he does so willingly.

I wouldn't call it a very slow process. After unleashing the Dragons in Railgun, his arm came back, right as rain, before either he or Mikoto could even think to have it treated. Touma was as surprised as her by this fact, so he clearly wasn't regrowing it on purpose.

Anyway, my point is that IB is essentially impossible to steal. You could, in theory (but not in practice; God knows people have tried), kill Touma to have IB pass on to its next host, but even then, chances are it won't choose the kind of person who would kill for power. If WR is anything like IB, and chances are it is, then Fiamma won't be getting a replacement arm that way anytime soon.

Besides, even if Fiamma somehow got and kept the WR arm, the Holy Right is so hilariously underpowered in comparison, he would have no reason to use the power he was born with ever again. Using WR to bring out the full power of the HR would be like using the Death Star to power a stun gun.

[devil_slayer]

i also think that level 6 is little overhyped i don't think that the level 6 really can compete with the magic gods i mean the strongest espers right now is accel and kakien and i doubt either of them can below a Continent let alone below a planet i don't see them get a billion time stronger just because they reach the level 6

by the the magic gods after they got nerfed by Aleister are weaker than othius right ?

[devil_slayer]

i don't know why you guys see aceel 's wing not a power up
when he face aiwass he was owend and aiwass say that accel is not on the same level as kazakiri but with white wings he on her level if not stronger than that

power ups is when the characters Suddenly become stronger and that happened with a lot of toaru characters like aceel - kakien - fimma - takitsubo

toaru is closer to the shounen series

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

i don't know why you guys see aceel 's wing not a power up
when he face aiwass he was owend and aiwass say that accel is not on the same level as kazakiri but with white wings he on her level if not stronger than that

It's a power up, but not an usual shounen power up. Why? Because his wings are a natural result of him understanding better his power and beginning to climb the steps to Level 6 by gaining angelic properties instead of a general "I'm 10x stronger now because reasons".

This evolution it's actually part of the plot of the series instead of just a plot device to make the character stronger in order to beat the current enemy. It's also way more dependent on the changes he went through as a person than his powers getting stronger. He also hasn't recovered from his nerfing so far.

power ups is when the characters Suddenly become stronger and that happened with a lot of toaru characters like aceel - kakien - fimma - takitsubo

It hasn't happened to that many characters. Some of them even lost whatever increased their power or it was merely temporary. Off the top of my head, characters who have received power ups in the series and have actually kept them: Accel, Kakine, Etzali, Takitsubo, Awaki, Mugino and, maybe, Cendrillon.

I already covered Accel above, but Kakine's "awakening" was him repeating what Accelerator did, gaining a better understanding of his powers when he saw Accel's wings. Not that it matters because it amounted to nothing and didn't change the situation at all. His new body and self-duplication abilities later were merely him learning another way to use his power, his powers didn't get stronger, just more creative like Accelerator did when he realized he could manipulate wind. That creativity also inmediately received a nerf since Beetle 05 cannot self-duplicate too much without risking the original personality coming to the surface again.

Fiamma only received a power up when he reached LPSAD status. What happened with that? He quickly lost it after fixing the world's distortions and inmediately was nerfed. He's still weaker than he was originally. Awaki only received a massaging device, her powers didn't get stronger. Mugino got her cyborg implants. Cendrillon gained a more flexible body, but we have no idea if that made her stronger.

Etzali gained two grimoires. Takitsubo's powers are slowly growing stronger (which contradicts the sudden nature you claim), mainly because her body got better after being healed of the damage Body Crystal caused her.

toaru is closer to the shounen series

If you are using shounen as a demographic, yes, toaru is shounen. If you are using shounen to refer to the battle series genre defined by series like Dragon Ball or the Big 3, nope, it's not that close to them for several reasons.

Power ups are incredibly scarce, nerfings are a lot more common. Any fight of importance is almost always actually explained, reasoned and solved by more than "Character A is stronger than Character B". Ability compatibilities, environment, tactics, cooperation between allies and the fighter's mental state deciding the battle instead of raw power is a common thing instead of a once-in-a-blue-moon ocurrence.

Screaming the name of your attack is also not used except for short magic incantations some magicians use and Gunha's attacks, which are done for comedy. No training montages either.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

It's a power up, but not an usual shounen power up. Why? Because his wings are a natural result of him understanding better his power and beginning to climb the steps to Level 6 by gaining angelic properties instead of a general "I'm 10x stronger now because reasons".

nah, this isnt really that unique,
the MC from boku no hero academia has pretty much the same issue :/ (not wings but the "bringing out more of 'my' real power)

This evolution it's actually part of the plot of the series instead of just a plot device to make the character stronger in order to beat the current enemy. It's also way more dependent on the changes he went through as a person than his powers getting stronger.

true...but shouting helps (Vol.15 )

He also hasn't recovered from his nerfing so far.

he mostlikely never will :/

It hasn't happened to that many characters. Some of them even lost whatever increased their power or it was merely temporary. Off the top of my head, characters who have received power ups in the series and have actually kept them: Accel, Kakine, Etzali, Takitsubo, Awaki, Mugino and, maybe, Cendrillon.

agree with everyone except awaki, i cant remember her becoming stronger in any way :/ do you mean the machine on her neck?

I already covered Accel above, but Kakine's "awakening" was him repeating what Accelerator did, gaining a better understanding of his powers when he saw Accel's wings.

it is a bit different, accel never got some sort of intuitive conscious understanding of his powers, in his case he matured with his mind which directly influenced his "hidden(?)"(if they are his and not some kind of aleister-caused-stuff) powers...

If you are using shounen as a demographic, yes, toaru is shounen.

it belongs to the "intelligent"-shounen series which show up sometimes, i would say it is more complicated but comparable to world trigger and others like that :/

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Time is described as "a single string and a myriad of pins". The string is the stacked history until the present. The pins are the multiple choices/possible futures. Time flow can be represented by taking the string and hooking it to a pin. Then to another pin. Then to a third, etc...

In that case, it's possible that if someone has control of this, they are able to tinker with the time flow and change the outcome/possible result of the future and past, isn't it?

Also, I'm a little confused regarding phases. Religions are (sort of) tied to them, so when Othinus ended the world, did she erase Heaven and Hell? since that's mentioned to be a phase.

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by ACertainStark

Also, I'm a little confused regarding phases. Religions are (sort of) tied to them, so when Othinus ended the world, did she erase Heaven and Hell? since that's mentioned to be a phase.

Everything points to that she did, since the blank world is described as the blank canvas result of all other phases being erased. As far as we know the only other things left were True Gremlin's hidden phase and the Pure World.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Everything points to that she did, since the blank world is described as the blank canvas result of all other phases being erased. As far as we know the only other things left were True Gremlin's hidden phase and the Pure World.

but who would be aleister if not in true gremlin, pure world or black void? he clearly existed during NT9 :/ (i dont think he got to the pure world, i dont even really get what that orld is (a place without reality warping powers?) )

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Everything points to that she did, since the blank world is described as the blank canvas result of all other phases being erased. As far as we know the only other things left were True Gremlin's hidden phase and the Pure World.

That clears things up. Thanks, LazyHunter.

[Kenju of the Right]

So finally got around to reading NT13, damn that was enjoyable. To the funny scenes at the beginning and the talk with the High Priest about Touma and his connection with IB. That cool chase battle throughout the volume reminded me of a mix of Zashiki Warashi & Heavy Object, there were alot of cool tricks used in that. I mean though i could do without the Acrobike manual.

Fiamma was.....there....I was hyped at first too like damn. And of course there was more talk about Touma's character, one of the great new things about NT. There were several parts where i was saying "See this is why Kamijou-san is the best"

I really did like the set up for the final confrontation where everything came together. Shit im going to miss High Priest though, him slamming down that truth was so raw.

That goddamn Golden Retriever though, yeah he was smooth as fucking ice but this attack on the magic side has to stop!

As expected Kakeru was cool with that introduction, hyped for the next volume.

oh yeah and as expected more foreshadowing on Touma losing someone

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Everything points to that she did, since the blank world is described as the blank canvas result of all other phases being erased. As far as we know the only other things left were True Gremlin's hidden phase and the Pure World.

I know this is dredging up an old conversation but by converse, that would also mean she brought all of the phases she erased (e.g. Heaven and Hell, Amaravati, etc) when she returned to the phase we're familiar with, right? Otherwise, Marian would not have been able to do what she did with Dainsleif.

[Kuroageha]

Well, that's assuming she could do all of that, or at least what she perceived as "I did this".

I think the black word isn't the original canvas that is called the World.

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by Hiss13

I know this is dredging up an old conversation but by converse, that would also mean she brought all of the phases she erased (e.g. Heaven and Hell, Amaravati, etc) when she returned to the phase we're familiar with, right? Otherwise, Marian would not have been able to do what she did with Dainsleif.

Yes, because otherwise there would be no phases for Marian to cut.

[dniv]

One casual theory that I just came up with is as follows: maybe it's the case that Touma has a sort of memory loss when it comes to events concerning the IT inside his IB. I'm supposing that it could be possible that he has selective memory loss of these events in a way similar to how he doesn't remember anything about Misaki after he finishes talking to her or possibly in a way similar to how Saint Germain would overwrite his own memories. That'd explain a lot of things... like why Touma would not inquire deeper into the nature of his right hand and why he is able to overcome so many traumatic situations. Lol... This theory could also explain why Touma wouldn't be able to recall any of the events where he used his right hand Very clearly... But yeah that's just a random theory that at least on the surface seems to make a decent bit of sense.