Mahouka [LN/M] - Character Speculation/Theories: Tatsuya

[Hokoga]

Originally Posted by Aciald

However in the book Tatsuya has tons of friends all of whom like and respect him. Miyuki is pretty much a loner without friends.

What?... what are you talking about Miyuki has friends there's Honoka, Shizuku and..... uhm, uh.. she has friends!

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Aciald

Has anyone noticed how the descriptions of Tatsuya and Miyuki are almost completely opposite to what occurs in the novels? Tatsuya is supposed to be an average looking loner no one really likes who is totally obsessed with his sister. Miyuki is a social butterfly loved by all who has a massive list of accomplishments proving her greatness. Or at least that is the opinion of the faceless nameless masses.

You have the choice between an unreliable narrator, the author contradicting himself or both.

A very good example of this would be how the books keep saying that magicians are suggested to marry young and have kids fast, yet that doesn't seems to be what is happening once you realize that all the parents are past their 50s with their kids not even being 20 yet. Although, that might explain the high death rate of mothers in the series...

[Zeborg]

This a case of selective memory. Tatsuya is not social, it's apparent since volume 1, chapter 1. He doesn't set out to make friends, he has gotten "friends", because his friends have actively sought to make this happen. And a friend for him, is something different than to most people. The only people who have generally respected and liked him, are this group of friends.
Miyuki on the other hand, is social, loved and respected by everyone, but doesn't generally let other people too close. Which is still closer than Tatsuya lets people get to know him. This also has to do with them hiding their identities, and Tatsuya actually laments the fact that they have to hide, because he didn't want Miyuki to live like that in volume 15. That the story is told from Tatsuya's perspective may skew your view a bit, but his demeanor is perfectly in line with how the narrator describes him.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

This a case of selective memory. Tatsuya is not social, it's apparent since volume 1, chapter 1. He doesn't set out to make friends, he has gotten "friends", because his friends have actively sought to make this happen. And a friend for him, is something different than to most people. The only people who have generally respected and liked him, are this group of friends.
Miyuki on the other hand, is social, loved and respected by everyone, but doesn't generally let other people too close. Which is still closer than Tatsuya lets people get to know him. This also has to do with them hiding their identities, and Tatsuya actually laments the fact that they have to hide, because he didn't want Miyuki to live like that in volume 15. That the story is told from Tatsuya's perspective may skew your view a bit, but his demeanor is perfectly in line with how the narrator describes him.

You think Miyuki is more popular and respected among the characters in the novel that actually have names and speak occasionally?

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by Aciald

You think Miyuki is more popular and respected among the characters in the novel that actually have names and speak occasionally?

Probably among the minds of most of them. Tatsuya hides his entire identity and abilities from everyone, much more so than Miyuki. But it's not a straight up comparison like that, for instance Tatsuya's opinion on magic theories or obscure subjects probably carry a lot more weight, whereas the competence and ability of Miyuki is plain for everyone to see. For instance, Miyuki's respect for Tatsuya's ability is generally seen as biased.

But, you're free to form your own opinions, I'm not particularly interested in comparing something this inconsequential.

[Echizen777]

Tatsuya appears to be more human than Miyuki as well, and tis despite his modified emotions. I would not say that he is very social but he has a good circle of friends, Miyuki on the contrary seems to only have two friends and fanboys/fangirls.

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Tatsuya appears to be more human than Miyuki as well, and tis despite his modified emotions. I would not say that he is very social but he has a good circle of friends, Miyuki on the contrary seems to only have two friends and fanboys/fangirls.

Tatsuya definitely seems and is, less humane than Miyuki. According to him, he doesn't really even care if his schoolmates get massacred. His bonds with his friends are frail, and easy for him to cast aside. His interactions never seem humane, he never demonstrates true emotion for obvious reason, he doesn't even really smile at all.
And, Miyuki's friendship with Honoka and Shizuku is much greater than Tatsuya's relationship with any of his friends.
I don't think it's possible to think that Tatsuya appears more humane than Miyuki if you just read Mahouka normally.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

Tatsuya definitely seems and is, less humane than Miyuki. According to him, he doesn't really even care if his schoolmates get massacred. His bonds with his friends are frail, and easy for him to cast aside. His interactions never seem humane, he never demonstrates true emotion for obvious reason, he doesn't even really smile at all.
And, Miyuki's friendship with Honoka and Shizuku is much greater than Tatsuya's relationship with any of his friends.
I don't think it's possible to think that Tatsuya appears more humane than Miyuki if you just read Mahouka normally.

I read it normally, Tatsuya has shown that he cares about his friends much more than what you are saying and he's not that cold. There are barely scenes displaying Miyuki and her friendship with the two others, and I read the Yuutousei manga, most of her thoughts are about Tatsuya.

[Zeborg]

Tatsuya is the main character, you shouldn't compare the screen time he gets to other characters. The fact that he doesn't care if his schoolmates get killed is in the novels, I'm not making him out to be cold, that's how he's written. And even still he never acts warmly with his friends, only with Miyuki. It's emotionally impossible for him to love his friends like normal people, it's not an opinion.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

Tatsuya is the main character, you shouldn't compare the screen time he gets to other characters. The fact that he doesn't care if his schoolmates get killed is in the novels, I'm not making him out to be cold, that's how he's written. And even still he never acts warmly with his friends, only with Miyuki. It's emotionally impossible for him to love his friends like normal people, it's not an opinion.

From Yokohama Disturbance part 2
"Even if setting the average situation as a prerequisite, this main hall
wasn't secure either. Normally, he would leading Miyuki to the resting area to escape danger. Yet now, there were Erika and Mizuki in the audience stands. Although he was only responsible for Miyuki's protection, he didn't want to act solely out of duty."

Actually, he isn't written that way. Yes, in the end he will choose Miyuki over anyone else, but he does care about his friends.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

Tatsuya is the main character, you shouldn't compare the screen time he gets to other characters. The fact that he doesn't care if his schoolmates get killed is in the novels, I'm not making him out to be cold, that's how he's written. And even still he never acts warmly with his friends, only with Miyuki. It's emotionally impossible for him to love his friends like normal people, it's not an opinion.

The only thing Tatsuya can't feel is strong emotions and urges (in vol 8 it list them as strong anger, deep sorrow, intense jealousy, grudges, hatred, hungering appetite, sexual lust, blind love). In other word, Tatsuya's capacity to feel emotion is normal outside of impulses (unless the impulses are related to his brotherly love/duty for Miyuki).

He acts warmly to Erika every time he is trying to cheer her up and also to Honoka a few times. There is plenty of time where he was anxious about his friends status as well, like when Leo was attacked by the parasite.

Miyuki always come first because he was brainwashed to do so in his Guardian training, but he won't ignore his friends if he can.

[Echizen777]

Aciald and azaharl said everything.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by azarhal

The only thing Tatsuya can't feel is strong emotions and urges (in vol 8 it list them as strong anger, deep sorrow, intense jealousy, grudges, hatred, hungering appetite, sexual lust, blind love). In other word, Tatsuya's capacity to feel emotion is normal outside of impulses (unless the impulses are related to his brotherly love/duty for Miyuki).

He acts warmly to Erika every time he is trying to cheer her up and also to Honoka a few times. There is plenty of time where he was anxious about his friends status as well, like when Leo was attacked by the parasite.

Miyuki always come first because he was brainwashed to do so in his Guardian training, but he won't ignore his friends if he can.

But according to vol. 17 he didnt even bother reconnecting to his friends and just took everything Erika did for him for granted. It pissed me off real bad. Thats why Tatsuya is shit. Unless proven wrong I'am dissappointed with onii-sama.

[Zeborg]

I've seen this exact same issue discussed before. What Tatsuya would consider a friend is different from normal people. He is able to like people as well as dislike but he wouldn't care for them in the same way a normal person would.

The example you have from Yokohama, has Tatsuya walking out with Miyuki immediately after they've dispatched the enemies, without any further care for his friends. And they're stopped by Erika and Leo.

What I mean about Tatsuyas mindstate not being an opinion are things like these:

Spoiler for quote:

Even if he knew about Sanada and Yanagi's surreptitious intervention
to avoid a massacre, Tatsuya's actions likely wouldn't differ by much.
To be blunt, even if dozens of foreign spectators were slain, Tatsuya
probably couldn't care less.
To be precise, even if a senpai from the same school was sacrificed,
his emotional reaction would not surpass that of slight "regret". Thus,
it was hard to imagine he would choose to act.

To say he is more humane than Miyuki, is just not even remotely true. He is probably the coldest and most inhumane character in the entire series.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by pampz21

But according to vol. 17 he didnt even bother reconnecting to his friends and just took everything Erika did for him for granted. It pissed me off real bad. Thats why Tatsuya is shit. Unless proven wrong I'am dissappointed with onii-sama.

HAH! I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that. Tatsuya and Miyuki were total jerks to their friends. Not even bothering to make a phone call in warning and then sitting around ignoring everyone. I mean, whatever the reason, if you have been lying to your friends for 2 years you owe them an explanation and an apology.

[tigerdave]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

I've seen this exact same issue discussed before. What Tatsuya would consider a friend is different from normal people. He is able to like people as well as dislike but he wouldn't care for them in the same way a normal person would.

The example you have from Yokohama, has Tatsuya walking out with Miyuki immediately after they've dispatched the enemies, without any further care for his friends. And they're stopped by Erika and Leo.

What I mean about Tatsuyas mindstate not being an opinion are things like these:

Spoiler for quote:

Even if he knew about Sanada and Yanagi's surreptitious intervention
to avoid a massacre, Tatsuya's actions likely wouldn't differ by much.
To be blunt, even if dozens of foreign spectators were slain, Tatsuya
probably couldn't care less.
To be precise, even if a senpai from the same school was sacrificed,
his emotional reaction would not surpass that of slight "regret". Thus,
it was hard to imagine he would choose to act.

To say he is more humane than Miyuki, is just not even remotely true. He is probably the coldest and most inhumane character in the entire series.

It kind of depends on how you look at Tatsuya's situation. He lacks the ability to feel urges and only has strong emotions left for Miyuki, we all know this. Tatsuya has no choice but to value Miyuki above all else. In contrast, Miyuki has full emotional capabilities yet only truly cares about Tatsuya. She is able to care about anything, love anyone, cherish whatever she wants to. Even with this available to her, she chooses to only care about Tatsuya. Honoka, Shizuku, and everyone else in their circle of friends could die and Miyuki would be fine as long as she still has Tatsuya. Let's not forget that Miyuki was okay with a large number of her peers (including her classmates) dying so long as Tatsuya did not suffer at the hands of the parasite dolls in volume 13. At Yokohoma, she had a kneejerk reaction to Kei and Kirihara being gravely injured and begged her brother to heal them. Yet, the more she thought about it later, the more she regretted it because Tatsuya went through tremendous pain. I think, given the opportunity to make that decision again, she would have chosen to let Kei die and Kirihara lose his leg. In my opinion, the person who makes a conscious choice to love and care about only one individual at the expense of everything else is more ruthless and inhumane than the person who is that way due to an inability to even make that choice.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

It kind of depends on how you look at Tatsuya's situation. He lacks the ability to feel urges and only has strong emotions left for Miyuki, we all know this. Tatsuya has no choice but to value Miyuki above all else. In contrast, Miyuki has full emotional capabilities yet only truly cares about Tatsuya. She is able to care about anything, love anyone, cherish whatever she wants to. Even with this available to her, she chooses to only care about Tatsuya. Honoka, Shizuku, and everyone else in their circle of friends could die and Miyuki would be fine as long as she still has Tatsuya. Let's not forget that Miyuki was okay with a large number of her peers (including her classmates) dying so long as Tatsuya did not suffer at the hands of the parasite dolls in volume 13. At Yokohoma, she had a kneejerk reaction to Kei and Kirihara being gravely injured and begged her brother to heal them. Yet, the more she thought about it later, the more she regretted it because Tatsuya went through tremendous pain. I think, given the opportunity to make that decision again, she would have chosen to let Kei die and Kirihara lose his leg. In my opinion, the person who makes a conscious choice to love and care about only one individual at the expense of everything else is more ruthless and inhumane than the person who is that way due to an inability to even make that choice.

So you're saying that Miyuki is not humane because she doesn't want to sacrifice her loved one for the sake of people she either barely knows or don't know at all? If the well being of the people you love is not more important to you than random unknown people, then you simply don't love them at all. That's what I call inhumane.

At no point did Miyuki show regret at asking for Tatsuya to save Kei and Kirihara. She was just angry with herself for asking something unreasonable of her brother; knowing full well the consequences of using Regrowth. Feeling 150 times the pain of having your leg blow off, and the blast of a grenade's shrapnel on your back, is no laughing matter. A normal person would probably die from shock.

About the P Dolls incident, Miyuki never asked for Tatsuya to just abandon the students. She knew full well how much overloaded was Tatsuya, and that there was no need for him to act on that day. Miyuki sent him off to accomplish his duty on the next day just fine.

I seriously can't follow you guys' twisted logic. Nobody would want to see their loved ones sacrificing their well being for the sake of others, much less for unknown people. Miyuki never disliked Tatsuya helping others, she actually supports it. But when his health is at risk, it's another matter entirely.

Really, the Mahouka threads never stop to amaze me.

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

It kind of depends on how you look at Tatsuya's situation. He lacks the ability to feel urges and only has strong emotions left for Miyuki, we all know this. Tatsuya has no choice but to value Miyuki above all else. In contrast, Miyuki has full emotional capabilities yet only truly cares about Tatsuya. She is able to care about anything, love anyone, cherish whatever she wants to. Even with this available to her, she chooses to only care about Tatsuya. Honoka, Shizuku, and everyone else in their circle of friends could die and Miyuki would be fine as long as she still has Tatsuya. Let's not forget that Miyuki was okay with a large number of her peers (including her classmates) dying so long as Tatsuya did not suffer at the hands of the parasite dolls in volume 13. At Yokohoma, she had a kneejerk reaction to Kei and Kirihara being gravely injured and begged her brother to heal them. Yet, the more she thought about it later, the more she regretted it because Tatsuya went through tremendous pain. I think, given the opportunity to make that decision again, she would have chosen to let Kei die and Kirihara lose his leg. In my opinion, the person who makes a conscious choice to love and care about only one individual at the expense of everything else is more ruthless and inhumane than the person who is that way due to an inability to even make that choice.

Well the question was; is Tatsuya less humane than Miyuki. And, we can pretty comfortably say that he is. While Miyuki is also very cold occasionally, she also has feelings like getting depressed after freezing her enemies in the enrollment arc, asking Tatsuya to heal their friends, like in your example and to arrange protection for their friends. Tatsuya will go and kill countless numbers of people, if they're even mildly involved in threatening the safety of Miyuki and not sacrifice a moments thought for any of it. Many times, there is absolutely nothing humane about his actions.
I think the author is clearly, intentionally trying to write Miyuki as the more emotional and social of the pair to foil Tatsuya's general aloofness and indifference. And also to serve as the means to move Tatsuya, within the story. If there was no Miyuki, Tatsuya wouldn't even have bothered with coming to highschool or much less, human interaction.

I don't think your way is the correct way of looking at it. If a robot got turned into a merciless killing machine, it's still a merciless killing machine. Then you compare it to a serial killer, it doesn't really matter how they got there, at the end of the day they're both merciless killing machines. And that's what we're talking about. But, in any case, Miyuki doesn't have the capacity for the kind of things that Tatsuya has. So it's not a fair comparison. For Miyuki, Tatsuya being her most important person is something a lot more normal, than it is for Tatsuya. And what makes Tatsuya inhumane, isn't just his protectiveness and single mindedness concerning Miyuki.

[Echizen777]

So, you are saying that Tatsuya is less human than Miyuki because he would not care if several senpais died? That was in volume 4 IIRC, and in volume 10 Miyuki herself pointed out how quickly he befriended Lina and was worrying about her, Tatsuya usually considers the situation of the others before taking a decision, he does what he can to protect his friends, I don't see how you can say that he views friendship differently from the others. Miyuki instead has normal emotions but willfully devote herself to Tatsuya, she is totally obsessed by him.

[pyramidekheops]

Miyuki is obsseded with but is she the only one ? I don't think. Maya, honoka, the branch heads of yotsuba clan and maybe someone else !!!!