Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury - Anime Episode Discussion

[kuroyanagi]

Norea told Suletta last episode that Sophie dying was not her fault, but all of a sudden Nika, who basically sat out the events of last episode, is responsible? I had to rewatch the episode twice to confirm that no, I did not miss anything, this is just Norea lashing out at whoever is handy and can't fight back while conveniently ignoring the actual perpetrators standing behind her.

The scene with the kids making a makeshift grave for Sophie also felt extremely bitter when we know that she basically died by Gundam-assisted suicide, ignoring retreat orders and goading Suletta into fighting.

Next episode, Guel and Olcott bond while crossing a desert, I guess?

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Norea believes Nika is responsible for Dawn of Fold being known by the corpo, but that was all Shaddiq. Also, looks like she is a prisoner of Shaddiq as much as Nika is now. She rally showed her age there. They are both so f***ed. I'm calling it, Shaddiq clearly just want everything for himself, he's not doing that for Earth.

Shaddiq wants one thing: Miorine. He really believes the two of them are smart enough to fix all the solar system's problems. Classic youthful idealism. "I bet nobody has ever thought of this before! I'll bring the whole system down to fix it."

Shaddiq knew he wasn't strong enough as an individual to break into Delling's plan. He picked the time when it was starting to fall apart because of Suletta & Aerial, and invited Miorine to join him. He took her rejection rather badly, and now he's prattling on about how he's doing all this out of the good of his own heart.

He's not doing it for Earth, he's doing it for their childhood dream that Miorine realized wasn't feasible because she's the one who got shoved in a cage and saw how the world is set up. Guel has been seeing it first hand for months. That kind of eye-opening experience is not something Shaddiq has experienced yet, he's still in the playground the corporate heads set up. He came close when Earth House spanked them, but it didn't click that in the real world, he'd be dead. There's always some chaotic element capable of ruining the meticulously concocted plan.

The hothead DoF pilot was a good example. Would the Benerit Security forces just have flown past if he didn't lose his cool and fire on them first? They weren't really looking for the evac planes, they were sweeping the whole area for a base that had already been abandoned and well hidden.

[azarhal]

I just thought of something, the DoF MS pilots were wearing something to read signals on their spine/cortex. That looks like early Vanadis tech, the one shown in the old PR video where the guy is moving a big huge arm with his thoughts.

I'm starting to think that Antidote having been created for the "drone war" is a hint that Gund-arm was used in war long before the prologue. In other words, the Lfrith were not the first Gundams in the prologues, just the latest gen. That explain all the crippled people and stuff that didn't make much sense if the Gundams were still in testing phase.

Oh and digesting what Rajan said about Nortrette, Delling's plan will just turn everyone into "survival of the fittest" mindset because that's how plants survive mostly (some are even super territorial). Sure Delling, that's going to stop war...

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by azarhal

I'm starting to think that Antidote having been created for the "drone war" is a hint that Gund-arm was used in war long before the prologue. In other words, the Lfrith were not the first Gundams in the prologues, just the latest gen. That explain all the crippled people and stuff that didn't make much sense if the Gundams were still in testing phase.

The guy talking to Miorine explained exactly that. Gundams at high permet scores kill their pilots while tactically being incredible mobile suits leaps and bounds above their counterparts.

They were being used in that way too. Defeat everything else at the cost of the pilot's life, the Gundam itself is still good to go, throw in a new pilot and repeat.

Not the perspective we got in the Prologue, but now the harshness of Delling's action makes a little more sense from his perspective.

One thing I'm quite fond of about this series is the limited perspective. The audience gets lied to by omission as much as the characters do.

[Frontier]

Just our usual reminder of how much the situation on Earth sucks with people becoming refugees and living in tents and on scraps...and Guel, who has been captured by the Dawn of the Fold to be used as a hostage while still stuck in his emotional breakdown over killing his dad. Yeah, I guess that checks out .

Poor Nika. She just tried to do the right thing but everything always escalates beyond her control, and Norea blames her for Sophie's death and beats her up for it. But what does Shaddiq's team still need her for ?

Oh hey, they added Eri to the Opening! Ironically in the first episode Suletta isn't even in .

So Shaddiq is half-Earthian? And it seems like his real goal the whole time was to prop up Earth to act as a deterrent against the conflict between Earth and Space rather than continue to rely on the tension for war profiteering .

Not that I condone terrorism, setting aside the legitimate grievances Earthians have against Spacians, but the scorched Earth tactics used to deal with them seems to kill even more innocent people than the Dawn of the Fold have .

Olcott seems like a cool, noble, and reasonable guy. Behind that taciturn and straightforwardness lies a man who used to be part of Dominus but wanted to help Earth, only to lose his family in the process. Yet he's still fighting for Earth even now. Kind of curious what might be next for him .

At least Sophie got a grave...and then Seethia .

They always get screwed over by the guy with the itchy trigger finger. Who unsurprisingly was the first one to bite it! And of course the guy with the family died too in a heroic sacrifice .

Poor Guel...even when he does get into a Mobile Suit, he still doesn't accomplish anything. He tried so hard to save Seethia! I guess he did distract that one guy so Olcott could kill him .

I honestly thought Guel was going to join the group and fight for Earth, but I guess going back into space to clean up his company's mess will bring him back into the plot and into the lives of the main cast .

So Delling was someone who had fought so long in war and lost so much that he was desperate to try and curtail it in any way possible, even if that meant carrying out a Witch Hunt and destroying all Gundam. But failing that, he fell in love with the dream of a Botanist who thought she could solve the problem with war by using plants as an example (and maybe even fell in love with her too). But after her death he couldn't properly be a father to Miorine or deal with the death of his wife because there was always some conflict he needed to take care of and he only had Miorine and Quiet Zero left in his life, so he left Miorine's safety up to the marriage duels that would keep her out of it and backed by one of the three big companies. Yet this assistant guy is reasonable enough that he wants Miorine to do what she wants rather than following the path set for her by her family. What will Miorine do ?

[frubam]

Originally Posted by kuroyanagi

Next episode, Guel and Olcott bond while crossing a desert, I guess?

Great. Sounds like another gut punch to Guel incoming.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Frontier

But what does Shaddiq's team still need her for ?

Shaddiq is going to use them* to either win points to take over the corps or as a way to get the heat off his ass.

*Norea is in the same boat as Nika. They are just pawns for Shaddiq.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Frontier

So Delling was someone who had fought so long in war and lost so much that he was desperate to try and curtail it in any way possible, even if that meant carrying out a Witch Hunt and destroying all Gundam.

People who think you can end all wars by killing a lot of people are delusional. Delling is not exception.

All he achieve is turning a witch into a demon, and now his kid is gonna have to deal with the fallout. I don't pity him. He deserves everything that's coming to him. I do pity his kid though.

[deadite]

Delling is turning out to be the best parent as I expected. Dominicus being Miorine personal fighting force seems to likely.

[Twi]

Recap and review done.

Honestly, Delling doing what he did for no-more war isn't really a surprise. Not when he gave that pitch about people killing people instead of Gundams and then became the head of the group. But it really doesn't justify his actions. Suletta's family were non-combatants, no different than Gund-Arm in its current iteration, and he targeted them to remove a piece off the board.

I can see why some people might want to see where he's coming from, but at the end of the day that's like arguing why Shaddiq and Nika both want the same thing but are going to different ends to get it. Peace and negotiations can only be held when both sides are equal, but getting there through bloody means creates a cycle of revenge and hatred.

I'd use Norea instead of Shaddiq, but she just wants dead Spacians.

And Guel cannot win. Even when he's not on the battlefield and just wants to save someone.

Originally Posted by frubam

Great. Sounds like another gut punch to Guel incoming.

He's a father figure and we got his backstory. We all know he isn't going to make it.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Key Board

He's more like the Rukino Saki (Valvrave) of Gwitch
but they're probably treating him better. Maybe

Shaddiq has McGillis energy

Char proxy is probably still Prospera. But she's shifting into Durandal a bit.

//

It really does feel like they've been splitting the difference with the Char Clones in this show, though now I feel like Guel parallels a lot of Char's character arc.

Rival character in red MS that keeps losing to Gundams, ends up having an emotional breakdown after losing a loved one (by his own hand no less), goes incognito under an assumed identity, ends up seeing how corrupt the government is and how people are suffering, plans to retake his birthright as a result...

Originally Posted by Marina2

Wait,...I seriously hope Earth house students aren't getting locked up and interrogate right now because they can't find Nika whereabouts.

I guess keeping them all out of the episode did heighten the suspense as to what is being done to them when they're all suspected of being part of the terrorist plot.

Anime making Suletta clueless about everything probably one of the best idea. Her character doesn't have to worry about politic, war, relationship and can do what she does the best (Pilot Gundam, beating up every enemy) with no worry. Other support characters will deal with those thing instead.

I do feel like her ignorance, especially in regards to her mother, is going to come back to bite her.

Originally Posted by azarhal

The best part thought: Prospera didn't lie when she said Quiet Zero was Nortrette's idea.

I just find it hilarious that Miorine's mom really was just a normal botanist who thought she could apply plant logic to armed conflict and her husband was like "I can get behind that" .

Originally Posted by kuroyanagi

Norea told Suletta last episode that Sophie dying was not her fault, but all of a sudden Nika, who basically sat out the events of last episode, is responsible? I had to rewatch the episode twice to confirm that no, I did not miss anything, this is just Norea lashing out at whoever is handy and can't fight back while conveniently ignoring the actual perpetrators standing behind her

I feel like Norea is as emotionally volatile as Sophie, she just hides it better, especially when it comes to Earthians or her family.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

People who think you can end all wars by killing a lot of people are delusional. Delling is not exception.

All he achieve is turning a witch into a demon, and now his kid is gonna have to deal with the fallout. I don't pity him. He deserves everything that's coming to him. I do pity his kid though.

I think Delling's problem is he thinks like a soldier, so as much as he wanted to end conflict, the only way he knew how to do it was with more violence and armed intervention, and it also left him unable to be a proper father to Miorine.

I don't think it justifies the atrocities he committed, but I do feel like I better understand him now.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I just find it hilarious that Miorine's mom really was just a normal botanist who thought she could apply plant logic to armed conflict and her husband was like "I can get behind that" .

Of course he can get behind that, tomato's defense mechanism leads their predator to cannibalism.

[serenade_beta]

Man, Guel getting caught by Earth all of a sudden and then getting flattened by debris but getting out by himself with relatively little damage all of a sudden
I think it would be nice if they actually depicted the events between start and end instead of the sad, sad death of cannon fodder introduced and killed in the same episode, but I guess this is just leading to a revelation that Guel can use time magic

[Laevatein]

Originally Posted by kuroyanagi

Norea told Suletta last episode that Sophie dying was not her fault, but all of a sudden Nika, who basically sat out the events of last episode, is responsible? I had to rewatch the episode twice to confirm that no, I did not miss anything, this is just Norea lashing out at whoever is handy and can't fight back while conveniently ignoring the actual perpetrators standing behind her.

She can't get to Suletta at the moment, and Nika happens to be around and makes a convenient target to take it out on.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Laevatein

She can't get to Suletta at the moment, and Nika happens to be around and makes a convenient target to take it out on.

No, I think she has something akin to kinship with Suletta. Not just her, but other Gundam Pilots in general who are likely to suffer from the curse, she'll give some deference in a way akin to acknowledging them similar to how Elan 4 reacted to Su when he first met her before he knew it was Aerial holding the curse back.

They're riding machines that are going to kill them. Even look at her interaction with Elan 5, where she was actually pressing him to raise his Permet score or else he wouldn't be able to survive. In contrast, she nearly shot Chuchu's cockpit first when she emerged while shouting at her for being sloppy for an Earthian when she missed her first shot.

Not to mention Suletta likely still has whatever they were looking for that was part of the reason they came to the school.

[Wandering Soul]

It's funny how Guel is going through such a traditional Gundam protagonist arc. He's at least got his resolve back and a new father figure to boot. I don't think Olcott will make it through to the end though. At least the series is done treating Guel as a punching bag for now and is instead giving that role to Nika.

[Dengar]

+ Guel is back I guess
+ No Suletta
+ An actual combat with stakes
+ I guess zero thingy project exposition can be counted as a +?
+ Chubby cool guy getting some screen time
+ The one bad guy who wasn't an idiot survived

- Giving the bad guys some kids just to make them look more sympathetic
- Making kids mourn the murderous sociopath to make her look more sympathetic
- Kids successfully taking over the school
- That mobile suit crashing right in front of Guel, which somehow has an operational cockpit despite the fact that its occupant got gibbed, mega convenient
- The bad guys are complete morons, their deaths were due to their own actions and nothing else
- Other psychotic girl getting to beat up Nika like she's in the right
- Nika getting herself beat up because of her own wishy washiness, girl needs to choose something to stand for, not necessarily pick a specific side, but just, represent anything, please

All in all, although I am a wee bit split, I think the episode is more good than bad.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Frontier

It really does feel like they've been splitting the difference with the Char Clones in this show, though now I feel like Guel parallels a lot of Char's character arc.

Rival character in red MS that keeps losing to Gundams, ends up having an emotional breakdown after losing a loved one (by his own hand no less), goes incognito under an assumed identity, ends up seeing how corrupt the government is and how people are suffering, plans to retake his birthright as a result...

The earthian mobile suit did remind me of a Rick Dias

Bob with sunglasses next?

I am 100% sure he won't drop a rock on the planet, though


//

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Dengar

+ Guel is back I guess
+ No Suletta
+ An actual combat with stakes
+ I guess zero thingy project exposition can be counted as a +?
+ Chubby cool guy getting some screen time
+ The one bad guy who wasn't an idiot survived

- Giving the bad guys some kids just to make them look more sympathetic
- Making kids mourn the murderous sociopath to make her look more sympathetic
- Kids successfully taking over the school
- That mobile suit crashing right in front of Guel, which somehow has an operational cockpit despite the fact that its occupant got gibbed, mega convenient
- The bad guys are complete morons, their deaths were due to their own actions and nothing else
- Other psychotic girl getting to beat up Nika like she's in the right
- Nika getting herself beat up because of her own wishy washiness, girl needs to choose something to stand for, not necessarily pick a specific side, but just, represent anything, please

All in all, although I am a wee bit split, I think the episode is more good than bad.

I think it's all a matter of perspective.

Like, yeah, the Dawn of Fold are terrorists but from their perspective they're only acting under the interests of Earth and even if some of what they do is carry out terrorist attacks on Spacians, they also seem to be the only ones who give a darn about all the displaced and struggling people on Earth.

And to some Sophie would come off as a psycho because she acted like it but to those kids she was probably a big sister figure to them, they don't really have a frame of reference for what she was like in an MS.

Like Chubby Cool Guy seems cool but we know he helped carry out Delling's slaughter and killed Eri's dad and almost seemed happy to do so, but to him it was just doing his job.

I feel like Shaddiq's intellect and experience level puts him well beyond the "kid" label at this point.

I don't think anyone is saying Norea was in the right for beating on Nika, but Nika also isn't a trained soldier and is basically a hostage, so what else could she do? She stood up for her point of view even while Norea was beating on her.

Just put that down in the long history of convenient situations for someone to pilot an MS .

Ultimately it all comes down to people being people in a way.

[justavisitor]

The combat in this episode is way better than those gunbit fights in my opinion.

So based on what I see from this show, things go on in this order??
1. Delling banned gundam, saying gundam "is not a proper war machine" (based on the prologue, or whatever the reason) because at that time he was going on with his original "Quiet Zero" plan (Oppress the Earth, and make each side gain enough profit to stop the war??)
2. Miorine's mom died
3. Suletta's mom somehow knows the plan of "Quiet Zero", convincing Delling that Gundam is needed to continue this plan
4. So Aerial is probably funded by Delling as well? Then all the argument about unbanning Gundam in S1 was just an act between Delling and Suletts's mom
5. Unknown to Delling, Prospera is twisting the "Quiet Zero" with Gundam's technology, possibly making the plan more inhumane

Something like that?