To Aru Kagaku no Railgun - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[BlueDo]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

And you're implying that somehow... Misaka, who is a middle schooler, merits enough combat experience to offset Kiyama's advantage?

Actually, yes.
Kiyama has a versatile lv.4 power, but is new at her power. Look how stale and she was at applying them. Sure, she was smart to combine them, but she is only able to harness them in their primary nature.
Misaka is an experienced lv 5. She is capable of thinking counters to abilities she sees. Her application of power includes sticking to walls, spidey-sense(manga-only), and railgun. Also, she isn't using her full power.

Granted, if Kiyama was serious, she might've killed Misaka.
But Misaka has more going for her than you expect.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Mikoto has been in various fights, although many of her battles have been one sided (Except for Touma, who completely negates her abilities) She is also the most powerful electro-master in the city (and third strongest Esper overall), and have proven she is quite talented in applying her powers. In most cases, she holds back the true strength of her abilities as well.

While Touma has fought a high level Espers (Misaki), Mages, a reality warping Alchemist, and an embodiment of forbidden magic (Index) before he faced Accelerator.

I would say both of them have quite a bit more combat experience then a scientist, even if she uses her abilities rather well.

[tsunade666]

touma's high school I think. Unlike accelerator who relies most on his ability touma's been in street fight since his a kid. Its part of his back story that hasn't been tackle. That's why his a delinquent and part of stupid trio.

As for mikoto she shouldn't have that many battle experience but based on the anime. She's been fighting or rather helping the judgment's work. And mostly the work of judgment is dealing with delinquent. Just like what kuroko's been dealing with. She's ended up mostly on fighting.

As for kiyama...... yap she has no battle skills or combat and she's not even an ability user. Her abilities are borrowed from the network. Even though she's a scientist that's been working on developing it.

And kiyama hasn't really met the number 1 and 2 yet. So his practically looking down on level 5 if she think that that's all misaka can do. When she look back.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Mikoto has been in various fights, although many of her battles have been one sided (Except for Touma, who completely negates her abilities) She is also the most powerful electro-master in the city (and third strongest Esper overall), and have proven she is quite talented in applying her powers. In most cases, she holds back the true strength of her abilities as well.

While Touma has fought a high level Espers (Misaki), Mages, a reality warping Alchemist, and an embodiment of forbidden magic (Index) before he faced Accelerator.

I would say both of them have quite a bit more combat experience then a scientist, even if she uses her abilities rather well.

And that's the thing. All of Misaka's fights were one-sided. Same as Accelerator. All of his fights were one-sided. Accelerator was already at his 9000th battle on their little experiment yet he lost pathetically in a fist fight. Misaka and Accelerator's battles so far hardly merits them any actual combat experience.

As for Touma... hahaha honestly he won all of his fights cause of plot <_<

[Fenrir_valindri]

Experience with actual battle with their abilities means quite a bit.

Just because your abilities are powerful doesn't mean you can win any fight without effort. Misaki wasn't always a level 5, and Accelerator has quite the bloody past himself, even before the Sisters experiment due to his status as the strongest Esper.

While Accelerator suffered for his ability being so overpowering versus Touma, Mikoto's ability isn't anywhere near as overpowering, thus the reason she is so creative with it.

[MartianMage]

And where's the proof that she became lvl5 through combat? If you ask me Misaka's ability is also one of the more powerful ones. Sure, not as broken as Accelerator but enough to make her previous battles look like child's play as shown in the anime.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not undermining Misaka here but I just find it unbelievable that Kiyama lost due to combat experience. Touma, Misaka, and Accelerator has very little of it. Kiyama lost because of plot. In the end Misaka simply feigned defeat and hoped for Kiyama being careless.

[tsunade666]

she become level 5 through her hard work on leveling it. But that concerns the daily training of the academy. Like what's been shown on the anime. Its just all that. Daily. But the academy's curriculum doesn't have actual combat. Well except for some specials. But biribiri isn't one of those specials.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Training can be a very direct attribute to the utilization of her abilities, and the number of fights/judgment affairs she gets involved in is quite high, which gives her plenty of chances to utilize them.

I don't think she came up with half the abilities we have seen her use purely from nothing. The Railgun and especially her black-sand attacks are very directly combat related.

She has also proven to be quite the intelligent fighter against Touma (the first guy she has fought who can take anything she can throw); experimenting to see what he could stop, and distracting him to get close enough to directly electrocute him, she is far better in combat then any middle schooler has a right to tbh.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Training can be a very direct attribute to the utilization of her abilities, and the number of fights/judgment affairs she gets involved in is quite high, which gives her plenty of chances to utilize them.

I don't think she came up with half the abilities we have seen her use purely from nothing. The Railgun and especially her black-sand attacks are very directly combat related.

She has also proven to be quite the intelligent fighter against Touma (the first guy she has fought who can take anything she can throw); experimenting to see what he could stop, and distracting him to get close enough to directly electrocute him, she is far better in combat then any middle schooler has a right to tbh.

All of that is merely speculation. Sure what you're saying might be possible but as far as what the anime has shown us Misaka should have very little combat experience thus saying that Kiyama lost to Misaka because of lack of combat experience is just meh. Take note that Kiyama also displayed enough capability on her own right to beat a whole team of anti-skills on her first try using her network.

[Fenrir_valindri]

And then met with an equal or greater force she was outwitted and defeated, and Misaki was even holding back on her powers (though Kiyama likely was as well).

Defeating a bunch of non-powered opponents is far less impressive then Mikoto defeating powered opponents, even if they were weaker then herself.

Not to mention she just beat Kiyama as well.

[tsunade666]

Kiyama's been in the development of esper longer than misaka being brought up be academy city to learn about her own ability. So even its her first try or rather I think its not her first try because she knows what's the result of it and she's even showing it to uihara. So I think she did some test with its abilities. And comparing combat experience between two people who can't be considered their previews fights a battle experience is really bad. Because those two haven't been really receive some damage. Its like accelerator who's considered strongest but has been proven be the weakest.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

And then met with an equal or greater force she was outwitted and defeated, and Misaki was even holding back on her powers (though Kiyama likely was as well).

Defeating a bunch of non-powered opponents is far less impressive then Mikoto defeating powered opponents, even if they were weaker then herself.

Not to mention she just beat Kiyama as well.

Sure she lost but that's not the point. The point that I'm arguing is that Kiyama lost due to plot and not combat experience. Feigning defeat and hoping that opponent doesn't double check isn't exactly winning due to more combat experience. With Kiyama's intelligence it's hardly believable at all that she'd be stupid enough not to check.

[Fenrir_valindri]

So Touma's combat experience counts for nothing against ability users because he has the ability to negate them?

Combat experience doesn't necessarily mean you had to have a difficult or pitched battle, it just means you have to have been involved in combat and come out of it with a greater understanding, thus the entire reason for Accelerator's involvement with the Sisters project, it was to force his evolution into a level 6 through combat, it doesn't matter that a vast majority of his fights were COMPLETELY one sided.

An inexperienced person isn't going to make sure a downed opponent is finished, or even expect a feint at all, Kiyama clearly didn't expect Misaki to be able to defend against her final attack, and she was proven wrong.

Being a weapons developer and actually being an expert with the use of that weapon aren't necessarily the same thing. Kiyama isn't an ability user at all outside of the Level-Upper, so her experience with USING abilities would be on the level of Saten after using the Level-Upper, Kiyama just happens to be quite a bit more intelligent and has an entire network of powers backing her.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

So Touma's combat experience counts for nothing against ability users because he has the ability to negate them?

Combat experience doesn't necessarily mean you had to have a difficult or pitched battle, it just means you have to have been involved in combat and come out of it with a greater understanding, thus the entire reason for Accelerator's involvement with the Sisters project, it was to force his evolution into a level 6 through combat, it doesn't matter that a vast majority of his fights were COMPLETELY one sided.

An inexperienced person isn't going to make sure a downed opponent is finished, or even expect a feint at all, Kiyama clearly didn't expect Misaki to be able to defend against her final attack, and she was proven wrong.

Being a weapons developer and actually being an expert with the use of that weapon aren't necessarily the same thing. Kiyama isn't an ability user at all outside of the Level-Upper, so her experience with USING abilities would be on the level of Saten after using the Level-Upper, Kiyama just happens to be quite a bit more intelligent and has an entire network of powers backing her.

You're telling me that a guy who simply runs towards his opponents in a straight line then punching them in the face is a sign of someone with combat experience? In case you haven't noticed that's what Touma did on all his fights(bored me to hell too). Hell he even blocked a punch from Ellis's golem. If it wasn't for the plot and the stupid science that applied during that episode he'd be crushed.

And sorry I just don't buy it that only people with "combat experience" has enough intelligence to double check on a downed opponent. =/

[BlueDo]

I don't see how you don't think that Touma, Misaka and Accelerator don't have battle experience.
It doesn't matter that the people they fought are weaker, it still counts for something.

As for Touma, it's said that he got involved in many streetfights while skipping school and such.

[Marcus H.]

Kuroi Sabato, here are a few things I've noticed.

> Accelerator's fights were one-sided only because his fights weren't really natural from the start. It's a staged process of acquiring "experience" from defeating 20000 Level 3 versions of Misaka whose steps are hardwired into the brains of the Sisters. Everything the Sisters do in combat is carefully calculated and Tree Diagram knows that Accelerator will always win. Kamijou Touma was not a variable.

> Misaka's battles are a different thing. She's smart and has great analytic ability.

> Experience, not combat experience, is the reason why Accelerator, Mikoto and Touma win most of the time. Well, as for Touma, there's a big dose of luck involved, but Accelerator uses Redirection 24 hours a day and Mikoto was first portrayed to have Level 1 powers as a 7 year old or younger.

> Kiyama was just using her brain when she smoked the Anti-skill.

> The fight in episode 11 wasn't really full-force abilities pitted against each other. Mikoto was holding back, as always, and Kiyama still a n00b with the long skill list she has. And Kiyama wouldn't kill a student as she knew it would only put her on the same level as the Mad Scientist in her flashback.

> Touma's combat style is gung-ho, 'nuff said. Though he has enough bragging rights to flaunt his ability anytime.

> Lesson here? Don't think plot has anything to do with something. Everything will be less boring that way.

[MrTerrorist]

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

yet there was only one level 4 graviton on record in ALL of academic city and she successfully copied it. rarity and number of users is irrelevant.

Actually, Kiyama actually used that Level 4 Graviton user ability since that person was also part of the Network. Kuroko mention when they were investigating who was responsible for the Gravtion bombings that first suspected it was a girl who was a Level 4 Graviton user but found it wasn't her as she was in a coma during the bombings. But of course we all know who used her abilities instead.

[BlueDo]

I don't think Level Upper allows you to steal abilities.
It just increases your processing power, leeched from the comatose people.
Wasn't that Dummy Check girl the only one with her ability?

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by BlueDo

I don't see how you don't think that Touma, Misaka and Accelerator don't have battle experience.
It doesn't matter that the people they fought are weaker, it still counts for something.

As for Touma, it's said that he got involved in many streetfights while skipping school and such.

It counts as nothing really. Accelerator killed 9000 Misakas and he lost to Touma who's just another brat at best and you're saying that Accelerator's battles counts as combat experience?

One thing to note here is that they do not level their abilities through combat training. Misaka reached level 5 though academy city's curriculum. One thing for sure is that, whatever they're trying to stimulate for Accelerator to reach level 6, it is not combat experience.

@Marcus H.

When the other side can simply win by teleporting a slab of brick into your body(kinda how Kuroko teleports the glasses into the building's support to instantly cut it) but doesn't do it anyway it's hard to believe that the other side lost because of "lack of experience." Kiyama can kill someone in god knows how many ways but she doesn't do it. Why? plot.

[tsunade666]

Level upper can't steal other abilities and the one kiyama used is probably the 4 eyes freaked that biribiri beat up. The girl in comma doesn't even have any report on using level upper so its safe to assume that she's not in use of level upper because mostly users of it are recorded lower level. As for that girl its been recorded that she's a level 4 user.

And the one who can only use multiple skill or dual skill is the server. The people in the network only power up the same kind of powers by linking each other.

As for accelerator his battle experience aren't only limited to those misaka because its clearly seen that his always in the center of attack by those thugs.

And also don't runt on the plot of the story to show that the character to win. Its just show that you hate the character. And a one sided conversation about a person that wouldn't even agree to begin with.

And most of the opponents of touma are stronger than him and has ability. And its not all the time that he attacks straight forward its just pinch time. Like hell will you think twice if your dying. Its kinda crazy to think when your getting squashed already. And if you compare it to battle agains ellis where kazakiri is getting squashed then how about when his getting buried in the underground railway. Even in dire situation at least he remembers what index said.

As for mikoto. I just really can't say that she level up from beating weaklings. The story say she worked hard then fine she worked hard but their is no explanation on what she did to attain it. And she's been level 1 to begin with. Their is much more worst than her that reach level 5. And that one is more like a thug than mikoto a ojou sama. But mikoto is smart for her own good. She has battle tactics and she's using the surrounding for her own advantage.