Konohas strongest Jounin??

[tkdtiger]

Well I would think Gai would train his speed to be faster than Kakashi to a point where Kakashi's sharingan would have trouble keeping up. I don't think Gai is as dumb as people think. It seems like that

Spoiler:

especially when he forgets Kisame's name, but than I think he was concetrating on Itachi more

The think is we now know 2 things

Spoiler:

Gai can open 6 gates and Kakashi has MS so obviously their skills are much closer now. At the same token neither Kakashi or Gai are in their prime anymore...indeed Gai has mentioned atleast once that he's not as good as he use to be so they're probably equals by now...although Gai was probably stronger pretimeskip

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

Well I would think Gai would train his speed to be faster than Kakashi to a point where Kakashi's sharingan would have trouble keeping up. I don't think Gai is as dumb as people think. It seems like that

Spoiler:

especially when he forgets Kisame's name, but than I think he was concetrating on Itachi more

The think is we now know 2 things

Spoiler:

Gai can open 6 gates and Kakashi has MS so obviously their skills are much closer now. At the same token neither Kakashi or Gai are in their prime anymore...indeed Gai has mentioned atleast once that he's not as good as he use to be so they're probably equals by now...although Gai was probably stronger pretimeskip

Personally, I'd favor Gai over Kakashi...

Spoiler for because...:

...because Kakashi isn't a natural Sharingan user, thus using the MS puts an enormous strain on both his body and chakra reserves. I mean, MS already is tough on its user, but for Kakashi it's worse. In a prolonged fight, I actually think that Gai's taijutsu (which because it doesn't use handsigns, a sharingan user would already have a tougher time predicting movements) would win overall. Kakashi is undoubtedly strong, but he just doesn't have the endurance. Then, additionally, Gai can open up to the six gates --- I doubt that Kakashi, despite his sharingan's ability to predict movement, would be able to keep up with Gai at those speeds (physically--- maybe he could track him with his eyes, but I really wonder if he could sustain any high speed like Gai or even Lee can).

[reloaded]

Originally Posted by Yellowflash221

Are you forgetting that Kakashi is called the copy ninja for knowing over a thousand jutsus? We have barely seen any of those one thousand jutsus. For all we know he could have copied the most powerful jutsu but that would be speculating just like you saying we haven't seen all of Gai's tricks. Until we see more from Gai and Kakashi there's no point in assuming what they can do that we haven't seen.

We can't assume he can go higher than 6 gates but we also can't assume he can't go above 6 gates. Assuming things doesn't make them right. Unless we are told Gai can go higher than 6 gates or he can't we don't know so stop speculating.

Yes he has over a thousand jutsus but if all/many of them were powerful then why is Kakashi at the current level hes at, you can speculate and say "he could have copied the most powerful jutsu" but if he had his status doesnt reflect it. Were not going to see even another 30 jutsus from Kakashi let alone 1000+ so weve seen most of his tricks that were ever gonna see. I didnt say assuming things makes them right but would there be any fun if no one came up with ideas or theories. If we just limited ourselves to the solid facts then there wouldnt be much to debate. Yes speculation can go a bit too far sometimes but it isnt a long shot to say Gai can open eight gates if he wished.

Sarutobi vs Oro wasnt a one on one at all. Edo Tensei is a technique but at the end of the day it brought back two people from the dead, two hokages (one having a blood line trait) and a sannin vs Sarutobi and Enma...this is a 3 on 2 and Oros side clearly has the upperhand so it definitly wasnt a fair fight let alone a one on one.

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

Only regardless to you, trading your life to take out your enemy isn't a win.

You beat the enemy and then you die shortly after. A win in naruto is when you beat your opponent till they can no longer continue to fight, what happens after doesnt alter the fact that you won if you had accomplished that.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by billbrown

It was implied several times that Sarutobi was holding back during the fight and was severely handicapped having to fight against two Hokages, both of which featured no lack of skill, power or full range of their abilities.

Quite easily, Sarutobi>>>Orochimaru. What happened was Sarutobi<Oro+Two Hokages. It took that much to barely beat Sarutobi and he damn near took Oro with him anyway. The fight was hardly ever a 1v1 matchup, it was stacked against Sarutobi the moment the edo tensei came into play.

As for jounins, Kakashi is probably the strongest due to his overall prowess+sharingan.

It was more like Orochimaru + Two fake doppelgangers vs. Sarutobi + Enma (who isn't fake). He knew he couldn't win so what did he do? He went Kage-Bunshin and used the Fuin Jutsu. He wouldn't outlast his younger student and take out 2 corpses too while being trapped inside a barrier. Handicapped? No. The odds slightly against him? Perhaps.

Originally Posted by reloaded

You beat the enemy and then you die shortly after. A win in naruto is when you beat your opponent till they can no longer continue to fight, what happens after doesnt alter the fact that you won if you had accomplished that.

A win by your definition? Lets be objective, DEFEATING an opponant at the cost of your life isn't victory. It just means you accomplished your mission.

[reloaded]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

A win by your definition? Lets be objective, DEFEATING an opponant at the cost of your life isn't victory. It just means you accomplished your mission.

win - to gain victory or triumph in battle.
victory - a success attained in contest or struggle over an opponent.

If you die shortly after youve gained ^victory then it doesnt change the fact that you won regardless.

Im not really here to discuss this by the way and im sure its the same for you if you have your own opinion on your definitions thats fine.

[That Other Ninja]

Semantics. Ambiguity in words like that leads to the bias people choose to hold on to. But if you want to believe a suicide attack = a win then that's your thing.

[Nice Gai]

I am pretty sure that Gai,Kakashi and Yamato are the strongest jounins in konoha,if we keep out the sannins that is.(gai is probably the strongest ,because of his turtle and tsunade;kakashi's MS is, i think ,probably the most awesome jutsu post time skip) )

As for neji, i think i think sai is much stronger than neji.Seriously,neji is one of the very overrated characters in the series.i haven't seen neji do anything that's even capable enough of beating even chouji at full strength(i think shikamaru said that chouji is stronger than neji).

Just because neji belongs to the second or third most outstanding clan in konoha ,(since in episode 16-kakashi says that uchihas are the most outstanding) means nothing.it all depends on the ninja.Bloodlines are merely a tool that makes it easier for you to be stronger ,but in the end it all depends on the ninja's own calibur.

hiyashi is probably much stronger though.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Nice Gai

I am pretty sure that Gai,Kakashi and Yamato are the strongest jounins in konoha,if we keep out the sannins that is.(gai is probably the strongest ,because of his turtle and tsunade;kakashi's MS is, i think ,probably the most awesome jutsu post time skip) )

As for neji, i think i think sai is much stronger than neji.Seriously,neji is one of the very overrated characters in the series.i haven't seen neji do anything that's even capable enough of beating even chouji at full strength(i think shikamaru said that chouji is stronger than neji).

Just because neji belongs to the second or third most outstanding clan in konoha ,(since in episode 16-kakashi says that uchihas are the most outstanding) means nothing.it all depends on the ninja.Bloodlines are merely a tool that makes it easier for you to be stronger ,but in the end it all depends on the ninja's own calibur.

hiyashi is probably much stronger though.

Any reference to Chouji's strength is just a measure of his physical strength. So yes, he is stronger than Neji in brute force, just like Kiba would be stronger than Naruto with his cyclone spinning.

[Nice Gai]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

Any reference to Chouji's strength is just a measure of his physical strength. So yes, he is stronger than Neji in brute force, just like Kiba would be stronger than Naruto with his cyclone spinning.

umm... i don't think shikamaru said purely interms of brute strength.he meant that as a shinobi he was stronger.

But then again,don't know how things are post time skip.

[Rahan]

He meant the one with the most destructive attack. He wasn't aware of Naruto's rasengan (which would not have worked anyways) and if Neji's moves are highly efficient because they target the shinobi's pressure points, they are totally useless against a friggin wall ! (thus the lower destructive rate than Chouji's attacks)

[Nice Gai]

Originally Posted by Rahan

He meant the one with the most destructive attack. He wasn't aware of Naruto's rasengan (which would not have worked anyways) and if Neji's moves are highly efficient because they target the shinobi's pressure points, they are totally useless against a friggin wall ! (thus the lower destructive rate than Chouji's attacks)

But neji's hands won't reach chouji's pressure point(pre-time skip)
I am pretty sure,he meant as a shinobi.

[Rahan]

Actually, I don't remember Shikamaru comparing directly Neji and Chouji. I thought you were talking about Shikamaru judgement about Chouji ("the one with the most power", he avoided the word strongest AFAIR) when he thought of a plan to destroy Jirobo's prison

[That Other Ninja]

He did not mean as a shinobi.

Spoiler:

Pre-timeskip, Neji killed a CS lvl 2 sound nin with one jyuuken attack to the vital organs with a simple injection of his chakra. You wanna talk about destructive power? Chouji can turn into a giant meatball and smash things, that's great. Neji can kill you with a flat palm to your chest. Chouji a greater shinobi pre-timeskip? Not by a long shot.

[tkdtiger]

I agree Chouji is not near Neji's level.

Spoiler:

If Chouji was than he would be the jounin instead of Neji. I think Sai is good, but proabably isn't stronger than Neji. I place Neji in terms of the former Konoha genins right behind Sasuke and Naruto

[Master zoid pilot]

This should be a poll

Even though I have my top few I think all our choices are some what skewed because we don't see a lot of the Jounin fight besides Kakashi and Gai(we've seen some of the others but very little). Hell I wonder how much Techniques Shika's father know, How much Hinata's dad(forgot his name ) know, he knew that move Neji used during the Chunin exams and I believe Neji thought he created a new move.

[Hentai Guy]

Originally Posted by Master zoid pilot

How much Hinata's dad(forgot his name ) know, he knew that move Neji used during the Chunin exams and I believe Neji thought he created a new move.

You know...I did completely forget about Hiashi...he should, at the least, get an honorable mention.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Hentai Guy

You know...I did completely forget about Hiashi...he should, at the least, get an honorable mention.

Yeah... during the Chuunin exams, he took out a whole group of sound and/or sand shinobi all by himself (using the rotation technique). He is very strong, but I think Neji is stronger than he is, or at least has the potential to be so. I don't know about much post time skip, so I'm at a loss to describe some shinobi's abilities.

[Nice Gai]

Pre-timeskip, Neji killed a CS lvl 2 sound nin with one jyuuken attack to the vital organs with a simple injection of his chakra. You wanna talk about destructive power?

only because he carelessly kept the chakra string in his mouth for too long.
But equally,if not more impressively,chouji killed a CS lvl 2 ninja with one punch.how about that?Just one simple punch.

Seriously neji's hands won't even reach most of chouji's tenkus.i don't remember neji having any special power that's cabable of beating chouji pre time ship.
Chouji's father scared a mini-army of sound ninjas purely with his size.

the thing is,neji is a pretty high class ninja no doubt,but he is not all that superior to guys like shikamaru,chouji,shino,sakura etc.They are all highly able ninjas.It's the fans that have made neji so much bigger.In reality, the difference is very little..

And you asked me why is chouji not jounin?
isn't it obvious?the same reason shikamaru is not a jounin yet but temari is.
chouji,shikamaru are rather irresponsible.Aren't jounins supposed to be the more responsible guys?

In anycase,i was talking about pretime skip.

In the same manner,while hiyashi is worth a mention,so is chouji's father ,shikamaru's father,kiba's father etc.

And in my opinion,sai is stronger than neji.He is most likely one of the strongest jounins in konoha.But we have yet to verify it.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Nice Gai

only because he carelessly kept the chakra string in his mouth for too long.
But equally,if not more impressively,chouji killed a CS lvl 2 ninja with one punch.how about that?Just one simple punch.

Seriously neji's hands won't even reach most of chouji's tenkus.i don't remember neji having any special power that's cabable of beating chouji pre time ship.
Chouji's father scared a mini-army of sound ninjas purely with his size.

the thing is,neji is a pretty high class ninja no doubt,but he is not all that superior to guys like shikamaru,chouji,shino,sakura etc.They are all highly able ninjas.It's the fans that have made neji so much bigger.In reality, the difference is very little..

And you asked me why is chouji not jounin?
isn't it obvious?the same reason shikamaru is not a jounin yet but temari is.
chouji,shikamaru are rather irresponsible.Aren't jounins supposed to be the more responsible guys?

In anycase,i was talking about pretime skip.

In the same manner,while hiyashi is worth a mention,so is chouji's father ,shikamaru's father,kiba's father etc.

And in my opinion,sai is stronger than neji.He is most likely one of the strongest jounins in konoha.But we have yet to verify it.

The thing is the Hyuuga's taijutsu art attacks internally not externally...This means Neji should not have any problems attacking Chouji's tenketsu points. I'm a fan of Shikamaru, but I definatly do not see Shikamaru defeating Neji one on one. I think he could do it with a group, but definately not one on one. Pre-time skip they compared Neji's ultimate defense as being as strong or possibly stronger than Gaara's ultimate defense. Not only that he didn't defeat the guy with a single punch. As I recall he attempted many attacks that failed and had to use all three of his pills in order to win. I'm not saying that Chouji's weak, but Neji is definately higher than him. I mean even Lee said he couldn't defeat Neji and this is him with the knowledge that he can remove his leg weights and open gates....I still don't think Sai is stronger. It just seems that Kishimoto IMO chose the characters he wanted to be strongest...Sasuke, Naruto, and Neji...

[Nice Gai]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

The thing is the Hyuuga's taijutsu art attacks internally not externally...This means Neji should not have any problems attacking Chouji's tenketsu points. I'm a fan of Shikamaru, but I definatly do not see Shikamaru defeating Neji one on one. I think he could do it with a group, but definately not one on one. Pre-time skip they compared Neji's ultimate defense as being as strong or possibly stronger than Gaara's ultimate defense. Not only that he didn't defeat the guy with a single punch. As I recall he attempted many attacks that failed and had to use all three of his pills in order to win. I'm not saying that Chouji's weak, but Neji is definately higher than him. I mean even Lee said he couldn't defeat Neji and this is him with the knowledge that he can remove his leg weights and open gates....I still don't think Sai is stronger. It just seems that Kishimoto IMO chose the characters he wanted to be strongest...Sasuke, Naruto, and Neji...

sauke-understandable
naruto-understandable
but how and why neji?
he has never shown abilities that are even CLOSE to post time skip sasuke or naruto.He is MILES behind these two.

Spoiler:

He was practically useless against kisame.just one new special attack ,if i remember.
on top of that he is mostly close range and taijutsu type.he lacks variety.
the only person that he defeated convincingly was hinata-and sasuke defeated orochimaru in an even easier fashion.

lee never fought neji after opening gates.neji will pretty much get pawned if he did.shikamaru defeated hidan by himdelf.yes,he got the time to prepare,but still!People often seriously underestimate the power of shika's planning.

And sai went straight to orochimaru to kill sasuke!All by himself!what do you expect?