Archer - discuss Ep. 14 hints

[mlai]

I would disagree; Rin cares a lot. She's mildly abrasive towards Shirou but for her standards that's considered to be extreme caring - she wouldn't give the time of day to someone she doesn't care about.

Thru-out the anime you can see they work well together and she enjoys being with him. But that's all she allows herself because her sister's happiness is always on her mind.

[Bahumat]

Originally Posted by lftwgr

3. This explains a lot about his behavior with Rin when he is her servant. Of all the master/servant pairings, these two seem to hit it off right from the start. I wonder if the Fate Shirou would follow Archer's romantic path now that he has fallen for (and lost) Saber. I know: I'm a hopeless romantic who is just looking for any excuse for a happy ending, so don't rub it in.

4. He is an idiot. But not as jaded / world-weary as Archer. Too bad Archer didn't regain his memories during his conversations (pre-Berserker) with Shirou. I would've preferred if he shared his thoughts on what were his past mistakes (in a enigmatic and cryptic manner of course) with his younger self.

5. I thought the way Archer got injured was weird - he slices Heracles with the reinforced versions of Kansho and Bakuya and suddenly there is a blast that injures only his left arm? I don't even see anything that indicates an injury (blood, torn clothing, etc.)

I guess Rin would be Shirou's anchor in reality to tame his 'hero of justice' ideology in the future? I thought Rin cracked a little in trying to save Sakura from Caster though.

Spoiler for Off-topic: Summoning Process:

It is implied that the summoning process requires a significant object to focus on (e.g. Excalibur's scabbard for Saber, or the Tosaka jewel in Archer's case). However, during the meeting at the Emiya residence after Shirou's first encounter with Shinji as a master, Rin seems to be saying that which servant is summoned depends on the characteristics of the master. So is she confused? What happens if someone like Shinji were to use the Scabbard and try to summon Arthuria?

In response to the spoiler, characteristics do affect it somewhat.

Spoiler:

As a rule, the servant fits the master. Easily seen with the shirou/saber, rin/archer, ilya/berserker. However, a catalyst appears to only assist in summoning specific Heroic Souls: look at gilga-sama. His catalyst was the oldest fossilised snake skin.
So, even if the catalyst was used, the master can't be the polar opposite of the servant in nature for it to work. Gilga is similiar to his master, so it worked.

And shinji's a loser, he stole rider anyhow.......

[spy6060]

Originally Posted by mlai

3. In Archer's own timeline, he became close with Rin rather than Saber. It is hinted that he failed to save Rin from death when they were both older.

It was Ilya who got close to Shiro in Archer's timeline, and he failed to save Ilya when they got older.

So my guess is the Archer is from Ilya route of F/SN game( a route which was oringinally planned, but deleted by TM due to some issues). Rin and Archer probably died pretty early on in order for that to happen.

[mlai]

I think Ilya got close to Shirou in all the timelines. Shirou treasures his stepsister. She also dies of natural causes in all the timelines; it's not a variable for Shirou's varying futures.

[X_Danny_X]

can someone explain to me that bridge fight where Saber killed Archer?

how did that happen? i never seen it or mentioned much about it when reading about scenarios. I heard the word "loop" when it is mentioned.

[HurricaneHige]

Archer is most likely from Fate route if its from any of the scenarios, which i doubt

altho i love Saber, by going the Fate route anime-only peeps miss out of the majority of the story and hence y FSN is rated mediocre in so many cases. If one was to read through the 3 scenarios u would instantly fall in love with FSN...

[mlai]

Bridge fight is a scene in Fate Hollow Ataraxia. Archer was like a mid-boss "Shirou" has to smash thru in order to advance to another game area.

Archer was a fatalist, saying that even though he had no reason to kill Shirou at that point, he'll do it anyways.

Shirou brought Saber along to defeat Archer... Read the translated scene; it's quite exciting.

It was hinted that Saber knew exactly who Archer really was. But she's quite the little realist; she killed Archer without hesitation, for her Shirou.

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by mlai

Bridge fight is a scene in Fate Hollow Ataraxia. Archer was like a mid-boss "Shirou" has to smash thru in order to advance to another game area.

Archer was a fatalist, saying that even though he had no reason to kill Shirou at that point, he'll do it anyways.

Shirou brought Saber along to defeat Archer... Read the translated scene; it's quite exciting.

It was hinted that Saber knew exactly who Archer really was. But she's quite the little realist; she killed Archer without hesitation, for her Shirou.

where is this translation?

[Ibuki]

One thing I gotta say about Archer. He's got some real FOB engrish...

[Shana-tan]

One question...

Archer loved Saber, Rin or Sakura? Illya? Anyone know?

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Shana-tan

One question...

Archer loved Saber, Rin or Sakura? Illya? Anyone know?

Spoiler:

Archer didn't get close to Saber. Rin was (apparently) very close to him, as it was hinted in his timeline, she was one of his comrades fighting for his beliefs before she died. Ilya was very special to him, and he was greatly saddened when she died a year after the 5th Grail War ended.

[Shana-tan]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Spoiler:

Archer didn't get close to Saber. Rin was (apparently) very close to him, as it was hinted in his timeline, she was one of his comrades fighting for his beliefs before she died. Ilya was very special to him, and he was greatly saddened when she died a year after the 5th Grail War ended.

Spoiler for About Shirou/Archer - Heaven's Feel Bad Ending...:

I read in wikipedia that his némesis was Rin Tohsaka, Sakura Matou and Illya... with that, the only thing I can think is about Shirou in Heaven's Feel Bad Ending, where he loved and killed Sakura, later Rin and later Illya... that would fit with his nemesis... I think

[carmolita]

******spoiler******

I think the game went down a different path then the anime if it didn't it wouldn't be interesting or be able to continue not uncommon mangas do the same..
1. I think archer is from the past per conversation he had w/ rin after summoning.
2. I think all the servents remember there previous grail wars but the same servents don't participate in every war because they are. Summond with the characteristics of their master rin says this and saber reinterates this to shiro in eps 16 and says it was destined that she was summond by him because he mirrors herself.
3. Archer was in the last war I think he fought for illya family (her grandfather) although its not uncommon he knows illya name its been said so many times but he knows of the shack for a hideing place.
4 saber knows who archer is and I think archer was her servent in the past because he says she shouldn't have to fight in this war and saber try to command him and he says I am your enemy now. And archer knows a lot about saber and her intentions.
5. Archer knows what shiro is capable of he's been watching him and his magic forever afterall there is a reason why his father only taught him reinforcement spells...
6. And who is to say this isn't a. Part of a 2nd chance war from a previous war..it is the 5th one afterall
7. Archer has that eye power to see everything he probably saw what shiro was doing and his abducton or it can support the game theory

[Naruto_spartan]

It looks like we need to clarify a lot of things about Archer.

1) From what we know, he did not participate in the 4th war, I do not know about the others although he does posses a great deal of knowledge about the war, so either heroes are somehow informed of this before they are summoned or because he fought in other Grail Wars.

2) He cares deaply for Ilya because she is, and Shirou does not know this but Ilya might know, Shirou's step sister. In one of the scenarious it is said that Shirou's step father' genes were used to make Ilya.

3) How do we really know that Archer lost his memories? HE might have lost them but regained them soon enough and lied about the rest or he could have been lying from the start. From the anime and game and manga, from the anime especually, it is clear that Archer knows a lot more about Shirou's intentions and desires then anyone else, even his closest friends don't know that much about SHirou and Archer spent only a couple of hours with him, so he clearly knows about his relationship with Shirou.

4) He could have killed off Saber easily and every scenario, his UBW (Unlimited Blade Works) is very powerful, which means that he still loves her, also he could not bring himself to hurt Sakura and Ilya, he only hated himself, Shirou. Probably because in the future he faught in the war and Sakura, Rin and maybe Ilya were some of his comerads who died and he could not save them as Shirou.

5) Archer is clearly Shirou, in the 14th episode he seams to regain his Shirou determination, seeing as he could have run away but he sacrificed himself, like Shirou, to give Saber a fighting chance and to slow down Berserker as long as possible. He didn't run away because he couldn't.

6) Archer knows about Shirou's destiny and all their incounters, he has only made Shirou more stronger, not only in power but also in spirit. Everything that Archer said to Shirou came from experience and wisdome, something that SHirou could not learn by himself. SO Archer contributed to Shirou's grouth as a hero, even though he didn't want to at first.

7) In the future, Archer, or should I say Shirou, becomes a great warrior of the war and a well known hero. He makes a pact with Fate when he finds that he couldn't save a few hundred people and in return he would serve fate as an epic hero. His wish is granted, but then one of the people he saved, used SHirou as a political escape goat and Shirou was charged with high treason, even though everyone knew that was not the case. Shirou, with the realisation that he can't save everyone and that few must be sacrificed for the salvation of many, accepted his death.

8) He clerly has some sort of relationship with Rin, because he is very charming to her and calls her and exceptional magus, wich could mean that they are comerads in the future, like partners.

9) The fact that Rin could summon Archer with the same pendant she used to restore SHirou's life is clearly a sigh that Archer is Shirou and that he, in the future is much more analitical and realistic like Rin, but it could also mean that there was no one else Rin could summon, seing as the pendant became like a heart for SHirou.

10) He uses the same magic that Shirou is proficiant with, and this a great rarity indeed. Although I don't know why he doesn't trace Excalibur or Avalon anymore. Maybe it's like a sign of respect for Saber, because he doesn't want to tarnish her name or he just wants to depend on his own power and to become as great as Saber without her power.

11) Since Avalon might still be in Shirou, it could also be in Archer seeing as all the wounds he got from his fights were enough to kill any servant, and his healing powers were pretty great as well.

12) Archer only acts as a antagonist in UBW scenario, because he really doesn't want Shirou to suffer betrayal and guilt like he did. Althoug by the end he accepts his destiny and the life he chose. THis statement can also be said about The fate scenario seing as he accepted his life as Shirou and used what time he had left to help Shirou defeat his enemies.

[Angrypokstick]

I m not exactly sure where i read this theory about archer, and if it was mention before forgive me. it was a while back that i saw this.
Someone speculated that in shirou's time line after "fate" route that shirou/archer did indeed became close with Rin and Illya but the one he ended up with is Karen from Fate/Hollow Ataraxia. The reason being that :
1) During Fate/Hollow Atraxia and its time loops, the only characters that turned out to be fake was Shirou/avenger and karen. Since all the important character in the time loop was created from shirou/archer's memory and that Karen was the only one that shirou have not meet prior to the time loop(the only new major character introduced that did not take part in the 5th holy grail war), for her to appear in the time loop would suggest that she was created from archer's memory and held significant importance to archer. Not to mention that Shirou/avenger acted "interestingly" whenever he is around Karen.
(Note: the part above will seem confusing for those who have not played and understood FHA.)
2) the red trench coat archer wore is made from the same Holy cloth that Karen uses as a weapon in FHA. The cloth seals ones power. Shirou realized that Archer wear the red trench coat to prevent UBW from Backfiring on him as shirou had to do the same amount of tracing during Heaven's feel and ended up creating sword within his own body and damaging himself.
-Shirou in "Fate" would definitely practice tracing heavily after the 5th war, and would be a matter of time before he masters UBW. However when he is practicing he will meet the problem of tracing swords inside himself when he try to trace too much swords he will damage himself heavily, resulting in his bleached hair we see in archer. Since karen replaces kotomine in the church at Fuyuki, it is only a matter of time before shirou meets her and acquire the cloth for his soon to be trench coat. Karen will give it to shirou to prevent him from killing himself practising UBW.And their relationship will likely develop from there.
-Shirou in UBW timeline however will most likely end up with Rin. As village idiot said before, shirou in UBW have a head start compared to his other time line version in learning and mastering UBW so since this version of shirou will not have to go through all continuous practice with regular tracing to learn UBW the damage he suffers from UBW will be minimized and he will have no need for the red trench coat from karen, furthermore since shirou will be leaving with tousaka to London the amount of interaction between him and Karen will be limited and he might never even meet her at all. Indeed, the person that UBW shirou will become is very different from the shirou in Fate.

This was something from a speculation about archer i saw sometime ago on some forum. Personally i thought it made sense. but is just speculation. I m sorry if the above explanation is confusing. English is not my native language and i have a hard time with English grammar. so excuse my bad English if i have any mistake.

[Blade_Lord]

4) He could have killed off Saber easily and every scenario, his UBW (Unlimited Blade Works) is very powerful, which means that he still loves her, also he could not bring himself to hurt Sakura and Ilya, he only hated himself, Shirou. Probably because in the future he faught in the war and Sakura, Rin and maybe Ilya were some of his comerads who died and he could not save them as Shirou.

woa hold on did you say he could kill saber easily in every scenario? Iamandragon says otherwise and the only way archer can defeat saber is by unlocking the true form of Kasho and Bakuya.

[iamandragon]

Indeed. UBW against other servants is just another powerful skill, but if fighting head on will not give Archer a sure-win situation. Archer suffers from the one-rank-down virus, and even he can project many swords, there is still one Archer and he can only wield them one at a time. As for shooting swords, there is a limit of how many swords he can shoot, and that is about 18. Most servants will have their own method to repel/deflect/avoid this shots if the know it is coming.

You can find that out by going to the last battle against Gilgamesh to know that the maximum weapon Shirou can project at the same time one time is 18. This capacity is determined by the amount of magic circuits, not mana reserve, which cannot be improved per person.

As for unlocking the true form of Kansho and Bakuya, it is still not a gaurenteed win against Saber. The reason Saber was defeated by them is because she was corrupted, causing her to loose her natural ability 'instinct' has been down-ranked, weakening her frontal combat capability. Not to mention Invisible Air is no long active when she is [censored].

[Blade_Lord]

I was wondering is archer in the fate route the same as archer in UBW and HF?
Nasu didn't specifically point out from which time-line does he come from.

Archer suffers from the one-rank-down virus

Uhh one-rank virus?

Archer was summoned before his time of glory,he is unknown in that era so that's why he's weak. Time-line affects the servant, the more well known the servant the stronger he/she is.

[iamandragon]

If Archer is from one of the three F/SN routes, he can only be from the Fate route since he knows that Shirou has Avalon in him.

Unlike other servants, Archer did not become a servant by becoming a hero, but rather, he made a pact with the world itself to become a counter guardian, and summoned to the 5th HG war as a servant.

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Uhh one-rank virus?

One-rank-down virus as in all weapons he traced are always one rank lower at their best.

[Blade_Lord]

Unlike other servants, Archer is did not become a servant by becoming a hero, but rather, he made a pact with the world itself to become a counter guardian, and summoned to the 5th HG war as a servant. One-rank-down virus as in all weapons he traced are always one rank lower at their best.

Didn't he saved a lot of people?How's that not making him a hero. He made the pact to be counter guardian after he realized that he can't protect everyone right?