Fansub Comparison site

[Cloud668]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

absolutely noone cares except maybe the people who did it

you can use them to find out what people did what job, in order to avoid a few certain people that you know you wouldn't like their work :P

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Cloud668

you can use them to find out what people did what job, in order to avoid a few certain people that you know you wouldn't like their work :P

Most new people I got to know over the years have either improved far beyond what first impressions they left, or they quit prematurely. Fansubbing credits only filled the former scene with hate and envy, and I'm glad the trend is going away. I can't believe I was actually pro-credits say 3 years ago. <_<;

[pichu]

Originally Posted by Toua

Most new people I got to know over the years have either improved far beyond what first impressions they left, or they quit prematurely. Fansubbing credits only filled the former scene with hate and envy, and I'm glad the trend is going away. I can't believe I was actually pro-credits say 3 years ago. <_<;

Yes, fansubbing credits are just overhype nowadays, nearly with no meanings at all. For example, I've been using pichu as my credits for a while, only because I like pichu (the pokemon). The credit doesn't even mean anything in regards of who I am and what I can accomplish. That is, it can be left out whatsoever.

[ScR3WiEuS]

WHAT????? But credits are like epenis extensions :'(

[False Dawn]

Credit where credits due?

I personally don't mind either way, though I prefer fansubbers to be credited because it gives me an idea what to expect straightaway. But then, I'm the type of person who will notice good editing or timing or whatever and want to know who did it so I can keep an eye out for them. I'd imagine non-subbers wouldn't give a rat's ass about fansubbing staff.

[b0nk]

Heh, I agree with FD in that having credits is nice for assuming how the episode will be. Someone with a respected reputation for his or her positions is always nice to see on a series when you are torn between 2 groups. A lot of times that is the deciding factor for me.

[Trance]

I agree with False Dawn and b0nk as well, credits will keep you on the look out for fansubbers that you like their work and vice versa :P and it'll probably help you decide between groups.

[juggen]

Can't say credits matter much for the average watcher though.
If they care for quality, they only watch for group-tags.

[zoot]

Originally Posted by b0nk

Heh, I agree with FD in that having credits is nice for assuming how the episode will be. Someone with a respected reputation for his or her positions is always nice to see on a series when you are torn between 2 groups. A lot of times that is the deciding factor for me.

But you have to download it to see the credit, which is of limited value ...

I'm thankful for fansubbers, but having the translator's name next to the director's is a bit much. :) It also often adds a metric ton of text on top of the OP, generally doing really bad things to the tone and feel of the video.

Other things that I'd find useful to get from a review site: putting kanji/romaji/English versions of the lyrics all on top of the show (who started that? I'm trying to watch the show!), using bouncy karaoke effects that distract from the real show (often ones that make the text disappear as it's heard, rendering the text largely useless for me); overlaying "brought to you buy JoeBobFansubs" on top of the title splash (er, no, CLAMP brought this to me).

Used to be any credits would be in the eyecatch (could probably also use the sponsor splash), and lyrics alternated between just a transliteration and just a translation.

Also, adding their own gags to the show (pissed me off in Hidamari Sketch), timing quality, extraneous notes on screen (please don't explain "itadakimasu"--some groups have a separate softsub track without these, which is nice), subjective translation quality (personally, I'm not a fan of heavy use of italics/bold, caps, translations of mumbling/food-in-mouth-talking, or idiom/cultural-reference conversion).

About some of the old (old) posts in the thread (since it remains interesting, even if the links are all dead): in my opinion, biased reviews, whether about subs, shows, or anything else, are good and useful. People compare and review according to their own preferences and tastes, and the key is to find reviewers whose opinions are close to your own. Sometimes I read reviews by people I know hold opinions that tend to be the polar opposite of mine, so I can see what he doesn't like. :)

[b0nk]

Originally Posted by zoot

I'm thankful for fansubbers, but having the translator's name next to the director's is a bit much. It also often adds a metric ton of text on top of the OP, generally doing really bad things to the tone and feel of the video.

Other things that I'd find useful to get from a review site: putting kanji/romaji/English versions of the lyrics all on top of the show (who started that? I'm trying to watch the show!), using bouncy karaoke effects that distract from the real show (often ones that make the text disappear as it's heard, rendering the text largely useless for me); overlaying "brought to you buy JoeBobFansubs" on top of the title splash (er, no, CLAMP brought this to me).

Heh, seems to me you should stick to DVDs since what you described is exactly what DVDs offer to the true minimalist like yourself. Fansubs should be known as funsubs since that is what they are. Why do we add our staff credits fancy karaoke and AFX splash screen? Simple because we can. Don't like it, then wait for the DVDs or watch early fansubs made in 2000. Too much for your screen still? Then the simple answer to that is; learn Japanese and watch raws then you'll be truly happy with the result since there are no subs to distract your screen. Enjoy

[False Dawn]

From the review zoot posted a link to:

Spirited Away earned scores equivalent to some R-rated movies in Wanton Violence/Crime and Offense to God

Now I don't mean to racially slur here, but seriously? How uptight do you have to be to believe that? Spirited Away was certainly darker than a lot of children's movies over this side of the world, but then, our movies seem to think children have no intelligence at all. Reviews like that are pointless because all they do is highlight the reviewer's own agenda, not the actual film - even though I watched the film, I gained nothing from that piece of text because of the style it was written in.


EDIT: and ffs, it's a Japanese film! Of course it's not going to have God in it! *grumbles*

[zoot]

Originally Posted by b0nk

Heh, seems to me you should stick to DVDs since what you described is exactly what DVDs offer to the true minimalist like yourself. Fansubs should be known as funsubs since that is what they are. Why do we add our staff credits fancy karaoke and AFX splash screen? Simple because we can. Don't like it, then wait for the DVDs or watch early fansubs made in 2000. Too much for your screen still? Then the simple answer to that is; learn Japanese and watch raws then you'll be truly happy with the result since there are no subs to distract your screen. Enjoy :D

I expected someone would blow me off. :) Don't worry, I don't expect anyone to turn on their heels; if I can get two or three people to give a couple minutes' thought to making sure the show comes first--that's what I hope fansubbing is ultimately about, letting people watch the show--it'll be a net win.

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by zoot

I expected someone would blow me off. Don't worry, I don't expect anyone to turn on their heels; if I can get two or three people to give a couple minutes' thought to making sure the show comes first--that's what I hope fansubbing is ultimately about, letting people watch the show--it'll be a net win.

You say that, but I think we're looking at a period in fansub history where the fansubber ego has been deflated. With more and more subbers being members of many groups, rather than being stalwarts in one, there's less emphasis on e-penis, I reckon. And some groups do what you suggest, not putting fansub credits in (examples being Lunar, a.f.k., Eclipse, etc) and some groups even translate all the staff credits (a.f.k. being one of the more known groups to do this). Triad also have a minimalist approach to karaoke - providing translations rather than anything flashy. So yeah, it's not all as you describe.

And who's to say that people who create flashy karaokes and the like aren't thinking about the show? I know that a number of people enjoy being able to follow the Japanese when they here an OP or ED - in fact, I've been in groups that have released PVs because of this. So you're tarring a lot of groups with the same brush here, without really considering the motivation behind certain actions.

[zoot]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

You say that, but I think we're looking at a period in fansub history where the fansubber ego has been deflated. With more and more subbers being members of many groups, rather than being stalwarts in one, there's less emphasis on e-penis, I reckon. And some groups do what you suggest, not putting fansub credits in (examples being Lunar, a.f.k., Eclipse, etc) and some groups even translate all the staff credits (a.f.k. being one of the more known groups to do this). Triad also have a minimalist approach to karaoke - providing translations rather than anything flashy. So yeah, it's not all as you describe.

Of course. Some don't karaoke, some still alternate translation/transliteration, many don't put group logos next to the title, etc.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

And who's to say that people who create flashy karaokes and the like aren't thinking about the show? I know that a number of people enjoy being able to follow the Japanese when they here an OP or ED - in fact, I've been in groups that have released PVs because of this. So you're tarring a lot of groups with the same brush here, without really considering the motivation behind certain actions.

The "traditional" way of translating OP/EDs, in many I saw, was to alternate: in one episode, show a translation; in the next, show a transliteration. I think that worked very well. (I'm curious about rationale for having the kanji version on screen. Anyone that can read it probably doesn't need to watch fansubs.) I have no trouble following a transliteration without karaoke, and karaoke can be (and, of course, sometimes is) done without being distracting. (When an OP has a carefully placed, quiet, tranquil scene along with the music, and the karaoke is alternately doing the samba and breakdancing, I get a little sad. :)

[cyth]

Originally Posted by zoot

The "traditional" way of translating OP/EDs, in many I saw, was to alternate: in one episode, show a translation;

That would be the traditional way of anime DVD releases. I have never seen a fansub with that kind of OP/ED translation style.

I'm curious about rationale for having the kanji version on screen. Anyone that can read it probably doesn't need to watch fansubs.

It can be argued that kanji is included to show where the song translation is coming from. After all, most anisong CD singles are released after the shows begin airing. Any poor judgment in song translation can easily be awarded to mishearing the lyrics.

^Of course most fansubbers include it because they can. It's a fansubbing tradition, it looks pretty, and feels like the translation is more complete that way.

[zoot]

Do what you like, of course--I'm just passing along a point of view: more generally, to let the show be pretty, and for the subs to let me understand the show.

Of course, a general solution would be something like softsubs for karaoke, so people like me could turn it off and everyone is happy. (For example, a separate overlay video track, with an alpha component encoded.) Maybe some day.

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by zoot

Of course, a general solution would be something like softsubs for karaoke, so people like me could turn it off and everyone is happy. (For example, a separate overlay video track, with an alpha component encoded.) Maybe some day.

I actually know an encoder who has been attempting softsub karaoke, but it seems to be causing more trouble than it's worth. One day, I expect everything to be softsubbed so that various parts of the sub can be turned off with regards to what the individual wants to watch - and I look forward to it too. At the moment, though, it seems to be a target that hasn't been achieved yet.

[getfresh]

The issue behind softsub karaoke is, even if the encoders computer can do it theres almost certain not everyones computer can render it. If you are pro softsub why not just dump the karaokes and not worry about it. They are pretty pointless to begin with.


On the point of credits. I use to push for credit-less myself but now I kinda have a different pov. Beyond the whole "its so egotistical" whining that ppl seem to be stuck on, I myself will read credits of a sub I'm watching to find out the trans and editor. I know quite a few ppl who do the same. Knowing who actually translated something and who edited it after that person is how I decide which release I want to watch. I don't know enough jap myself to say "oh this tl is better than this one" but over time translators/editors gain reps from other translators/editors over time within the community. Based on their rep for quality I decide which release to watch. Things like encode, TS, and timing as long as they are decent it doesn't really matter imo.

Also a lot of times knowing who did something helps beginners find a person whose work they like to ask questions of.

And since everyone agrees, "No one really reads credits" where exactly is the ego in them these days?

[Shii]

Personally I prefer non-animated, softsubbed karaoke. Animation is distracting.

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by Shii

Personally I prefer non-animated, softsubbed karaoke. Animation is distracting.

If you mean just the base scroll or fill karaoke originally from SSA, even those won't run on everyones computer. Hence the issue with releasing a soft sub karaoke. But if you were talking about static dialogue lines, the type which were common back in the tape sub days then yeah those would run with no issue. If it is a concern of the group to give the audience a clean/raw opening, perhaps they should start releasing with 2 versions of the opening + ending in the container and have them selectable like chapters on a dvd. One version being a hard sub of the karaoke, the other being a static soft sub of the Romaji and English text.