Sword Art Online: Alicization WoU Part 2 Episodes 13 to END

[l.kostas]

Originally Posted by GDB

It wasn't until they saw the Laughing Coffin logo that they started truly questioning the motives. And I'm assuming that just naturally revealed itself while he was flirting with Kirito in the novels.

Even if some of the Koreans knew about Laughing Coffin how many of them would know that symbol? That wasn't in the novel at all. The "patriots" just started killing the "traitors" with a little push from PoH. In a previous episode, when Siune tried to talk to the Koreans, one of the reason Moonphase listened to her was that she talked in Korean. They were supposed to be Japanese who created problems to Koreans and there was a Korean among them? Moonphase suspected things before then.

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[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

And yeah two people showed up, accomplished nothing, and then left after being defeated. Not even sure it really justifies watching the movie since if you cut out that action scene...nothing changes. It just killed some time.

For what it's worth, I watched the movie, and I can barely remember any of it...

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by GDB

I just feel like villains who are evil just to be evil aren't interesting in the slightest. The best villains are those with either noble goals or at least some level of gray goal that got twisted along the way.

Here, here. The age of the cartoonish unredeemably "evil for evil's sake!" villain is long over and the ones remaining should be excoriated whereever they appear. They are mostly lame (with some very notable exceptions).

[Anh_Minh]

Vassago isn't really evil for evil's sake, he's evil because he didn't get hugged enough as a child. Which is actually worse, to me. (I don't know how the people who weren't hugged enough as children and didn't turn into sociopaths feel about the cliché.)

[GDB]

As far as I'm concerned, that's the same as being evil for evil's sake. He isn't trying to do something that he feels is beneficial to the world in a misguided or mistaken way. He just wants to kill because he's angry.

[Jan-Poo]

Well if there's one thing that SAO never delivered was a good memorable villain. They are usually the kind that just get on your nerves and that you just want to punch in the face. When the author tries to make them look sympathetic that usually never really works or it feels wrong, at least for me.

There are characters that are evil for the sake of evil, because they literally love doing evil things, that are absolutely great and badass, like the Major from Hellsing.

And then there are characters that are evil but they have a misguided goal that in their eyes is good, like Thanos from the Marvel movies.

There are then characters that become the villain because they have a dark past that just made them that way, like Lucy from Elfen Lied or Sakura from Heaven's Feel.


They can all work, as long as you can write them well, but that just doesn't happen in SAO. Quinella is the only one that I don't consider a complete failure, but just think of her henchman... damn that was godawful.

[BluePhirePB]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

For what it's worth, I watched the movie, and I can barely remember any of it...

Ya same lol. Something about Asuna getting tired? lol.

I vaguely remember the two random characters that showed up this ep and promptly disappeared. In the end it was for nothing lol.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I think the whole PoH background both source material and anime have their pros and cons. Both have some good elements and both kind of suck in different ways. So I'm mostly fine with what we got since it's just differently flawed from what we could have got. Not sure he needed to be a psycho racist or that he even really needed much of a backstory. Could have just been a really bad guy who got swept up in the SAO incident and did the only thing that came naturally to him...being a killer.

I think it does explain why he's so obsessed with messing with Kirito. He's projecting his half-brother onto him.

And yeah two people showed up, accomplished nothing, and then left after being defeated. Not even sure it really justifies watching the movie since if you cut out that action scene...nothing changes. It just killed some time.

Maybe I'm just taking a more flattering view of things but I think they bought Higa time to start the process to bring Kirito back and exposing PoH means the knights are likely not going to start fighting again once he's beaten.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

For what it's worth, I watched the movie, and I can barely remember any of it...

I guess I just really enjoyed Ordinal Scale .

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Here, here. The age of the cartoonish unredeemably "evil for evil's sake!" villain is long over and the ones remaining should be excoriated whereever they appear. They are mostly lame (with some very notable exceptions).

I don't think their cartoonish (I mean, Sugou definitely was) but the popularity of JoJo villains tells me unredeemable and vile villains work when you execute them well and when they fit the story.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Vassago isn't really evil for evil's sake, he's evil because he didn't get hugged enough as a child. Which is actually worse, to me. (I don't know how the people who weren't hugged enough as children and didn't turn into sociopaths feel about the cliché.)

Originally Posted by GDB

As far as I'm concerned, that's the same as being evil for evil's sake. He isn't trying to do something that he feels is beneficial to the world in a misguided or mistaken way. He just wants to kill because he's angry.

I don't see what's wrong with that from an individual character (and antagonist) perspective. I don't think being an awful person or having a terrible world view makes one "evil for evil's sake," they're just rotten and messed up people.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

They can all work, as long as you can write them well, but that just doesn't happen in SAO. Quinella is the only one that I don't consider a complete failure, but just think of her henchman... damn that was godawful.

Quinella is one example of a villain who is lacking in redeemable qualities (unless you count 'being hot" as redeemable...) but was still an effective villain in my opinion.

[FlareKnight]

Either way I'm glad we're moving on. Hopefully the whole next episode won't be some trip down memory line for Kirito leading to him waking up at the very end of it. But you never know since it could be.

I was wondering why Kirito waking up would change anything, but I suppose this episode kind of explains that. If someone just randomly picks a fight here everyone will just stand there in awe and watch it happen. Despite the fact that they could instantly slaughter everyone, including Kirito, they are ok with simply restraining Asuna and company and watching any duels that may happen. Kirito can smash this guy, the sensible people can talk down the crowd, and everything is good. Minus all the people in the underworld that were slaughtered and aren't coming back, but things are mostly good...

I'm still curious what the end game for this arc will be. Kind of nice that Higa only now kind of realizes how freaking evil their plans originally were, but still not sure the whole project of using underworld people as AI soldiers is going to be halted. That's a lot of episodes down the road here, but something I'm still pondering about.

[Frontier]

Now we're into "Alicization Lasting," with Kirito now sporting his Incarnate eyes in battle in the Opening and a glimpse of Alice seemingly in the real world .

So Vassago doesn't "hate" Kirito per se...he views him as the Batman to his Joker, which means he gets ultimate pleasure from keeping Kirito alive and torturing him as much as possible. Considering his hangups with his half-brother, I question whether this is also Vassago exhibiting a kind of sick and twisted sibling love he's projecting on Kirito .

If a person believes themselves powered by all the people they kill, in a world where belief gives one power, it stands to reason that they would gain even more powerful on a battlefield filled with death .

But not to be outdone, our leading lady Asuna once again finds belief in herself with the help of her comrades and the spirit of Yuuki to stand up and fight against Vassago. Goddess Stacia? More like Angelic Asuna! With a heavenly transcendent Mother's Rosario to go along with it .

I guess if we're going to get to the root of Kirito's self-guilt, you have to go back to the Black Cat's and Sachi's deaths and how Kirito feels responsible for it. His failure to save them and all the violence and death that has surrounded his life have left him questioning his worth to live, especially after losing someone as precious to him as Eugeo was .

But Eugeo, and all the girls who love Kirito, help him realize that his life means something and that he doesn't need to continue to punish himself, not after all the good he has done and the positive impact he had on their lives. And it is that belief that finally lets Kirito let go of his guilt and stand up once again .

No entrance quite like using Eugeo's swords at it's purest power to freeze all the enemies in place. Re-growing your own arm after willing it into a shield isn't too shabby either .

That's what you get for interrupting the long-awaited reunion between Kirito and Asuna, Vassago! I'm expecting full KiritoxAsuna mushiness and epic fights next week .

[AntonKutovoi]

Sleeping Beauty is finally back.

[Magewolf]

I was expecting it to be bad but they out did themselves. I think this may be the worst episode of the whole franchise. Power-up after power-up pulled out of people's asses all to end up being pointless because nothing matters until Kirito can get enough people massaging his ego so he is willing to stand back up.

[velvet nightmare]

damn I hope the writing in the LN isn't this bad.

vassago wants to bring kirito back just so he can kill him in a weakened state? what happened to all the respect in kirito he was talking about?

and Asuna, "i won't lose to someone like you". you mean just like how she was just about to lose, and still lost, after a deus ex yuuki appears? and losing even after that dilutes the emotional impact of her link to yuuki.


honestly if only they transferred a bit of budget to the writing team from the animation team, this show would be so much better.

[FlareKnight]

Apparently I asked a silly question. Is Kirito OP enough to halt a gigantic army of Chinese and Korean players? Yes...the answer was yes . He is absolutely that OP.

Again they are left in a bad spot here. They want Kirito to take this guy down. Which means literally everyone else is useless. Asuna can't have an awesome moment that lasts because Kirito still has to have someone to fight here. Considering he's going to get to fight the last boss I'm not sure why he has to be the one to bring down Vassago, but whatever.

But it writes them into a corner. If Asuna takes down Vassago then Kirito wakes up and...doesn't do much since the other psycho is on his way after Alice. Kind of wanted it both ways of not only letting Kirito be the hero, but making it so he has to be the hero. Kind of feel bad for Yuuki's ghostly moment since it didn't really do anything. Vassago was already somehow brainwashing everyone (weapon ability?). It's like those two who randomly fought him last week. It changed nothing. I know it technically buys time. But we're talking about Kirito coming to a realization in his own mind. That can just happen quicker than what's going on around him.

More of a source issue probably. But be nice to just have someone else step in. Let Asuna bring down Vassago and have there be someone else for Kirito to fight. Or have Vassago pull a different account that at least lets Asuna accomplish something in forcing him to his last option.

If you ignore all that...it was nice to hear that classic song again . Kirito's theme song is practically playing and he's set to wipe the floor with Vassago. All that seriousness is out the window. With Kirito back it's just a fun ride of crazy action and a one-man show. Everyone else had their time to try and do things. Now he's back and taking his series over.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

I was expecting it to be bad but they out did themselves. I think this may be the worst episode of the whole franchise. Power-up after power-up pulled out of people's asses all to end up being pointless because nothing matters until Kirito can get enough people massaging his ego so he is willing to stand back up.

Well, the whole setting is supposed to lend itself to powerups depending on the subjects belief and willpower. That's the whole basis for the Incarnate system and what we've been seeing from a few characters over the course of Alicization.

Kirito just happens to have the most experience using it.

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

vassago wants to bring kirito back just so he can kill him in a weakened state? what happened to all the respect in kirito he was talking about?

He was expecting Kirito to be able to fight once he woke up again.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Apparently I asked a silly question. Is Kirito OP enough to halt a gigantic army of Chinese and Korean players? Yes...the answer was yes . He is absolutely that OP.

Well, technically, he and Eugeo together are that OP since he's using Eugeo's sword and powers .

Again they are left in a bad spot here. They want Kirito to take this guy down. Which means literally everyone else is useless. Asuna can't have an awesome moment that lasts because Kirito still has to have someone to fight here. Considering he's going to get to fight the last boss I'm not sure why he has to be the one to bring down Vassago, but whatever.

I don't think it took away from the awesomeness of the moment considering the damage she did to him and she saved that soldier he was about to kill, but I don't think Eiji was useless either so I guess it's just a difference of opinion .

But it writes them into a corner. If Asuna takes down Vassago then Kirito wakes up and...doesn't do much since the other psycho is on his way after Alice. Kind of wanted it both ways of not only letting Kirito be the hero, but making it so he has to be the hero. Kind of feel bad for Yuuki's ghostly moment since it didn't really do anything. Vassago was already somehow brainwashing everyone (weapon ability?). It's like those two who randomly fought him last week. It changed nothing. I know it technically buys time. But we're talking about Kirito coming to a realization in his own mind. That can just happen quicker than what's going on around him.

They needed time to actually access his mind and they needed enough time for Eugeo to get through to him. Considering how long he's been stuck in that state I don't think it was going to be a quick fix.

More of a source issue probably. But be nice to just have someone else step in. Let Asuna bring down Vassago and have there be someone else for Kirito to fight. Or have Vassago pull a different account that at least lets Asuna accomplish something in forcing him to his last option.

I'm fine with giving Asuna a win but I feel like Kirito has more invested in beating Vassago then she does. Heck, Asuna took out his first account when she logged in and used her Stacia powers so that puts her about even with Bercouli even if it wasn't a solo one-on-one fight.

If you ignore all that...it was nice to hear that classic song again . Kirito's theme song is practically playing and he's set to wipe the floor with Vassago. All that seriousness is out the window. With Kirito back it's just a fun ride of crazy action and a one-man show. Everyone else had their time to try and do things. Now he's back and taking his series over.

I don't think it's going to be that much of a cakewalk, especially when we still have Miller to deal with, a few episodes left, and whatever that monster thing in the Opening is (Vassago?). And I'm sure everyone will have their part to play because Kirito has always needed help .

[Wandering Soul]

Sorry other characters, you had your chance. Now it's time for Kirito to steal the spotlight and do everything himself

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Sorry other characters, you had your chance. Now it's time for Kirito to steal the spotlight and do everything himself

He's literally only there because of all of their effort to bring him back though .

He's been stuck in a wheelchair for 18 episodes so I don't think turning the spotlight back on him is all that egregious. It makes it sound like nothing has happened of note while he was in said wheelchair, which I don't think is true.

[Marina2]

I don't understand people logic here, everyone else is useless because they can't take down a big bad guy by themselves?? Did their effort to fight until now, their effort to protect Kirito and to bring him back doesn't matter a bit?

If you ask "but....what is point of those efforts if they are failed in the end?" then I say "They are rewarded by the return of their hero who will finished what they hope to achieve"

Author already did good at his writing by giving everyone a fair share of screen time and roles in the story.

It will be a real bad writing if MC ended up doesn't do anything until the end. He have been siting on that wheelchair for 18 eps....

[Shinji103]

This is why I wasn’t looking forward to this part, because I knew everybody was going to be helpless and useless so the resident Jesus could show up and cheese-pawn the whole field. It really cheapens everything the other characters went through, especially the dramatic Leafa suffering and Asuna’s Yuuki power-up, when it all amounts to nothing unless Jesus shows up and wins the day. Terrible writing.

Hopefully the inevitable KiritoxAsuna lovey-dovey to follow soon will be mushy enough to wash this bad taste out of my mouth.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I don't understand people logic here, everyone else is useless because they can't take down a big bad guy by themselves?? Did their effort to fight until now, their effort to protect Kirito and to bring him back doesn't matter a bit?

If you ask "but....what is point of those efforts if they are failed in the end?" then I say "They are rewarded by the return of their hero who will finished what they hope to achieve"

Author already did good at his writing by giving everyone a fair share of screen time and roles in the story.

It will be a real bad writing if MC ended up doesn't do anything until the end. He have been siting on that wheelchair for 18 eps....

Asuna taking out the insane killer followed by everyone banding together to kill the big bad would workout fine. Then having Kirito wake up just as they are getting news that everything is safe in the real world would have made as close to a good ending as this franchise has ever gotten.