Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[PentingWolf]

Originally Posted by XFire

Fujimaru/Gudao in FGO and his fellow paladins.

I've a completely different opinion about Astolfo in FGO. I really feel he has an interest in the opposite sex in F/GO. FGO Astolfo is more lewd, while Apo Astolfo is more pure.

Originally Posted by XFire

Possibly. Fate anime has always been about spectacle.

I didn't like what they did in the anime, everything seemed so stupid and forced.

1. Astolfo can regenerate, but he didn't, for any reason.

2. Astolfo's master could have used the command seals for various things, but she didn't, for any reason.
2.1. She could pull him off the battlefield.
2.2. She could send him to kill Mordred with his spear while Frankenstein has her in a choke hold. (Paladin armament is super-effective against Mordred’s armor, the sword that Astolfo has given to Sieg is a very good example of that).
2.3. She could send him to kill Mordred while Mordred regenerated.

3. Shishigou knows what the exact moment he need to use command seal to save Mordred in the fight with Frankenstein. (it bothered me in the LN too). That's just ridiculous and absurd for two reasons:
3.1. He is not seeing the fight.
3.2 Mordred doesn't communicate with him during his battle with Frankenstein.
They didn't even show him using the first command seal in the anime, which makes everything more ridiculous and non-sense.

When I saw this part in the anime I immediately remembered Gundam IBO S2.

Spoiler:

Mordred and Shishigou = Rustal team
the others = Tekkadan

Episode 11 preview

YouTube

https://youtu.be/nOoI84r9Uwc

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[ReddyRedWolf]

Hold it. It was said servant possession should be impossible for a mere human... Looks at Laeticia and Jeane D'Arc.

I'm confused.

[XFire]

Reminder that Astolfo's Master is the sadist lady saving her seals to "break" him after the war.


She's an idiot.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Hold it. It was said servant possession should be impossible for a mere human... Looks at Laeticia and Jeane D'Arc.

I'm confused.

Laeticia was willing and her body was compatible.

[XFire]

Also Ruler gets the Grail to manhandle the concept of impossible every time she wants something

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Either Fran is nerfed, or Mordred is just THAT strong. Going by my first theory, becaiuse I don't see Arturia tanking that herself.

Artoria's Magic Resistance is even more absurd than Mordred's. So yes, she would have been able to tank that.

[Jaden]

Watching Sieg in this episode reminded me of Shirou in FSN.

When Shirou clumsily tried to fight servants, I found it equally idiotic and cringeworthy, but he grew on me eventually. His suicidal actions were well explained by his mental illness, and that's what made the character interesting. His triumphs were enabled by possessing Saber's NP, and being fated to become a hero.

So I'm holding hope that maybe Sieg eventually develops into something as well. The problem is, he's a blank slate homunculus with no past and no personality, is driven only by childish ignorance, and all he's done is inherit the power of another character...still a long way from anything likable.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Artoria's Magic Resistance is even more absurd than Mordred's. So yes, she would have been able to tank that.

She wouldn't, because Mordred can't either.

The anime screwed itself because if Mordred was that durable by herself no one would be able to hurt her.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Caules knew Fran had no chance of winning against Mordred under normal circumstances, so he had to use them or both Fran and Astolfo would have beaten the dust. There was no running away from Mordred. Better to lose one servant than two.

By the way, how high is Mordred's defense? Fran's regular attacks did nothing to her. I figure it must be quite high. Or maybe Fran is just that weak.

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Either Fran is nerfed, or Mordred is just THAT strong. Going by my first theory, becaiuse I don't see Arturia tanking that herself.

Honestly, Fran is just that weak.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

She got pulled out in the novel? That's interesting. So, did the author change things in this episode coz he wanted something more "bombastic" for anime eye-candy? It's a visual medium after all.

If I recall, Go Lion teleported her out of range of the attack.

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

I've a completely different opinion about Astolfo in FGO. I really feel he has an interest in the opposite sex in F/GO. FGO Astolfo is more lewd, while Apo Astolfo is more pure.

I didn't like what they did in the anime, everything seemed so stupid and forced.

1. Astolfo can regenerate, but he didn't, for any reason.

2. Astolfo's master could have used the command seals for various things, but she didn't, for any reason.
2.1. She could pull him off the battlefield.
2.2. She could send him to kill Mordred with his spear while Frankenstein has her in a choke hold. (Paladin armament is super-effective against Mordred’s armor, the sword that Astolfo has given to Sieg is a very good example of that).
2.3. She could send him to kill Mordred while Mordred regenerated.

3. Shishigou knows what the exact moment he need to use command seal to save Mordred in the fight with Frankenstein. (it bothered me in the LN too). That's just ridiculous and absurd for two reasons:
3.1. He is not seeing the fight.
3.2 Mordred doesn't communicate with him during his battle with Frankenstein.
They didn't even show him using the first command seal in the anime, which makes everything more ridiculous and non-sense.

1. if you were paying attention, you'd know the energy to heal her would've come out of the homunculi.
2. In case you haven't noticed, his master's a bitch. She wants to break Astolfo so she's not helping him. She's doesn't seem to be taking this war very seriously.
3. He was monitoring the fight somehow. Magi have ways of doing so.

Originally Posted by Dengar

Artoria's Magic Resistance is even more absurd than Mordred's. So yes, she would have been able to tank that.

I don't think Magic Resistance applies to Blasted Tree.

Originally Posted by Jaden

Watching Sieg in this episode reminded me of Shirou in FSN.

When Shirou clumsily tried to fight servants, I found it equally idiotic and cringeworthy, but he grew on me eventually. His suicidal actions were well explained by his mental illness, and that's what made the character interesting. His triumphs were enabled by possessing Saber's NP, and being fated to become a hero.

So I'm holding hope that maybe Sieg eventually develops into something as well. The problem is, he's a blank slate homunculus with no past and no personality, is driven only by childish ignorance, and all he's done is inherit the power of another character...still a long way from anything likable.

He's a blank slate who's only frame of reference is Siegfried's sacrifice and Astolfo's heroics. I've read the novels and spoilers. Sieg's story is him going from zero to hero.

[PentingWolf]

Originally Posted by XFire

Also Ruler gets the Grail to manhandle the concept of impossible every time she wants something

yeah, Jeanne is receiving Mana directly from the Greater Grail. Ruler is possessing a human body, an unprecedented summoning with a very weak link to the current world, so she has a number of irregularities that do not plague regular Servants. She has the physical abilities of a Servant, but since she is linked to a physical human body through the realm of the unconscious, she has to carry on her life as a human . She cannot turn into spiritual form, and she must deal with the body's needs of hunger and sleep. Ruler kept a backup of Laeticia's body. When she achieved her objective or if she was killed midway through the war, at that instant, Laeticia's body would return to its original form as recorded in the backup and, depending on the situation, would be forcefully transported somewhere safe. With that process, no matter how many wounds this body received, it would immediately regenerate.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

yeah, Jeanne is receiving Mana directly from the Greater Grail. Ruler is possessing a human body, an unprecedented summoning with a very weak link to the current world, so she has a number of irregularities that do not plague regular Servants. She has the physical abilities of a Servant, but since she is linked to a physical human body through the realm of the unconscious, she has to carry on her life as a human . She cannot turn into spiritual form, and she must deal with the body's needs of hunger and sleep. Ruler kept a backup of Laeticia's body. When she achieved her objective or if she was killed midway through the war, at that instant, Laeticia's body would return to its original form as recorded in the backup and, depending on the situation, would be forcefully transported somewhere safe. With that process, no matter how many wounds this body received, it would immediately regenerate.

You copy-pasta'd that from the wiki, didn't you?

[PentingWolf]

Originally Posted by XFire

You copy-pasta'd that from the wiki, didn't you?

yeah, because it doesn't contain any spoiler
This might help people minimize their doubts.

[PentingWolf]

Originally Posted by bakato

1. if you were paying attention, you'd know the energy to heal her would've come out of the homunculi.

Celenike and Caule are magi, and they can provide magical energy to restore his servant, even without the help of the homunculi.
Reika (Jack's master) is the only master it cannot provide magical energy to restore his servant, because she is not a magus, and thus not a proper Master. It's exactly for that reason that Jack needs to devour hearts to restore his magical energy, since he is unable to restore his magical energy from her master.

Originally Posted by XFire

Reminder that Astolfo's Master is the sadist lady saving her seals to "break" him after the war.

Originally Posted by bakato

2. In case you haven't noticed, his master's a bitch. She wants to break Astolfo so she's not helping him. She's doesn't seem to be taking this war very seriously.

Astolfo ran a serious risk of dying during his battle with Mordred. As you yourselves said, Celenike wants to break Astolfo, which it is differen from wanting to watch him die.
Remember that if Astolfo dies, Celenike will no longer be able to break him. For a sadist, that would have been a fate worse than death.
Oh it's serious, didn't you guys think about this?

Originally Posted by bakato

3. He was monitoring the fight somehow. Magi have ways of doing so.

It’s a theory based on pure guesswork.
Pay special attention to the dialogues between Mordred and Shishigou during these battles (anime or LN), the only knowledge Shishigou demonstrates about these battles are those which have been provided by Mordred via communication.
Apo's servants monitor the fights through a monitor. This becomes even more evident in the anime. Caules, Celenike, Shioru, Shakespeare and Semiramis were watching the fights through a monitor. Pay special attention to the Shishigou scenes within the car, there is no any monitor, there is no any brightness of the leds on the glasses/clothes or car too.

Originally Posted by bakato

I've read the novels and spoilers.

Volumes 1, 2 and 4, Are you going to finish translating the volume 3, and what about volume 5? You're referring to the damn spoilers from the Reddit and Beasts Lair communities, totally based on personal taste preferences (''hate'' and ''fanboying''), where spoilermans always overestimate the characters they like and underestimate the characters they hate. People just like shitting on Apo and and some of his characters because some Reddit and Beasts Lair users spoiled the whole thing without the real translation.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

Celenike and Caule are magi, and they can provide magical energy to restore his servant, even without the help of the homunculi.
Reika (Jack's master) is the only master it cannot provide magical energy to restore his servant, because she is not a magus, and thus not a proper Master. It's exactly for that reason that Jack needs to devour hearts to restore his magical energy, since he is unable to restore his magical energy from her master.

The path's of mana flow has been transferred to the homunculi. It takes time to switch it back, which they didn't have in the middle of a battle with a vastly superior opponent.

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

Astolfo ran a serious risk of dying during his battle with Mordred. As you yourselves said, Celenike wants to break Astolfo, which it is differen from wanting to watch him die.
Remember that if Astolfo dies, Celenike will no longer be able to break him. For a sadist, that would have been a fate worse than death.
Oh it's serious, didn't you guys think about this?

.....Hmmm, must not have been loud enough the first time.

SHE'S AN IDIOT

She's barely rational as it is and she probably isn't even considering the possibility he could die.

Celenike.

Is.

An Idiot.

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

It’s a theory based on pure guesswork.
Pay special attention to the dialogues between Mordred and Shishigou during these battles (anime or LN), the only knowledge Shishigou demonstrates about these battles are those which have been provided by Mordred via communication.
Apo's servants monitor the fights through a monitor. This becomes even more evident in the anime. Caules, Celenike, Shioru, Shakespeare and Semiramis were watching the fights through a monitor. Pay special attention to the Shishigou scenes within the car, there is no any monitor, there is no any brightness of the leds on the glasses/clothes or car too.

You're suggesting that Shishigou, probably the most competent Master in the war and specifically hired for his skill, doesn't have some way to watch a fight from afar?

Familiars can link their sights with their masters (and I mean actual familiar's, not Servants), so he could very well have been doing that.

It's far more likely than "oops, energy build-up, better yank my nigh-invulnerable Servant off the field/boost her defense with one of my only three CS".

[Klashikari]

Gentlemen, I hope this will be the last time simple post editing will be required for your "discussions" which are supposed to be based on the anime of F/A.
Mentioning the original material for clarification sake or to expose the difference between both media is fine, as long you don't overdo it. Also please remain civil and avoid personal attacks.