Macross Delta - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, well, apparently people also want to discuss things of which you "tire". Gotta deal with it, I guess.

I just don't feel like dealing with a subplot which has a whole ED foreshadowing it (and the inevitable outcome), built it even with the ending song and the same imaginary (Hayate's warning screen) when it happened to just not bother with subtlety, you know? Plus the commentary of "Hayate needs Freyja" and "Hayate is useless without Freyja" we've known for months that were spelling something like this will happen.

It feels like cheap drama that was added just because lifespan and dad nuked my planet lolXD subplot was easily resolved (yes to me was resolved when Hayate gave that answer to Cassim - it's another theme of the show, so no biggie). I knew it was coming because romantic relationships feed on drama or something to avoid resolution until the end. One of my main reasons I wanted Hayate and Freyja to be best friends only was because of skipping this unecessary and predictable stuff which pointlessly takes on screentime when there's so much to be resolved!

So I feel is a waste of time to discuss it, if that makes sense. To me, the ED 2 already has the resolution. I hope what gets it there isn't some romantic declaration, but ehh, I'll brace myself to be disappointed just in case. I hope it's okay I'll sit out of this one.

Now to more interesting topics!

Originally Posted by magnuskn

As for Mikumo, we'll have to see. It's still pretty unclear where they will take her for the series finale. I would put her chance of doing a big sacrifice to end the series (or before) at about 70%, since she clearly overshadows Freyja at this point.

I hope she doesn't sacrifice herself at all. I think her arc was warming up to people and becoming more human. Freyja changed her. I think Mirage noticed this because she used to ignore her in missions and cut herself alone. Then in episode 7, she was looking after Freyja, breaking her loneliness by trying to stop her from stopping that cat dad and now she accepts people and works with them. Mikumo-Freyja bond and coordination is really hugely important to her character.

I'm worried her scary mind-rape eyes she gave Heinz will flag her as one of the Last Bosses. I really hope not. I want to believe she still retained her humanity even if she awoke her memories.

(I wouldn't say she overshadows Freyja in popularity. Though admittedly I prefer JUNNA as singer. )

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Now, maybe there's some nuance lost in translation, but going by these subs, there's some strong implications. One is that Freyja views Hayate as more than just a friend. She could have said "For my friends, including you!" Instead she said "For our friends, and for you!". This way of putting it suggests a very tight bond. Hayate's reply is kinda redundant, as Freyja is in Walkure. So him signaling Freyja out here is also suggestive.

She didn't say 'friends', she said "For everyone and Hayate." So it was slightly more ambiguous.

[magnuskn]

I'm not saying that it means that the two of them are not going for a romance. But the implications of Cassim's speech are also not portrayed as him not getting it, but rather giving the sage advice an older person would give to someone with less experience. Hence, I think it will have relevance for later in the series. It is still left very unclear, however, which way the show will ultimately go. Which I count as a good thing, the show is not doing the super obvious routes.

[Thess]

If that was the case, Cassim wouldn't have given that small knowing smile after he got their answers. Furthermore, Hayate's answer happens to be one of the main themes of the show according to one of the first interviews we got (which admittedly, they could have brought the meltran-hybrids aging differences with humans with Mirage, but didn't so far. I was waiting if they do bring that up. There's a difference in lifespan for them too).

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

I hope she doesn't sacrifice herself at all. I think her arc was warming up to people and becoming more human. Freyja changed her. I think Mirage noticed this because she used to ignore her in missions and cut herself alone. Then in episode 7, she was looking after Freyja, breaking her loneliness by trying to stop her from stopping that cat dad and now she accepts people and works with them. Mikumo-Freyja bond and coordination is really hugely important to her character.

Agreed. The Mikumo-Freyja moments are almost good enough to make me put aside Hayate-Freyja and just ship Mikumo-Freyja. I have to admit that yuri goggles became tightly fastened around my eyes when Mikumo sang "Happy Birthday" directly to Freyja in this super-sultry voice a couple episodes ago.

Maybe the real love triangle is Hayate-Freyja-Mikumo.

I'm worried her scary mind-rape eyes she gave Heinz will flag her as one of the Last Bosses.

She downed Heinz like I do when I make hamburgers. Ba-Dum-TSS!

Seriously, I hope Heinz wasn't overly scarred by the experience.

Mikumo certainly is very mysterious and interesting. Do you think she might be a more advanced version of Sharon Apple? Maybe Mikumo had a flashback to her very first moment of existence, after having her AI program uploaded into her superhuman body, with all those scientists looking down at their new creation...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Mikumo certainly is very mysterious and interesting. Do you think she might be a more advanced version of Sharon Apple? Maybe Mikumo had a flashback to her very first moment of existence, after having her AI program uploaded into her superhuman body, with all those scientists looking down at their new creation...

But then how do you explain the other flashbacks, the ones where she looks like a priestess singing from those Protoculture towers? That looks like an ancient memory from a distant past to me. The other flashback, when she's surrounded by scientists, looks like something more recent, probably just some years prior the present time.

That's the impression I got at least.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Agreed. The Mikumo-Freyja moments are almost good enough to make me put aside Hayate-Freyja and just ship Mikumo-Freyja. I have to admit that yuri goggles became tightly fastened around my eyes when Mikumo sang "Happy Birthday" directly to Freyja in this super-sultry voice a couple episodes ago.

It's not really a secret I ship Freyja/Mikumo, but I think they are going for uh mother/daughter dynamics...

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Mikumo certainly is very mysterious and interesting. Do you think she might be a more advanced version of Sharon Apple? Maybe Mikumo had a flashback to her very first moment of existence, after having her AI program uploaded into her superhuman body, with all those scientists looking down at their new creation...

Dear god, I hope we don't get another Sharon Apple. I'm just hoping she was found in the ruins and they tried to experiment with her?

[HirouKeimou]

I don't care too much for discussion about romance; however, I do believe it's also extremely one-sided in this series. After all, Mirage is... is she even in this? I mean, love triangles do typically mean both girls/boys will equally have a chance at their chosen love interest even once. Especially in the last three episodes, all even close to romance-oriented scenes have been about Hayate and Freyja. At this point, I'm concerned about Mirage as a character... she is downright bitter about Hayate and Freyja now, which is not a good thing. Hopefully, she'll drop her feelings soon (god I hope so) in order to evolve her character for the finale.

I personally like to believe in this talk of "age differences" or "species differences" is all leading up to possibly a joining of species by healing old wounds. I don't know if Hayate and Freyja will play into this (albeit I believe she hopes they will) but I do hope it's resolved nicely.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Mirage confesses her love to Hayate, Hayate says "I'm sorry, Mirage, but I love Freyja", Mirage says "I know, but I had to tell you", and the confession liberates Mirage.

I'm praying she doesn't.
Not because I like Freyja more than Mirage (especially with Hayate) but it'd be very awkward and progressively create bad drama the likes of even Frontier did not see. I mean, at this point, if Hayate is oblivious to her feelings, it'd be more uncomfortable for him to reject her and it'd be out of his character for him to randomly say "I'm in love with Freyja" like so (and not tell Freyja first).

I know you wish for something to liberate Mirage of her latest crutch and raise her up like she deserves (her character has potential!); however, I don't think a confession will help either her or Hayate.

On another topic, I'd like more progression on if this series will tie into Zero at this point.

[Thess]

Eh, I think that Mirage has bigger problems than her lack of participation in the "love triangle". Like her 15 seconds of screentime and having about four lines of dialogue every episode, for example. Her other problem is her lack of actual relationships with the cast? Every time she interacts with someone else other than Hayate (and Freyja?) is to be a plot device to observe that character or be a witness of that character's change. The Kaname talk amount to nothing about Mirage because she was just an expository tool for us to get to know Kaname's issues and how she's just used as mouthpiece for us to notice Mikumo's change. When Kaname noticed something about Mikumo, we saw her reacting and their relationship changing and give stuff about Kaname too (same thing about Freyja and Mikumo). The scene with Mirage instead is completely one-sided for us to notice this of Mikumo, it says nothing about Mirage or forges their relationship.

[magnuskn]

Overall, the series has really picked up its pace in the last two or three episodes, something which was long overdue. Most characters so far had the emotional depth of a goldfish and now they are at least as far along as characters from more character driven series are by about episode five. That's something.

I am wary of making predictions, since Macross series have a way of defying those, but unless there is a McGuffin which makes the age issue not matter anymore, I personally think Freyja/Hayate isn't the actual endgame. Declarations of "I'll live in the moment!" nonwithstanding, I see the rapid aging issue as a bigger roadblock than many others do. Cassim calcifying rapidly makes me speculate that this effect may soon affect all Windermerans near ruins, including Freyja. You don't put a Chekov's Gun on the table this prominently and not use it.

As for Mikumo, next episode will probably be crucial in determining where she'll go at the end of the series. But normally I don't expect a very powerful protoculture agent to run around freely at the end of this series, until she has been neutralized somehow. Macross series normally don't do an obvious set-up for the next series down the line, so I expect her story to be tied up by the end of Delta.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Bogue....he's now transitioned his rage from Freyja to Reina for something that is entirely not her fault . I mean blaming her for you being attracted just seems....an interesting decision process.

Um, if you noticed that he's blushing when he appeared and get wrecked by Hayate!

Meanwhile, I wonder what NUNS is planning to do at this point now that the ruins got a nice reaction coming from Freyja and Mikumo?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

Um, if you noticed that he's blushing when he appeared and get wrecked by Hayate!

Reina will beat him in videogames next and disarm him in a knife fight then propose marriage.

[Kazu-kun]

I refuse to believe anyone would seriously want Reina to even look at Booger's general direction, let alone date him. My god.

[Thess]

It's doesn't feel like a Kawamori anime without one of these kinds of couples.

[Ura-dora]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I refuse to believe anyone would seriously want Reina to even look at Booger's general direction, let alone date him. My god.

Are you kidding? A Makina x Reina x Bogue love triangle would be awesome. Makina would win of course, or maybe they'll share her . Either way, people are digging it, and fan arts are blowing up.

[Kazu-kun]

No, Booger x anyone would be disgusting.

[Thess]

I'm certain some people said the same about Yunoha x Jin of Aquarion Evol before it actually happened for real and Jin's personality did a 180º turn. Which developed in what? Four episodes and became the show OTP surpassing in popularity any couple of the show, including the main ones? We don't really know what they'll do with this, if anything. I don't think it's going to be dropped, because, if that was the case, they would have done that last episode, dismissing it as a comic relief moment on Bogue's expense, instead it continued on this one.

[Kazu-kun]

Let's all hope something that disgusting doesn't happen in this case.

[Key Board]

I'd rather not have them re-enact Macross Zero's ending where one of the girl becomes possessed by protoculture relic and becomes a proxy final boss

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I don't care too much for discussion about romance; however, I do believe it's also extremely one-sided in this series.

You're right, it's one-sided. And that's another reason I'd like it if Mirage was to confess to Hayate soon, and essentially kill the main love triangle (one way or another). The love triangle could also end by Freyja confessing to Hayate (or vice versa), but if the confession is accepted, that would make Mirage's role in the main love triangle seem even more lackluster. If Mirage confesses, at least it can be said that she put up a fight.

A well-balanced love triangle (True Tears, White Album 2) can be nicely dramatic and suspenseful, but one this one-sided often hurts all participants involved (especially the likely loser) and can become a drag to watch. I also like the idea of the main romance being established before the very last episode.

Also, I get the sense that Kawamori and Nemoto are using the love triangle as a crutch when it comes to writing Mirage, keeping her from doing anything that might actually be interesting. I get the sense of "Mirage is already in the main love triangle, so it's good enough to just show her randomly interacting with other main cast characters." With no main love triangle, maybe Kawamori/Nemoto would think of a different final character arc for Mirage. Maybe they'd even put her in a good noteworthy feud/rivalry with one of the Aerial Knights!

Speaking of which, why couldn't Mirage have been the one to blow Bogue away in this episode? Geez, Hayate already has the rivalry with the most elite knight Keith, isn't that enough for Hayate? Why couldn't we have a Macrossmania double main event of Hayate vs. Keith and Mirage vs. Bogue? That would be fun!

[magnuskn]

At this point, I think the full Zessica effect is in place for Mirage.