Macross Delta - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[magnuskn]

The "one world government" thing is also factually challenged by the current state of affairs in te Macross universe. It's more like the UN at this point, although with more military authority for intervention.

[deadite]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I think you are forgetting that the point of the organization was to help prevent the destruction of the human race. Without the NUN there wouldn't be a Macross Univers.

Sure, but do you think that is anyway morally justifiable? The completely crapped on the sovereignty and self determination of countless countries. One world Governments infringes on people's freedoms. Its not a good thing. They did this by force too. Existence of aliens doesn't change that fact.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by deadite

Sure, but do you think that is anyway morally justifiable? The completely crapped on the sovereignty and self determination of countless countries. One world Governments infringes on people's freedoms. Its not a good thing. They did this by force too. Existence of aliens doesn't change that fact.

We as normal people have no possible way to influence such decision . I think the problem is not NUN itself but those who follow their own personal goal. it's like H.Y.D.R.A within .S.H..I.E.L.D.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by deadite

Sure, but do you think that is anyway morally justifiable? The completely crapped on the sovereignty and self determination of countless countries. One world Governments infringes on people's freedoms. Its not a good thing. They did this by force too. Existence of aliens doesn't change that fact.

Actually UN countries then agreed for a one world government to coordinate a worldwide defense. Elements within those states revolted but with differing reasons.

Some were over race and religion while corporations that supplied the Anti-UN Alliance was over the monopoly of Overtechnology. For example Russia, Germany and Israel were members of the UNG yet portions of it went to the Anti-UN Alliance leading to the Octos, Gustaf, Sv-51 and Sv-52.

No different from Windermwere and Epsilon Foundation's reasons in the revolutionary war.
http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.or...lossary18a.php

Anti Unification Alliance
A collective of various powers who opposed the Earth Unified Government. The reason why they didn't adjust themselves to the Unified Government varies according to the power, such as the confrontation between races and OTM concessions because of the [Unified Government's] monopoly on OTM. They unfavourably compare to the Unified Forces, and even though they developed local wars in various places, which were referred to as the Unification War, the Anti Unification Alliance rapidly weakened from the Bird Man Incident. In addition, when the Zentraadi attack on South Ataria Island was concealed, the Unified Government publicly announced that the attack was terrorism by Anti Unification Alliance remnants.

Windermere's motivations can summed up in Pride, Envy, and Hate. Pride because they believe they are the chosen race like the Marduk did in Macross II. Envy as other races are longer lived than them and Terrans are in their eyes ruling the galaxy wanting to replace them. Not really as there are Zentradi and Supervision Army still duking it out there and Terrans know another encounter with a Main Fleet could end their species. Hate as they want to genocide Terrans and enslave their associated races.

However for the UNG decentralizing has always been the intent as the Mankind Seeding Plan was to make sure the species and associated races survive even if Earth is lost. After the Varauta campaign and the near invasion of Earth by Zentradi in 2047 by 2048 they had to decentralize due to disasters and pitfalls of a centralized command.

[Mistyclear]

Anyone know when the subs for the episode will come out?
(And no I am not criticizing the sub people for being late)

[Gravitas Free Zone]

They said that they would be late due to people being at AX. Depending on how much they had to travel to get there, Tuesday night would be the earliest possible time, but that's just me guessing based on logic.

[ippus]

Hrm...I've been contemplating the last couple of days whether or not I care enough to keep watching this show every week and honestly...I've slacked this and last week as I just can't seem to care what's going on.

Just reading the summaries so far it just feels like a lot of things got shafted for what I feel is just stuff that has been sorta going on for a while now...

Freyja is always awesome
Hayate and Freyja have super duper connection and they'll be super duper OP
Windermeres want to war rawr
Windermeres are probably semi justified even if they seem super evil RN rawr
Once in a while Mikumo will be part of the plot.
Somewhere there's a spazzing hole.
Songs.
Everyone else...........Eh. They sort of seem to just exist as an anime needs characters.

Maybe it's because I don't know enough about specific lore to enjoy the show but I feel bad being the negative nancy here too so... I thinkkk imma just wait out the series to get closer to the end before returning back to this show again.

Lots of love to the board though! Reading summaries/discussions here is what upped my enjoyment of Frontier and is frankly the only reason I hold any interest in Delta right now ;v;!

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by ippus

Hrm...I've been contemplating the last couple of days whether or not I care enough to keep watching this show every week and honestly...I've slacked this and last week as I just can't seem to care what's going on.

Just reading the summaries so far it just feels like a lot of things got shafted for what I feel is just stuff that has been sorta going on for a while now...

Freyja is always awesome
Hayate and Freyja have super duper connection and they'll be super duper OP
Windermeres want to war rawr
Windermeres are probably semi justified even if they seem super evil RN rawr
Once in a while Mikumo will be part of the plot.
Somewhere there's a spazzing hole.
Songs.
Everyone else...........Eh. They sort of seem to just exist as an anime needs characters.

Maybe it's because I don't know enough about specific lore to enjoy the show but I feel bad being the negative nancy here too so... I thinkkk imma just wait out the series to get closer to the end before returning back to this show again.

Lots of love to the board though! Reading summaries/discussions here is what upped my enjoyment of Frontier and is frankly the only reason I hold any interest in Delta right now ;v;!

This is a very accurate summary of what makes me feel lukewarm about the show in general. While I appreciate the lore, the show so far seems to be only brushing it. The characters leave me a bit cold and the portrayal of Windermere is wishy-washy evil.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

This is a very accurate summary of what makes me feel lukewarm about the show in general. While I appreciate the lore, the show so far seems to be only brushing it. The characters leave me a bit cold and the portrayal of Windermere is wishy-washy evil.

The reason may be because the series is not character but story driven. the focus is not on character interaction like focusing on love triangle. And before you start with frontier comparison again. leave it aside please. Frontier was good but it's not the nonplus ultra Macross storytelling.

And from the beginning it was clear that windermere is not the true evil in this story.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

The reason may be because the series is not character but story driven. the focus is not on character interaction like focusing on love triangle. And before you start with frontier comparison again. leave it aside please. Frontier was good but it's not the nonplus ultra Macross storytelling.

I'll use Frontier comparisons when I damned please. And for me it was the best Macross series.

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

And from the beginning it was clear that windermere is not the true evil in this story.

Whatever you have to say to excuse war crimes, I guess.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I'll use Frontier comparisons when I damned please. And for me it was the best Macross series.

But it still does not fit to Delta because Delta leans more to Original Macross series rather than Frontier. Also it is not heavy character driven as Frontier. That said, it's totally damn wrong to compare it although it was the best for you. But. we are not you and you are not we. Deltas focus lies somewhere else and thats more about political and ethical themes. If this hasn't gone into your head, you will stay dissappointed about this series.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Whatever you have to say to excuse war crimes, I guess.

NUN has also commited a crime when they detonated the bomb. But your excuse will be it's collateral damage only. Welcome to the true world on how wars are fought if you are in a situation requires drastic measure. I am still waiting, because - also in Frontier - Vajra weren't the evil as well but the ones very close to Frontier/Galaxy. That's why I can't say they are the true evil in this series. no matter what method they used. One thing about your mind control theory. The lady and the boy at the end of episode 14 don't look like they were mind controlled.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

NUN has also commited a crime when they detonated the bomb. But your excuse will be it's collateral damage only. Welcome to the true world on how wars are fought if you are in a situation requires drastic measure. I am still waiting, because - also in Frontier - Vajra weren't the evil as well but the ones very close to Frontier/Galaxy. That's why I can't say they are the true evil in this series. no matter what method they used. One thing about your mind control theory. The lady and the boy at the end of episode 14 don't look like they were mind controlled.

I don't think magnuskn defends what the NUNS did and are currently doing.

Changing subjects, I heard that Kaname is in Newtype ranking! But I'm sad that Messer didn't make it there. Both of them deserved it after Axia.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by Thess

I don't think magnuskn defends what the NUNS did and are currently doing.

Changing subjects, I heard that Kaname is in Newtype ranking! But I'm sad that Messer didn't make it there. Both of them deserved it after Axia.

And I did not justify that windermeres action are right or wrong or warcrime or not. All I said is that windermere is not the pure evil of the series. there are too many puzzles still open to clarify if actions by windermere are a war crime. They sure used a questional tool but this seems to be working on both sides. While Heinz singing tend to control and heighten the strength of the VAR infected, positive singing (like Kaname for Messer) gives the VAR infected his self control back while buffed. At least I would wait until the end until I would judge windermere for guilty or not.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

But it still does not fit to Delta because Delta leans more to Original Macross series rather than Frontier. Also it is not heavy character driven as Frontier. That said, it's totally damn wrong to compare it although it was the best for you. But. we are not you and you are not we. Deltas focus lies somewhere else and thats more about political and ethical themes. If this hasn't gone into your head, you will stay dissappointed about this series.

If I have problems with certain aspects of a series, I'll continue expressing those problems I see. It doesn't matter if someone tells me that a series is more "plot-driven", because I am not blind. That doesn't mean that criticisms of "the characters feel hollow" suddenly are wrong.

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

NUN has also commited a crime when they detonated the bomb. But your excuse will be it's collateral damage only. Welcome to the true world on how wars are fought if you are in a situation requires drastic measure. I am still waiting, because - also in Frontier - Vajra weren't the evil as well but the ones very close to Frontier/Galaxy. That's why I can't say they are the true evil in this series. no matter what method they used. One thing about your mind control theory. The lady and the boy at the end of episode 14 don't look like they were mind controlled.

I am not excusing the use of a reaction bomb by NUNS near a population center. That was just as much a war crime as the things Windermere has done. So take it out of your mind that I am measuring both sides with different sticks.

The Vajra had a very valid excuse for their behaviour, in as such they did not even recognize their opponents as sentient life. It doesn't make me feel so much better about them doing things like squishing Captain Whatsisface (the friend of Ozma from episode one), but since for them it was as if stepping on an ant, at least I intellectually can process that they simply did not know any better. Windermere continues to not have that kind of excuse.

I haven't watched episode 14 in detail yet, so I can't comment on that part. However, the NUNS pilots on Voldor and other planets definitely were mind-controlled.

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

And I did not justify that windermeres action are right or wrong or warcrime or not. All I said is that windermere is not the pure evil of the series. there are too many puzzles still open to clarify if actions by windermere are a war crime. They sure used a questional tool but this seems to be working on both sides. While Heinz singing tend to control and heighten the strength of the VAR infected, positive singing (like Kaname for Messer) gives the VAR infected his self control back while buffed. At least I would wait until the end until I would judge windermere for guilty or not.

Newsflash: War crimes you committed don't magically disappear because you were duped into committing them.

[Benigmatica]

Finished watching Episode 14 today. Man, I'm curious about Mikumo Guynemer's real identity after seeing her form during the dream sequence, as well as Mikumo's connection with Lady M.

While there's some shipping between Hayate and Mirage, seems that Roid Brehm is taking more control over the Kingdom than Lord Heinz.

[Triple_R]

Episode 14 was pretty good. A solid breather episode after the flashy action-packed Episode 13.

Good smooth flow and some nice scenes in this episode. Like Benigmatica, I continue to be curious about the exact nature of Mikumo, and that opening scene was a strong one for continuing to pique that curiosity.

Some nice interactions in this episode between Hayate and Mirage, Hayate and Mirage and Freya, and Freyja with various characters. I liked Freyja and Chuck's brief interaction, actually. I liked how Freyja showed concern for him even though she hasn't had much interaction with him, and I liked how Chuck was worried that his comments on Windermere might have offended Freyja (and how Freyja in turn didn't get upset over them).


All of the above being said, I get where ippus and magnuskn are coming from. Delta is generally well-written, especially in the dialogue department, but it has started to feel kinda safe. They really could use an edgy protagonist or two to spice things up soon. Either that, or the show could use a real curveball or two.

And while Walkure's moment in this episode was good, there is a very similar moment in Frontier that had much better emotional "Oomph!", in my view. I'm pretty confident that Darthtabby, ippus and magnuskn know what moment I'm talking about.

Delta's protagonist cast is deeply likeable, and I love that, but I feel like the show needs to start testing them more, fraying their emotions more. Maybe it's time to start blowing up the core love triangle, and show Freyja and/or Mikumo feeling more than just slight unease or blushing embarrassment over it.

[charles883]

Turn out Windermere claimed on NUNS(or at least corrupt officer) the one use dimensional weapon are true after all

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by charles883

Turn out Windermere claimed on NUNS(or at least corrupt officer) the one use dimensional weapon are true after all

We don't actually know that all we know is that they had a plan 7 years ago and it didn't turn out the way they wanted it to.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by charles883

Turn out Windermere claimed on NUNS(or at least corrupt officer) the one use dimensional weapon are true after all

They are? It is? What?

[s07195]

I really liked this episode. I can't actually see any moment in that tense operation there, including after the operation when they were hanging there, where Hayate could spare the time to be embarrassed. He was focused on putting the pressure and energy to his arms to twist the thing, and then he had to hang on and not fall off.... pretty normal circumstances to not be embarrassed I think.

I think this episode redeemed the series quite a bit for me, but I'll need to think a bit more to understand why... Probably because it wasn't too over-serious I guess? New ED is great and I'm already looping it.

As for the series feeling 'safe'... I really have no way of judging lol. I'm finding these scenarios really unique and the scenarios always raises my tension. Can't wait for next episode.