Naruto Characters' Data Book

[DracoBattousai]

Originally Posted by sarcasteak

Nope, you are reading it correctly and I double-checked on this way because I was surprised as well when I saw it.

That could be the reason why Neji will "Surpass a head family member". If Hizashi was stronger than Hiashi, even slightly, then his traits may have been endowed within his son. Or I may be just flappin my gums in completele tiredness

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by DracoBattousai

That could be the reason why Neji will "Surpass a head family member". If Hizashi was stronger than Hiashi, even slightly, then his traits may have been endowed within his son. Or I may be just flappin my gums in completele tiredness

Nah, Neji just got lucky.

It's not rare for a younger twin brother to be the stronger one.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by sarcasteak

Nope, you are reading it correctly and I double-checked on this way because I was surprised as well when I saw it.

Actually that rather normal I think, Hiashi's the head of the Main Familly, he rules his clan, whereas Hizashi as a Branch Member ninja fought outside Konoha and had more fighting experience.

[rorosama]

That makes since. Since hizashi was a branch member, he probably got more outside experience. Like i said earlier, his stat are only so slightly apart it wouldn't be much of a difference if they were to fight.
Also, wtf! Shinos intelligience is lower than sakura and shikamarus!
He's shown countless times that he's got the smarts with the best of them. Don't know if he's booksmart but he's definetly battle smart. I wouldn't be so mad if he wasn't lower than sakura. Only person he couldn't contend with in tactics would obviously be shikamaru, all other genins he'd outsmart the head off their shoulders!

[Ryota]

Originally Posted by Lazy Shikamaru

I dun think anyone saw my fakey stats for Tsunade and Naruto Berserk

http://www.deviantart.com/view/7343649/

Don't you think Tsuade has FULL Strength?

[Hunter]

You shouldn't take these graphs too literally btw.

Kakashi's ninjutsu is at the max (5), the 3rd as well, do you really think that Kakashi is as good as the 3rd in Ninjutsu? or as good as Oro or Itachi for that matters?

Same thing with power, Gai's already at the max, where will be Tsunade?

[rorosama]

Can you please answer a question sarcasteak? I've been wondering and haven't seen solid evidence. Does it say in the book if a jounin is a higher rank than a special jounin or are they the same rank?

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by rorosama

Can you please answer a question sarcasteak? I've been wondering and haven't seen solid evidence. Does it say in the book if a jounin is a higher rank than a special jounin or are they the same rank?

It was never specified.

Again, we know that special jounins are supposedly jounins who specialize in an area; whether this means they are not jounin-level at all other areas or good all around but even better at that area we don't know, but if the former were the case, wouldn't Kakashi, Kurenai, and Gai all be special jounins considering they are pretty much the masters of nin, gen, and tai (Asuma is totally balanced)? And if we consider what kind of people are special jounins (Ebisu, Anko, Hayate, Ebisu), it might be safe to say that they might not be at standard jounin level. Note: Genma, Raidou, and Aoba seemed to be fairly competent, but they are ranked as special jounins as well.

[sarcasteak]

No one probably cares anymore, but the other Naruto handbook (not the same one) officially answered the naggin' jounin-special jounin question...

Hokage -> Jounin -> Special Jounin -> Chuunin -> Genin

That's it. End of discussion.

Spoiler for Ichiraku Ramen?!:

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by sarcasteak

No one probably cares anymore, but the other Naruto handbook (not the same one) officially answered the naggin' jounin-special jounin question...

Hokage -> Jounin -> Special Jounin -> Chuunin -> Genin

That's it. End of discussion.

But that merely shows the chain command, it's known since age that the special-jounins are under the command of the Jounins, the only question is the reason lol

And this question still remains : pure strenght or particular field of ability.

Better in their speciality but unbalanced, differently speaking, good tactician in their predilection field but no good strategist because of their limitation.
Or just overall weaker than a Jounin.

[Macbrother]

In every other instance, the next level up is always stronger. Why would jounin->S-jounin be any different?

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by Hunter

it's known since age that the special-jounins are under the command of the Jounins

No way...since when?! Then the question is solved already!

Originally Posted by Hunter

And this question still remains : pure strenght or particular field of ability.

Doesn't it become obvious, then, why the special jounins are ranked lower? If they were at jounin-level AND specialize in a particular field, they should be above jounins by default!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Macbrother

In every other instance, the next level up is always stronger. Why would jounin->S-jounin be any different?

Jounin, Chuunin, Genin, etc are military ranks, not an absolute definition of strength.

Spoiler:

Neji, Sasuke, Naruto, etc. are strong enough to be Chuunin, but they're not because they lack the spirit, Jiraiya is/was technically a Jounin even if he's strong enough to be Kage, etc.

Originally Posted by sarcasteak

No way...since when?! Then the question is solved already!

I don't even remember since when, way before the crash of the old forum anyway ^^

Doesn't it become obvious, then, why the special jounins are ranked lower? If they were at jounin-level AND specialize in a particular field, they should be above jounins by default!

No, like I said it' a military rank not an absolute strength squale, but you miss my point, I don't think that they're at jounin level overall, I think that they're are at least at jounin level in their own speciality and only in that.

Ibiki Morino must be better to torture and question than Kakashi, so does Ebisu should be a better teacher, etc.

It's like to say, who's the stronger between the sniper, the explosives specialist and their captain?

[Macbrother]

Jounin, Chuunin, Genin, etc are military ranks, not an absolute definition of strength.

Ok, let me rephrase. In every other instance, the next military rank is assumed to be stronger, and generally is. If you take two random people off of the street, one being a chuunin, one being a genin, generally the chuunin is stronger and more expeirenced. You could do the same for every other level; all I'm saying is, likewise, you would do the same for Jounin->S-Jounin.

[NeoManji]

Did anyone else notice after reading the stats that Sakura and Anko seemed pretty similar?

Spoiler:

They have very similar taste in food. Personality wise if Inner Sakura actually came out to play it would match well with Anko. It would be interesting if Anko became Sakura's teacher instead of Tsunade which ppl are theorizing about though it seems to make sense that the series is leaning towards Sakura learning some medical-nin stuff. But who knows since she has a talent in Genjutsu maybe she learn something that will relegate her from cheerleading. She can make a bunch shadow clones to do the work for her =P. Sucks to see Anko's powerrating to be so low compared to the other Jounin. Especially since Orochimaru took her under his wing that she must have had a lot of potential. Her powerrating is probably the effect of having the draining effect of the seal on you. Anyway another interesting thing to note is that Anko is several years younger thanmost the of the other Jounin. She is 24 and from what we can tell so far Orochimaru's 1st apprentice. Meanwhile Jiraiya picked up the 4th and others who in turn taught the Kakashi generation of Jounin it seems. So that means Orochimaru waited quite a while to pick up students.

[jc1104]

Is Anko supposed to be a Chuunin..? Isn't she a jounin?

[Riese]

Originally Posted by jc1104

Is Anko supposed to be a Chuunin..? Isn't she a jounin?

Anko is a special jonin.

Kurenai has a spike in Genjutsu, and it's hinted that Sakura has talent there.
Who knows, maybe Sakura could benefit from training with her.

[Shadamehr]

Originally Posted by Macbrother

Ok, let me rephrase. In every other instance, the next military rank is assumed to be stronger, and generally is. If you take two random people off of the street, one being a chuunin, one being a genin, generally the chuunin is stronger and more expeirenced. You could do the same for every other level; all I'm saying is, likewise, you would do the same for Jounin->S-Jounin.

I think this is a different case. Chuunins lead genins. They have the same job, and do the same missions, but the chuunins chosen from amongst those genins who can survive and prosper in the Chuunin exam, and can be trusted to lead other genins. So in general, the chuunins will be chosen from amongst the more experienced, who are thus generally stronger.

However, S. Jounins fulfill a specific role, like Ebisu, who is a tutor. He was chosen to be a tutor because he's really good at being a tutor. For one reason or another, the village decides that from a military perspective, the jounins should be higher up than the S. Jounins. This does not provide us any reason to believe they are stronger. The Jounins are not chosen from amongst the best of the S. Jounins. They are probably both chosen from amongst the chuunins.

Imagine you're in the army. Who is generally a better fighter, the raw recruits, or whatever rank is just above them? Probably the higher rank, because they are more experienced, and are chosen from amongst the successful recruits. But now, say we choose from the best of that rank, and assign some of them to be tank drivers, and some of them to be chain gunners. And, because there has to be a strict ranking, for some internal reason, we pick chain gunners to be in command of tank drivers. Can we now say chain gunners are generally better fighters than tank drivers? No, we have no idea.

[Macbrother]

If you knew how jounins and S. Jounins were chosen, you may have some credence to your argument. Until then, all we have to go on is what's shown in the anime and the data book. By all accounts, Jounins are typically stronger than S. Jounins. Compare Ibiki, Anko, or Ebisu to Kakashi, Gai, or Asuma. The level of power difference is obvious. You can make that comparison between any two ranks from Kage to Genin. Again, that is not to say for every case a chuunin is going to be stronger than a genin, and so on for any rank. But, as the standard, if you line any two up, typically the higher rank will be stronger. That shows for any rank.

And let's not be silly by comparing the ninja world to real-life. In real-life, typically a medic would have less combat skills than a trained soldier. That's not at all the case In Naruto, as shown by Kabuto or Tsunade.

[Shadamehr]

Originally Posted by Macbrother

If you knew how jounins and S. Jounins were chosen, you may have some credence to your argument. Until then, all we have to go on is what's shown in the anime and the data book. By all accounts, Jounins are typically stronger than S. Jounins. Compare Ibiki, Anko, or Ebisu to Kakashi, Gai, or Asuma. The level of power is obvious. You can make that comparison between any two ranks from Kage to Genin. Again, that is not to say for every case a chuunin is going to be stronger than a genin, and so on for any rank. But, as the standard, if you line any two up, typically the higher rank will be stronger. That shows for any rank.

I'm not trying to argue that s.jounins are equal to jounins. I'm just saying that the fact that chuunins are generally stronger than genins and kages are generally stronger than everyone else cannot be used to infer anything about s.jounin and jounin because the relative relationships are different. I agree that based on the s.jounins we've seen so far, they probably are weaker, I'm just taking issue with that comparison.