F/SN UBW TV - Episode 21 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[GDB]

Wouldn't really make sense for anything but her own life or Saber's life, really.

[Moekou]

Preview of next episode:

Spoiler for Possible Next Episode Spoilers:

[Mad Pierrot]

Shouldn't Gilgamesh be weaker after his master died?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Shouldn't Gilgamesh be weaker after his master died?

He's got a physical incarnation, so those rules no longer apply.

[Dengar]

His powers do need a steady source of mana, but he has plenty built up, as was demonstrated in Fate route. He doesn't need an anchor or any mana just to exist though.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Shouldn't Gilgamesh be weaker after his master died?

The reason that Servants need a Master is to maintain an anchor between their Heroic Spirit selves, which exist outside of time, and the current era. When Gil was incarnated—given a physical body—by the Grail at the end of the previous Grail War, he effectively became his own anchor. Though I guess it would be more correct to say he no longer requires an anchor, as Dengar suggested.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Levani

It's absurd to think that there is even a slight chance of the sex scene happening next week, it won't happen. People should deal with this and not get uselessly disappointed.

I'm not sure about the Heaven's Feel, since that one is a movie and not a TV series.

Originally Posted by GDB

No one who's sane is expecting them to outright show a sex scene, but they can still imply it. They implied Sakura being raped by worms when she was 4, so why can't consenting 16-17 year olds do it?

They're doing everything else right, so it'd be a shame to have them just ignore the ramifications of giving up a magic crest. Especially since Zero was not subtle about how long and arduous it'd be for Rin to get her father's magic crest.

If the sex is really really needed in the story, they can always use a scene that implied the sex either before or after the deed, for example: 1) one of the pair lying on the bed (almost) naked while the other is taking off his/her clothes, approaching his/her partner then fade to black (for before the sex) or, 2) one of the pair lying on the bed (almost) naked while the other is putting on his/her clothes back (for after the sex), or 3) if the sex activity itself is necessary, they can always go symbolical. I’m not saying we should get another DEEN’s CG dragon but maybe something more sensual yet not explicit? Gundam SEED and SAO, two of the most popular anime series out there, can get away with the first two methods with their main characters even with their supposedly kids or young males target audience.

So again, if the sex is really necessary for the story, Ufotable-team can always include it with style. If later on there is no sex hinted or implied, that means they don’t deemed it as necessary as some fans keep on insisting. I'm fine with whatever UFO is going for as long as it's still makes sense within the story. I'm not obsessed with the sex anyway, so I'm cool with or without it.

Also, for you who like Fate's sex scene, you still have higher chance to get it in the upcoming HF movie, don't you? The movie format is pretty unrestrained and UFO can always blow their huge loads with it .

[Levani]

I don't think it's necessary. The magic transfer thing through sex is just a silly-ass concept and I can't take it seriously. I'd rather have Realta Nua version or an actual consensual and romantic sex scene between the two with no purpose other than to be with the one they love.

[The Green One]

Arguing about whether or not they're going to go the sex route or dolphin is just silly. It honestly doesn't matter. We reach the goal either way, we don't need a Yosuga no Sora level of explicit either, implication works perfectly well.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Levani

I don't think it's necessary. The magic transfer thing through sex is just a silly-ass concept and I can't take it seriously. I'd rather have Realta Nua version or an actual consensual and romantic sex scene between the two with no purpose other than to be with the one they love.

It is a considerable retcon in HF though, because it has a direct effect on Shirou's and Sakura's "level" of relationship and even though it seems strange, the sex scenes had both important character exposition and character development, things you can NOT replicate with "bloodsucking".

In UBW it's quite a bit different. It does not really matter that much, aside from the obvious retcon that in RN Rin loses her Magic Crest, while in the original she doesn't.

[novalysis]

I am willing to bet that the anime will imply that Rin and Shirou indeed had sex, in the same manner that

Spoiler for SAO Spoiler, if you've been living under a rock:

the SAO anime implied Chapter 16.5 took place- Kirito and Asuna had sex with one another.

[Ernietheracefan]

I hate to say this, but Archer & Shirou fight scene is quite meh comparing to Prisma Illya.

About the sex scene: They didn't need that (for now)

[Levani]

I hate to say this, but Archer & Shirou fight scene is quite meh comparing to Prisma Illya.

Archer & Shirou fight scene was never about a physical fight.

[TwilightsCall]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Shouldn't Gilgamesh be weaker after his master died?

He has a physical body now, so he doesn't need an anchor in the physical world like most Servants, and he never drew mana from Kirei (at least not since 10 or so years ago) according to Fate route, so there's no real disadvantage for him being created.

In fact, it gives him a little more freedom, as IIRC Gil and Kirei had different goals for the Grail. With Kirei dead, Gil doesn't have to worry about indulging Kirei's wish.

And even supposing he did need Kirei for either mana or anchoring purposes, he has Independant Action of such a high level he virtually doesn't need a master. With the amount of time left in the story, he would likely have next to no difficulty even if he were to just coast to the end on reserves.

[erneiz_hyde]

I'm not sure if I should post this here or the comparison thread, but since the conversation is here...

Originally Posted by Levani

Archer & Shirou fight scene was never about a physical fight.

Yes, but still, I don't know exactly why, but even comparing it to the VN it didn't felt quite as grandiose. "this ideal is not mistaken!" part was the strongest point of the whole fight, and yet it didn't reverberate through me enough here. That scene is the thing that made me admire the whole concept and beauty of the position between realistic pragmatism and egoistic idealism. I was really looking forward to it. I really wonder why it didn't strike me as deep as back then.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

It is a considerable retcon in HF though, because it has a direct effect on Shirou's and Sakura's "level" of relationship and even though it seems strange, the sex scenes had both important character exposition and character development, things you can NOT replicate with "bloodsucking".

In UBW it's quite a bit different. It does not really matter that much, aside from the obvious retcon that in RN Rin loses her Magic Crest, while in the original she doesn't.

The only thing that they can loop around that is that Ufo animate what Rin did in the Heaven's Feel route: Only transferring "parts" of her Magic Crest on Shirou. I'm trying to find the RN version of that scene, since someone stated that was happened (or not).

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I'm not sure if I should post this here or the comparison thread, but since the conversation is here...



Yes, but still, I don't know exactly why, but even comparing it to the VN it didn't felt quite as grandiose. "this ideal is not mistaken!" part was the strongest point of the whole fight, and yet it didn't reverberate through me enough here. That scene is the thing that made me admire the whole concept and beauty of the position between realistic pragmatism and egoistic idealism. I was really looking forward to it. I really wonder why it didn't strike me as deep as back then.

I think the reason is that in the VN, there were many (grandiose) details to describe that scene (which lead to readers to be really imaginative about it); which might not transition well if made in animated format.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

I think the reason is that in the VN, there were many (grandiose) details to describe that scene (which lead to readers to be really imaginative about it); which might not transition well if made in animated format.

It also has to be watched at least straight after EP19 and EP20 (or even better the whole series in a "marathon" manner), which greatly improves the impression it gives. A problem the VN never had, unless you made a break in-between.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Because kisses are super intense and erotic.

Kissing match with Rin...... I haven't thought.

Originally Posted by Moekou

Preview of next episode:

Spoiler for Possible Next Episode Spoilers:

Eyes. Banishment this eyes. Lancer, Gae Bolg the eyes forever.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Kissing match with Rin...... I haven't thought.

Jackhammer part II.

[nero12]

I dont know if you guys noticed but when I was rewatching that scene where Shirou screams his dream isnt mistaken and EMIYA starts playing in the background, with every step shirou takes and those bluish waves appear, the rust on the nearby swords stuck in the ground gets removed and become clean as new!!
These kinds of detail is why I actually love Ufotable!