F/SN UBW TV - Episode 20 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Haak]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

I liked when Archer explained a bit about how Shirou is tapping into the experiences of the weapons he's tracing.

iirc, this info is just stuff nasu mentioned in Q&As and it was never really addressed directly in the VNs. could be wrong though.

It's in the visual novel for sure. I don't know if it's in the UBW route but it was used in a big way in the HF route where Shirou defeats Dark Berserker with Nine Lives Blade Works.

[watisit]

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

I'm not sure why she didn't use her Command Spells (if she was able to). When she was awake, the scene in the VN only stated that the ropes that binded her were magic-resistant; along with the fact Rin felt that her magic reserves (or something related to her prana) were completely messed up (maybe Archer did something similar to how he healed Shirou, along with how he knocked Rin unconscious at the church).

She wasted one making Archer obey her. She used a second to keep Archer from killing Shirou after Ryudouji temple. She can't use her third or the contract will be severed.

[GDB]

Contract doesn't sever, you just lose all means of controlling the Servant. Case in point: Kuzuki doesn't have any Command Seals, yet he's Caster's Master. Waver used up all his Command Seals, yet he was still Rider's Master.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by GDB

Contract doesn't sever, you just lose all means of controlling the Servant. Case in point: Kuzuki doesn't have any Command Seals, yet he's Caster's Master. Waver used up all his Command Seals, yet he was still Rider's Master.

How did Kuzuki use a Command Spell in that Bad End in UBW? I always asked myself that, even though hollow ataraxia says he doesn't have any.

[watisit]

Originally Posted by GDB

Contract doesn't sever, you just lose all means of controlling the Servant. Case in point: Kuzuki doesn't have any Command Seals, yet he's Caster's Master. Waver used up all his Command Seals, yet he was still Rider's Master.

Caster has her own mana sources. Rider was under the command seal to not be defeated until he conquered the world, granting him overwhelming mana.

Admittedly both are following their masters of their own free will, but neither were drawing mana from their Masters anymore.

Originally Posted by Lorhand

How did Kuzuki use a Command Spell in that Bad End in UBW? I always asked myself that, even though hollow ataraxia says he doesn't have any.

Which end was that?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

How did Kuzuki use a Command Spell in that Bad End in UBW? I always asked myself that, even though hollow ataraxia says he doesn't have any.

Pretty sure he just gave Caster an order and she obeyed, rather than it being because of a Command Seal.

Originally Posted by watisit

Caster has her own mana sources. Rider was under the command seal to not be defeated until he conquered the world, granting him overwhelming mana.

Admittedly both are following their masters of their own free will, but neither were drawing mana from their Masters anymore.

Source? Because even if they weren't drawing mana, it doesn't mean their contracts were severed. Hell, Rider NEVER drew mana from Waver until after Lancer and Caster died. Doesn't mean his contract was severed during that time.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by GDB

Pretty sure he just gave Caster an order and she obeyed, rather than it being because of a Command Seal.

I don't think so.

"Caster. This makes three against three. You should have no complaints. Get Saber."

Kuzuki uses his Command Spell to order Caster.

"Wha"
…Saber's bindings are released.
The golden-haired girl falls powerlessly
to the ground and...

And GDB is right, even if you have already used all three Command Spells, the contract must be manually severed. Kirei makes that pretty clear in FSN's first Bad End.

[Levani]

Maybe a translation screw up? Can you give me JPN line?

[GDB]

I don't have the JPN line, but upon googling it seems to either be a translation mistake or was fixed in Realta Nua.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Haak

It's in the visual novel for sure. I don't know if it's in the UBW route but it was used in a big way in the HF route where Shirou defeats Dark Berserker with Nine Lives Blade Works.

The lines that Archer made when it concerns the leaked experience was also lines he said in the UBW route.

[MagicaLideaL]

Before reading some of the explanation provided by LN readers, I was very determined to think that Emiya has all if not some of his screw loose in his freaking head. How the heck could you still try to pursue a path which is confirmed to be hell. To be honest, not only am I in total disagreement but ultra furious as well with his decision despite all that happened.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by MagicaLideaL

Before reading some of the explanation provided by LN readers, I was very determined to think that Emiya has all if not some of his screw loose in his freaking head.

Well... yes, that's the point. He lost everything when the previous Grail burned down his home and family. The only thing he could hold onto at such a young age was Kiritsugu and his ideals, and he wasn't exactly a normal, healthy person either.

[Gaulek]

Originally Posted by MagicaLideaL

Before reading some of the explanation provided by LN readers, I was very determined to think that Emiya has all if not some of his screw loose in his freaking head. How the heck could you still try to pursue a path which is confirmed to be hell. To be honest, not only am I in total disagreement but ultra furious as well with his decision despite all that happened.

He know that he can't save everybody,but he know too the beauty of the ideal and the worthiness of his cause, even if it will be hell.
But he will have no regret, he will try and be happy with the result he will have.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by watisit

Admittedly both are following their masters of their own free will, but neither were drawing mana from their Masters anymore.

That is wrong.

Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:

Sakura used up all her command spells, yet I didn't see any symptoms of Medusa having any problems due to "being masterless". In short their contract existed, even when Sakura was already completely corrupted by Angra Manyuu.

[Dengar]

The command seal is nothing but a "proof of contract". Lack of one doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means there is no longer proof of it.

The reason people stress that you shouldn't use it up is

1) They can be used to make servants do things they don't want to do
2) They can be used to make servants do things they can't do
3) They can be used as a kind of failsafe to prevent the servant from turning on their master
4) There's only 3 of them

#3 is especially important since master and servant might not actually always get along.

[Jaden]

IIRC in the first wars, masters always made sure to keep the last seal until the end, so they could order their servants to commit suicide and complete the grail. But there's no rule against using them all up.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Raviel

I think this episode plus Rider's advice to her in F/Z has finally made the lesson stick in Saber's mind

It's just nice to know she's not losing out on any of this.

Originally Posted by MagicaLideaL

Before reading some of the explanation provided by LN readers, I was very determined to think that Emiya has all if not some of his screw loose in his freaking head. How the heck could you still try to pursue a path which is confirmed to be hell. To be honest, not only am I in total disagreement but ultra furious as well with his decision despite all that happened.

I felt the same way and I kinda still do, but motivations for choosing a career can be ultimately divided into 2 categories:

1. Expecting a certain result.
2. Acting on principles and ideals.

Shirou's case is the latter. It's about fighting the good fight and doing everything he possibly can. It'd be nice if he ended up in a good place, but it doesn't matter in the end as long as he did everything he could to live by his ideals.

[bhl88]

I saw: 'Just because you're (factually) correct doesn't mean that you're (morally) right."

Maybe Archer would get a flashback as he gets stabbed.

[DragoonKain3]

I actually snickered at the 'Even if you're correct, you aren't right' translation. Damn, that reminded me so much of the old meme that I can't help but think that it was intentional.

I mean, they could've reworded it to something like:

Even if your words ring true...
what you say is still not right!

And now you don't have understandings, as 'not right' is more often read as 'not morally right' rather than 'not correct' (because you know, people would rather use 'wrong' or 'incorrect' in the latter case). But no... they just had to go with something that can be taken out of context.

Case in point, my brother just happened to see that line and he was 'WTF was that?' XD

Originally Posted by iamandragon

Illya route CONFIRMED

It's kinda weird that because Archer was shown to be REALLY affected by Illya in Deen's adaptation, once I did UBW route I always thought that if Archer wasn't from Fate route, he definitely would've been from Illya route. You know, the route that they had to cut out because they didn't have time or budget or something.

[GDB]

Of course it was intentional. These are the same idiots that brought us "The archer class really is made up of archers", instead of anything that actually came close to a proper translation of that line. At least this time the line still made sense even without super specific context.