Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Q&A/Discussion about Character Powers

[SoboSobo]

Originally Posted by pampz21

S rank=Strategic magic
A rank=Tactical magic

don`t think that's accurate strategic magicians are those who can use spells that have more power then a strategic nuclear warhead.Like tatsuya MB that created a 20 megaton explosion.
Rank a mages are not tactical, one can use healing magic or support magic and still be a A-rang magician tactical implies combat magic.
A rank magician in terms of combat strength is some what equal to a battalion of soldiers and of a strategic mage is greater then strategic nuclear warhead(which is a lot) besides strategic magicians are a rank themself including tatsuya while using his own magic.

[Lazy cat]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

You do know that S rank doesn't exist, right? The strongest spells known are considered A rank. A rank is the top and there are many A rank magicians.

Originally Posted by pampz21

S rank=Strategic magic
A rank=Tactical magic

i am pretty sure Lu Gonghu was a S-rank magiciam, however him wasn't a strategic class

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Lazy cat

i am pretty sure Lu Gonghu was a S-rank magiciam, however him wasn't a strategic class

Oh, you are right so I will correct myself. There are S-rank magicians but no S rank spells, excepted maybe the magic nukes but no spell has been labeled as S-rank yet.

[IceHism]

If Lu Gonghu is an s-class, it makes me wonder what level Tatsuya's friends are and how far ahead of the curve Miyuki and Lina are. If the whole 10 master clans are all S-class, that would be pretty scary. Though i'm not sure if we're talking about magic power or combat ability in this(otherwise i would include Tatsuya with Miyuki + lina but he is only a c-rank magician ).

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I don't remember any such description given in the novel. Tatsuya gave a long explanation in v2 about his birth magic Decomposition, describing his ability to disassemble magic and activation sequences as an additional side effect of that magic. He then describes the 2 separate skills of erasing objects and disassembling information bodies as the single ability 'to directly interfere with the design information' that he was born with.

The fact that others may be be able to use it does not mean it is not part of his innate magic. Innate magic just means he's better at it than everyone else due inborn talent.

Vital to casting magic, no -according to the novel only the mind is. Vital to life, most likely, but nothing's yet been confirmed in the novel. With the existence of cross-dimensional, magic-using, wandering body-less spirits that Tatsuya describes as 'independent psion information bodies that originated from the human psyche', body organs vital to life or magic become unclear.

Tatsuya's magic works more like a time machine on physical failure, rather than simple resuscitation. And whether its guaranteed or not is besides the point. Tatsuya stated what his ability could achieve in the face reviving a person who has brain failure. And since in the novel we've seen that a brain isn't vital for using magic only the pushion information body that is the mind, it leaves open the possibility.

It says it right here.

As long as I can remember, as well as from what I’ve been told, aside from the non-systematic anti-magic ‘Gram Dispersion’, I have never seen him use any high level magic.

His specialization in Decomposition magic may help him use Gram Dispersion better than anyone else, but he wouldn't be able to use it if it weren't for Elemental Sight.

It only said that it was a mental activity and not restricted to a specific portion of the brain. For some reason, I can't seem to find that quote. I ran a search using "brain" on every volume, but nothing came up.

We do not know for a fact that the pushion information body is capable of casting magic without a physical body. We know that it is related to magic. We know that parasites can use magic, but they are pushion information bodies that hypothetically formed from pushion waves given off by people and lied dormant until the spill of energy from the black hole experiment activated them, which gave them the ability to interact in the physical world. So they were only able to use magic after the energy spill.

Besides, his Regrowth was proven to not affect the soul, or in this case the pushion information body. If he couldn't save Honami when she was still alive and had a body, there's no guarantee that he could revive himself without one. In other words, there is something like a spirit, not necessarily the brain, that ties the body and soul together. Honami's case proved that Regrowth did not apply to the spirit.

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

I mean what actually gives a spell its destructive power? Is it the psions that a magician have?By pumping more psions into a spell makes it more powerful?

If you're referring to the degree of change, you're talking about interference strength. It determines whether a magician can heat an object to a 100 degrees or a 1000 degrees.

[Lazy cat]

Originally Posted by IceHism

If Lu Gonghu is an s-class, it makes me wonder what level Tatsuya's friends are and how far ahead of the curve Miyuki and Lina are. If the whole 10 master clans are all S-class, that would be pretty scary. Though i'm not sure if we're talking about magic power or combat ability in this(otherwise i would include Tatsuya with Miyuki + lina but he is only a c-rank magician ).

well for the yotsuba view point he isn't even a magician, besides he is a BS magician so call him C-rank is only regarding his non-classified magics.

Spoiler for vol13:

but anyway i don't think all the ten master clans member are S-rank the head of the kudou for exemple is said to have low magical power

If you're referring to the degree of change, you're talking about interference strength. It determines whether a magician can heat an object to a 100 degrees or a 1000 degrees.

wouldn't that be the scale of the magic? now i am confused

[kazakiri]

Originally Posted by BW95

If you're referring to the degree of change, you're talking about interference strength. It determines whether a magician can heat an object to a 100 degrees or a 1000 degrees.

From Volume 7:
"The effects of magic are not eternal because the restorative powers of Eidos are at work. The restorative power of the Eidos tries to revert itself to before any external alterations occurred." - Miyuki

From Volume 3:
"Leo, magic is an ability used to 'deftly deceive the world', remember that." - Tatsuya

"Phenomena Rewriting Ability" is probably what you mean.

"Invocation Speed" - Go figure...

"Interference strength" - phenomena rewriting priority?

"Multi-Variable Quantitative Processing Speed" - Speed at which one simultaneously processes multiple variables?

"Calculation Scale" - Calculating how many processes in order to achieve a magic?

"Scale of Magic Sequence" - How many variables one can process in a single cast?

"Leo, magic is an ability used to 'deftly deceive the world', remember that." - Tatsuya

"Do you know what the heart of magic is? Lies." - Tsuchimikado Yakou

Academy City - Personal Reality (Observe and analyze reality through the use of special, intentionally warped facilities of calculation and judgement. In response to that effect the microscopic world fluctuates unnaturally which gives rise to new kind of phenomenon)

Espers and Yakou seem to fit in just fine in this world..

[BW95]

Originally Posted by kazakiri

"Phenomena Rewriting Ability" is probably what you mean.

"Invocation Speed" - Go figure...

"Interference strength" - phenomena rewriting priority?

"Multi-Variable Quantitative Processing Speed" - Speed at which one simultaneously processes multiple variables?

"Calculation Scale" - Calculating how many processes in order to achieve a magic?

"Scale of Magic Sequence" - How many variables one can process in a single cast?



Espers and Yakou seem to fit in just fine in this world..

I was thinking the same thing about Yakou. In that case, I think the Yotsuba were right to say Tatsuya's not a magician. He doesn't wraps lies around the truth like magicians. He dictates truth. His magic isn't magic. It's a frickin' miracle.

[kazakiri]

Originally Posted by BW95

I was thinking the same thing about Yakou. In that case, I think the Yotsuba were right to say Tatsuya's not* a magician. He doesn't wraps lies around the truth like magicians. He dictates truth. His magic isn't magic. It's a frickin' miracle.

Fixed that for you. Also no "Taizan Fukun" for Tatsuya, though I'm pretty sure that Mikihiko would know more about it than I do... Wonder If they have any Tsuchimikados in Mahouka... Index has a blond one... If anything it would be interesting to see a rival to the Yoshida house... A philosophical difference between "Ancient Magic bloodlines" based around the similar magic, maybe? Kidnap Mizuki Arc anyone?

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by BW95

It says it right here.
....
His specialization in Decomposition magic may help him use Gram Dispersion better than anyone else, but he wouldn't be able to use it if it weren't for Elemental Sight.

Yes I agree, but this is separate to my point. Tatsuya actually states his ability for disassembling magic sequences and his ability to use Gram Dispersion is part of his Decomposition magic in v2 and v4. My point is the idea that Tatsuya's ability to use Gram Dispersion is unrelated to his innate decomposition magic runs counter to Tatsuya's statements.

The fact that its non systematic, or that Elemental sight is also required, or that other magicians may also be able to use the high level counter magic or that Miyuki has only ever seen him use Gram Dispersion and was unaware of his innate ability for Decomposition, does not mean it is not part of his Decomposition magic. Tatsuya said it is, so its means people never knew a combination of Elemental sight and innate talent for decomposition magic would allow for practical use of Gram Dispersion.

Originally Posted by BW95

It only said that it was a mental activity and not restricted to a specific portion of the brain. For some reason, I can't seem to find that quote. I ran a search using "brain" on every volume, but nothing came up.

I believe the quote below is what you might have been referring to. But keep in mind that one of the Japanese words used here for mental function is seishin(精神), which is a concept that the mind, will, spirit and soul is all one single incorporeal mental body. Its why outer-systematic magic, like Miyuki's, Miya's and Genzou's, is described in v1 as a category of magic that manipulates the spirit.
v8c14. - 'The Magic Operation Area is not a physical area in the cerebrum, but rather is a direct mental function.
Adding an artificial Magic Operation Area would therefore entail altering the mental structure.'

Originally Posted by BW95

We do not know for a fact that the pushion information body is capable of casting magic without a physical body. We know that it is related to magic. We know that parasites can use magic, but they are pushion information bodies that hypothetically formed from pushion waves given off by people and lied dormant until the spill of energy from the black hole experiment activated them, which gave them the ability to interact in the physical world. So they were only able to use magic after the energy spill.

Both vamps and spirits are stated in v9 and v10 as most likely to be beings from another dimension. We do know for a fact that pushion information bodies use magic without a body. That's what spirits are, and the vamps and the spirits Mikihiko uses in his branch of magic have used magic without a body in the novel. The mind is the only thing mentioned as vital for magic since its where the mca is located, and the mind itself is described as most likely being a pushion information body just like any vamp or spirit. With Yakumo's explanation in v9 and Tatsuya's pondering in v10, their conclusion was never that vamps were formed from 'pushion waves' given off by people that lied dormant, but that they were broken off portions from the human mind, which exists in an alternate dimension.

Originally Posted by BW95

Besides, his Regrowth was proven to not affect the soul, or in this case the pushion information body. If he couldn't save Honami when she was still alive and had a body, there's no guarantee that he could revive himself without one. In other words, there is something like a spirit, not necessarily the brain, that ties the body and soul together. Honami's case proved that Regrowth did not apply to the spirit.

I don't believe Honami's case has any relevance to the topic since we are talking about about reviving a person with brain damage who may still be alive, not people who are dead already due to overusing their magic. There is no need to question the former, since Tatsuya already confirmed his magic has the possibility to do so in v8, and there was originally never any discussion about the latter.

[SoboSobo]

Originally Posted by IceHism

If Lu Gonghu is an s-class, it makes me wonder what level Tatsuya's friends are and how far ahead of the curve Miyuki and Lina are. If the whole 10 master clans are all S-class, that would be pretty scary. Though i'm not sure if we're talking about magic power or combat ability in this(otherwise i would include Tatsuya with Miyuki + lina but he is only a c-rank magician ).

he is only a c-rank magician when his using systematic magic(Four Great Systems and Eight Major Types) but when hi is using decomposition , well who knows what his rank is probably s rank as well.

Its said in the novel that even normal magicians that can use systematic magic to their liking also have higher affinity to a specific system like miyuki she can use Movement and Oscillation/Vibration magic(freezing and movement speed) to a higher degree(a rank spells) but we haven`t seen her or even stated somewhere that she can use the other 3 systems to the same extent and its the same for the rest of the magicians they excel in a single magic system and they build their spells around that.
Decomposition magic is considered the most difficult magic in existence, if the magic community knew that he had the ability to use decomposition magic to the extent of subatomic level i`m pretty sure he won`t be labeled c-rank anymore.
As for Gram Dispersion on itself its a non-systematic magic and its not related to his decomposition magic, as is said in the novel that other powerful magicians were able to use that and they didn't have decomposition.
The confusion about this spell came from the explanation in the novel where it says "This magic takes a Magic Sequence and decomposes it into a group of Psion particles without a meaningful structure" the word decompose led to that belief, the word mean it breaks down the magic sequence back into the psion that it came from, if this was a decomposition spell the spell would've been completely erased at the eidos level.
There is also a possibility that tatsuya gram dispersion to be a variant of the original and instead of breaking down the spell to the psion level he actually incorporates decomposition magic in it, to completely erase the spell.
Until stated otherwise the first explanation still stands. All we know its that tatsuya Gram Dispersion is extremely powerful being able to destroy to full power a rank spells at once(when he stoped lina vs miyuki battle and the two were stuned).
Also on another note didn't saw this mention around, but tatsuya also have are-of-effect decomposition magic that acts like a Zone Interference but a lot more powerful(as seen in his fight with lina spells from different direction had no effect whatsoever or when he used gram dispersion in lina/miyuki fight the effects of the spells didn't affect him a bit even without any sort of defensive spells active).

Off topic : i think the way author explains magic power in the novel is a little off, when i say magic power i think at spell strength and at the spell effects and to put it in a video game term how much damage it does, in the novel magic power sounds more like skill then actual power in the true sense of the word.

As an example let take a lighting bold spell...... it has scale magic sequences(magic tolerance), it has interference strength(strength of rewriting Eidos) and has casting speed(speed of magic design).
But to create a lighting spell u have a set number of magic sequences(a stated that spells have a set number of steps to obtain the desired effect) , you have a set number of interference strength i mean by set number that a macigian needs to change the eidos a certain level to create the lighting effect if the change is to small or to big it wont be a lighting.What i wonder by this is what variable in this changes the power output of the spell meaning whats variable its different between a lighting that stuns a human and one that completely carbonizes the human.

[Lazy cat]

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

he is only a c-rank magician when his using systematic magic(Four Great Systems and Eight Major Types) but when hi is using decomposition , well who knows what his rank is probably s rank as well.

Its said in the novel that even normal magicians that can use systematic magic to their liking also have higher affinity to a specific system like miyuki she can use Movement and Oscillation/Vibration magic(freezing and movement speed) to a higher degree(a rank spells) but we haven`t seen her or even stated somewhere that she can use the other 3 systems to the same extent and its the same for the rest of the magicians they excel in a single magic system and they build their spells around that.
Decomposition magic is considered the most difficult magic in existence, if the magic community knew that he had the ability to use decomposition magic to the extent of subatomic level i`m pretty sure he won`t be labeled c-rank anymore.
As for Gram Dispersion on itself its a non-systematic magic and its not related to his decomposition magic, as is said in the novel that other powerful magicians were able to use that and they didn't have decomposition.
The confusion about this spell came from the explanation in the novel where it says "This magic takes a Magic Sequence and decomposes it into a group of Psion particles without a meaningful structure" the word decompose led to that belief, the word mean it breaks down the magic sequence back into the psion that it came from, if this was a decomposition spell the spell would've been completely erased at the eidos level.
There is also a possibility that tatsuya gram dispersion to be a variant of the original and instead of breaking down the spell to the psion level he actually incorporates decomposition magic in it, to completely erase the spell.
Until stated otherwise the first explanation still stands. All we know its that tatsuya Gram Dispersion is extremely powerful being able to destroy to full power a rank spells at once(when he stoped lina vs miyuki battle and the two were stuned).
Also on another note didn't saw this mention around, but tatsuya also have are-of-effect decomposition magic that acts like a Zone Interference but a lot more powerful(as seen in his fight with lina spells from different direction had no effect whatsoever or when he used gram dispersion in lina/miyuki fight the effects of the spells didn't affect him a bit even without any sort of defensive spells active).

Off topic : i think the way author explains magic power in the novel is a little off, when i say magic power i think at spell strength and at the spell effects and to put it in a video game term how much damage it does, in the novel magic power sounds more like skill then actual power in the true sense of the word.

As an example let take a lighting bold spell...... it has scale magic sequences(magic tolerance), it has interference strength(strength of rewriting Eidos) and has casting speed(speed of magic design).
But to create a lighting spell u have a set number of magic sequences(a stated that spells have a set number of steps to obtain the desired effect) , you have a set number of interference strength i mean by set number that a macigian needs to change the eidos a certain level to create the lighting effect if the change is to small or to big it wont be a lighting.What i wonder by this is what variable in this changes the power output of the spell meaning whats variable its different between a lighting that stuns a human and one that completely carbonizes the human.

i think magic power relates to the sum of all the magic related aspects istead of the power of the magic. the litning is caused by a eletric current of great intensity that ionize the air in it's percurse, to make a stronger ligtning you don't have to use more interference strengh just augment the intensity of the eletric current, wich probably varies acording to the ability of the magic in rewriting phenomena scale.
i agree with kazakiri about inteference strengh being about priority rather than the force of the spell
sorry for the bad gramar i am a little haste today

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

he is only a c-rank magician when his using systematic magic(Four Great Systems and Eight Major Types) but when hi is using decomposition , well who knows what his rank is probably s rank as well.Decomposition magic is considered the most difficult magic in existence, if the magic community knew that he had the ability to use decomposition magic to the extent of subatomic level i`m pretty sure he won`t be labeled c-rank anymore.

I believe it would be the same, since although he has unique skills and already has 3 different jobs due to each of his outstanding talents, the job of an internationally ranked professional magician is not based solely on their ability to obliterate matter, destroy fleets or counter magic. You have to remember the vocation of a professional magician- i.e. a Magic Technician, is the ability to skillfully wield modern magic. Skillful Magic technicians are certainly important to the military, but that is not their only job. And despite the social hierarchy among the magician community based on ability, Magicians are stated to be in popular demand by general society, so even if their ranks are low their are many jobs for them to chose from, and the military and government accept anyone with talent like Haruka and Kazuma. They are all treated the same in the eyes of the public, people with special talents.

But still profession-wise, Tatsuya's sort of like a repair man who is very good at repairing military equipment or emergency hospital equipment, but slow and poor at repairing the more common consumer equipment. He is still highly sought for his talent, but sub par with the more common easy and more common complex stuff.

Spoiler for A different and longer technician comparison:

If one were to try and compare it to someone who is a professional pilot, I believe it would be something like Tatsuya is only able to operate the most powerful military aircraft or only aircraft with the best built-in emergency care equipment. Although he can instantly understand the ins and outs, nuances, makeup and mechanics of any aircraft or even another pilot's flying skills, he is only barely able to operate more common aircraft himself and is very slow during operation, unless he uses specialist aviation computer equipment that only improve a small number of basic flight operations. He has a flash piloting skill that allows him to pilot the more common planes quickly and without using the controls, but it only works for simple smaller common planes. If used in combat, this technique is still weak against better pilots when used to directly shower fire on them.

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

Its said in the novel that even normal magicians that can use systematic magic to their liking also have higher affinity to a specific system like miyuki she can use Movement and Oscillation/Vibration magic(freezing and movement speed) to a higher degree(a rank spells) but we haven`t seen her or even stated somewhere that she can use the other 3 systems to the same extent and its the same for the rest of the magicians they excel in a single magic system and they build their spells around that.

Umm... yes we have seen her do so and we have seen such statements-

Spoiler for Quotes:

v9 c7 'This was something any magician could do at varying levels, and anything a magician could do Miyuki could do at the highest level.'

Fom v4. 'While it has been said that magic has become more constrained due to a limited number of combinations, for someone to be able to fight Miyuki to a standstill at the high school level surprised Tatsuya to no end.'- leaping magic battle(weight magic)

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

As for Gram Dispersion on itself its a non-systematic magic and its not related to his decomposition magic, as is said in the novel that other powerful magicians were able to use that and they didn't have decomposition.

Tatsuya states in the novel its related to his decomposition magic. in v1, v4 and v12,- Tatsuya directed psions into his CAD. He was not pretending to use his CAD but actually using the CAD for Decomposition Magic. The magic he chose was “Gram Dispersal”.'- Nothing in the novel states there are no other magicians who could use decomposition magic, only that it is magic of the highest level. Like any other high level magic it depends on the individual's innate talent for it. Practical use of Gram Dispersion is stated in v4 as still generally thought of as impossible, and my interpretation of this comes down to, no one with the innate talent to be able to use it fast enough has ever been publicly announced.

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

The confusion about this spell came from the explanation in the novel where it says "This magic takes a Magic Sequence and decomposes it into a group of Psion particles without a meaningful structure" the word decompose led to that belief, the word mean it breaks down the magic sequence back into the psion that it came from, if this was a decomposition spell the spell would've been completely erased at the eidos level.

Tatsuya's magic has never been described as being able to actually erase eidos. It erases designs, decomposes structures, breaks things down into their most basic elements.
From v12. 'Tatsuya’s “Decomposition” could destroy designs. Although he was unable to destroy formless objects, he could deconstruct anything with a form even if it was the Eidos.'

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

Also on another note didn't saw this mention around, but tatsuya also have are-of-effect decomposition magic that acts like a Zone Interference but a lot more powerful(as seen in his fight with lina spells from different direction had no effect whatsoever or when he used gram dispersion in lina/miyuki fight the effects of the spells didn't affect him a bit even without any sort of defensive spells active).

That's incorrect.

Spoiler for V9 Quote:

The cold and hot air rapidly mixed, creating a gale which would cause both frostbite and burns. Bracing himself for the severe pain he was sure was incoming, the storm of sheer cold and scorching heat was blocked right before him by an invisible wall.
"Onii-sama! That was far too reckless!"
Her face pale, Miyuki came running up.
Stunned, Lina could only stare.
For those two, protecting themselves from the thermal aftermath was a piece of cake regardless of fatigue. However, that sort of thing was impossible for Tatsuya. It was at times like these that Tatsuya, who looked with indifference on his own talents, was somewhat envious of the skills of ordinary magicians.

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

Off topic : i think the way author explains magic power in the novel is a little off, when i say magic power i think at spell strength and at the spell effects and to put it in a video game term how much damage it does, in the novel magic power sounds more like skill then actual power in the true sense of the word.

The author hasn't really given details on what determines rank damage for combat spells yet, only for magician rank assessment. Maybe its determined by how much damage the human body or an object can sustain from the attack. Possibly something like Rank A are lethal, Rank C non-lethal but can immobilize.

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

As an example let take a lighting bold spell...... it has scale magic sequences(magic tolerance), it has interference strength(strength of rewriting Eidos) and has casting speed(speed of magic design).
But to create a lighting spell u have a set number of magic sequences(a stated that spells have a set number of steps to obtain the desired effect) , you have a set number of interference strength i mean by set number that a macigian needs to change the eidos a certain level to create the lighting effect if the change is to small or to big it wont be a lighting.What i wonder by this is what variable in this changes the power output of the spell meaning whats variable its different between a lighting that stuns a human and one that completely carbonizes the human.

Since I don't think the design of the magic sequence is what determines a combat magic's rank but rather how lethal it is, I would assume it all depends on the selected magic's effect. Scale, interference and speed really all relate to the magicians ability to use a spell effectively rather than how effective the spell itself is. Alot of similar based magics(like Ichijou's Rupture and Kyokan Jigoku) have different names due to slight changes in real world variables of strength or length. My opinion is that the spells seem to be very specific in their variables and would likely always have the same rank, unless tweaked by a talented researcher or engineer who can invent their own magic.

[SoboSobo]

Originally Posted by Guest2

The cold and hot air rapidly mixed, creating a gale which would cause both frostbite and burns. Bracing himself for the severe pain he was sure was incoming, the storm of sheer cold and scorching heat was blocked right before him by an invisible wall.
"Onii-sama! That was far too reckless!"
Her face pale, Miyuki came running up.
Stunned, Lina could only stare.
For those two, protecting themselves from the thermal aftermath was a piece of cake regardless of fatigue. However, that sort of thing was impossible for Tatsuya. It was at times like these that Tatsuya, who looked with indifference on his own talents, was somewhat envious of the skills of ordinary magicians.

my mistake i`m still at volume 10 he didn`t learn area of effect decomposition until volume 12. (did a little search without reading to many spoilers)

thx for not sharing any spoilers.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Spoiler for Quotes:

v9 c7 'This was something any magician could do at varying levels, and anything a magician could do Miyuki could do at the highest level.'

I already said this during my discussion with Riddam but Miyuki is not at the highest level at everything. Even by analyzing this quote words by words, we know that BS magicians can't do everything so Miyuki is not better than anyone at everything.

She is unbeatable at: freezing magic and spells with large radius. These 2 are her specialty she may be good in other categories but she is not the best. For example her activation speed is not comparable to Lina and she can't deal with complex magic as much as Honoka.

Originally Posted by SoboSobo

my mistake i`m still at volume 10 he didn`t learn area of effect decomposition until volume 12. (did a little search without reading to many spoilers)

thx for not sharing any spoilers.

Tatsuya's only AOE decomposition spell is Material Burst. He can only snipe a lot of person simultaneously with bullets and learnt Far Strike, another Counter Magic. Remember that he is BS.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I already said this during my discussion with Riddam but Miyuki is not at the highest level at everything. Even by analyzing this quote words by words, we know that BS magicians can't do everything so Miyuki is not better than anyone at everything.

I think your confusing the topic a little. The point is the novel indicates Miyuki's excellent talent with every system of magic including those outside vibration. Whether or not she could actually beat other people like herself; those that hold powerful innate talent or superb skill for a certain magic field, is irrelevant. She is stated to have the required raw power, but this is not the only factor in making a complex spell successful.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Tatsuya's only AOE decomposition spell is Material Burst. He can only snipe a lot of person simultaneously with bullets and learnt Far Strike, another Counter Magic. Remember that he is BS.

Tatsuya actually indicates he can use his Decomposition magic in some sort of area defensive effect in v12c1.

[SoboSobo]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I think your confusing the topic a little. The point is the novel indicates Miyuki's excellent talent with every system of magic including those outside vibration. Whether or not she could actually beat other people like herself; those that hold powerful innate talent or superb skill for a certain magic field, is irrelevant. She is stated to have the required raw power, but this is not the only factor in making a complex spell successful.



Tatsuya actually indicates he can use his Decomposition magic in some sort of area defensive effect in v12c1.

i only read a few passages of that and yes he uses decomposition as an aoe effect with him at center to protect himself. I will read in detail when i reach the volume twelve so no more spoilers pretty pls

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I think your confusing the topic a little. The point is the novel indicates Miyuki's excellent talent with every system of magic including those outside vibration. Whether or not she could actually beat other people like herself; those that hold powerful innate talent or superb skill for a certain magic field, is irrelevant. She is stated to have the required raw power, but this is not the only factor in making a complex spell successful.

Yeah, I just wanted to say that highest level isn't the maximum in this case.

Tatsuya actually indicates he can use his Decomposition magic in some sort of area defensive effect in v12c1.

You are right, but I wonder how it works.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Yes I agree, but this is separate to my point. Tatsuya actually states his ability for disassembling magic sequences and his ability to use Gram Dispersion is part of his Decomposition magic in v2 and v4. My point is the idea that Tatsuya's ability to use Gram Dispersion is unrelated to his innate decomposition magic runs counter to Tatsuya's statements.

The fact that its non systematic, or that Elemental sight is also required, or that other magicians may also be able to use the high level counter magic or that Miyuki has only ever seen him use Gram Dispersion and was unaware of his innate ability for Decomposition, does not mean it is not part of his Decomposition magic. Tatsuya said it is, so its means people never knew a combination of Elemental sight and innate talent for decomposition magic would allow for practical use of Gram Dispersion.

Both vamps and spirits are stated in v9 and v10 as most likely to be beings from another dimension. We do know for a fact that pushion information bodies use magic without a body. That's what spirits are, and the vamps and the spirits Mikihiko uses in his branch of magic have used magic without a body in the novel. The mind is the only thing mentioned as vital for magic since its where the mca is located, and the mind itself is described as most likely being a pushion information body just like any vamp or spirit. With Yakumo's explanation in v9 and Tatsuya's pondering in v10, their conclusion was never that vamps were formed from 'pushion waves' given off by people that lied dormant, but that they were broken off portions from the human mind, which exists in an alternate dimension.

I don't believe Honami's case has any relevance to the topic since we are talking about about reviving a person with brain damage who may still be alive, not people who are dead already due to overusing their magic. There is no need to question the former, since Tatsuya already confirmed his magic has the possibility to do so in v8, and there was originally never any discussion about the latter.

Very well. Then I stick by my previous statement. Tatsuya couldn't use Gram Dispersion without Elemental Sight. When magic is classified by type, the end result is what is taken into account. You may recall the two different kinds of Evil Eye. The first one was simply a light oscillation magic, but the second one was a real outer-systematic magic. Both, however, are classified as mental interference type magic due to their purpose and result.

I meant human pushion information bodies.

Exactly. Broken off portions. Not a whole pushion informatin body. My point is that these pushion information bodies were unable to interact with the physical world, much less cast magic, until the black hole experiment activated them.

I am referring specifically to Tatsuya resurrecting himself if his head ever gets vaporized. In the case of Honami, there is no doubt Tatsuya's Regrowth fixed her body. Yet she died anyways. I don't believe for a second that her soul, or pushion information body, was actually deteriorating in any way. So I believe that the problem lied with a third element, the spirit. I'm borrowing this term from FMA where it is believed that there is something that ties the soul to the body.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Tatsuya's only AOE decomposition spell is Material Burst. He can only snipe a lot of person simultaneously with bullets and learnt Far Strike, another Counter Magic. Remember that he is BS.

Material Burst isn't AOE. It's just a single target spell in which the effect covers a large radius, but Tatsuya did say he was capable of casting Mist Dispersal as an AOE.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by BW95

Very well. Then I stick by my previous statement. Tatsuya couldn't use Gram Dispersion without Elemental Sight. When magic is classified by type, the end result is what is taken into account. You may recall the two different kinds of Evil Eye. The first one was simply a light oscillation magic, but the second one was a real outer-systematic magic. Both, however, are classified as mental interference type magic due to their purpose and result.

Both are classified as such because both manipulate the mind, which is described as a pushion information spirit body. One does so indirectly with light waves via eyesight, the other does so directly via magic particles. But the novel went into depth about Tatsuya's decomposition magic and explained that it was his innate talent for this magic that allows him, with the aid of elemental sight, to disassemble magic sequences. Its in v2c11.

Originally Posted by BW95

Exactly. Broken off portions. Not a whole pushion informatin body. My point is that these pushion information bodies were unable to interact with the physical world, much less cast magic, until the black hole experiment activated them.

Yes things were different before the experiment. They didn't become vampire-type spirits until they crossed dimensions from wherever the human mind/spirit normally resides, via the dimensional hole created during the USNA experiment. But the novel never indicates that being whole or a part makes a difference to magic use. The novel states they have the same make up as the human mind, were once part of a human mind and can use magic without a body. So since spirits and vamps are incorporeal information bodies that can use the same magic that humans can, it means a brain is not essential for using magic, since its stated to be of the same makeup and the origin of vamps spirits.

Originally Posted by BW95

I am referring specifically to Tatsuya resurrecting himself if his head ever gets vaporized. In the case of Honami, there is no doubt Tatsuya's Regrowth fixed her body. Yet she died anyways. I don't believe for a second that her soul, or pushion information body, was actually deteriorating in any way. So I believe that the problem lied with a third element, the spirit. I'm borrowing this term from FMA where it is believed that there is something that ties the soul to the body.

The human spirit, mind pushion information body and soul are treated as all the same thing in this novel. As I mentioned above earlier, the Japanese word used for mental in this novel covers this concept. And the v9 USNA scientists and Tatsuya's talk with Yakuma all center around this.

But my question is why bring up Honami when she never received any physical damage, and was already considered dead despite still being conscious and talking. The topic was about brain damage and not someone who was stated as already dying from overusing their magic.

Overall I believe that the question of whether Tatsuya can revive or not from brain damage depends on how vital the brain is to life and if any delay occurs before the state of death, and if auto restore would work in time if any such possibility existed. The answer could be a definite no, death occurs instantly. But with the novel's theories that the human mind/spirit exists in an alternate dimension, and that those human minds can cross dimensions and turn into magic wielding spirit-human parasites, makes me still wonder at such an absurd possibility of revival.