Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[Folenfant]

I honestly don't mind the fan service with Amy and her skimpy outfits in general on the whole character design/being easy on the eyes front...I mean that's not the reason that I don't care much for her character yet so much as she doesn't have a whole lot going on for her other than in terms of what she's doing in the show other than her relationship with Ledo. So far I see mild shades of Romary Stone from Gundam AGE in being defined largely by her relationship with the much more interesting male lead.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

What's the cultural significance of Carneival in Brazil? This was a festival in a similar light and that's how I think people should approach it, and simply kick back and have fun like they try to do with Ledo. In my mind, that he asked for a repeat performance afterwards symbolized that because initially he didn't pay attention. Plus by you logic of objectification we should throw out nude sculptures and paintings. Nor accusing you of meaning that but that's what it implies to me.

A huge facet of culture is entertainment and amusement. Sexy people dancing like tantalizing pieces of meat is entertaining and amusing. Omnomnom deliciousness.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

Yes well that was never my argument. It was somebody else's. You should direct your argument to the correct person! lol.

If you didn't say it then I didn't originally quote you as I did quote the original statement. I don't remember who I quoted though because I was replying back to more than one person. Maybe that was my mistake.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

What's the cultural significance of Carneival in Brazil?

Clearly you have not read through my posts. I said I have no problem with actual belly dancing (and I have seen it in person many times myself). I also said there was a sharp contrast to Amy's later dance and the earlier one of the 3 girls.

I had some issue with how the camera was purposely panning on the girls boobs and behind. This came off as objectifying to me. And as others have mentioned the room was filled with men gazing on them.

I also said that I could tolerate it (and no I don't think it is the worst thing ever) but I think it is silly to deny what it is=fanservice not a scene for us to better understand Gargantia culture.

[KrimzonStriker]

^^It was a rhetorical question, if not quite the sarcastic answer I was going for

^You didn't read my full post. This whole episode was about getting Ledo to ease up, the dancing in my view was to symbolise that turmoil in his mind along with the contentious conversation between Pinion and Bellows.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

If you didn't say it then I didn't originally quote you as I did quote the original statement. I don't remember who I quoted though because I was replying back to more than one person. Maybe that was my mistake.

It's okay. I checked out the anime you're currently following from your "MAL" page and it seems we're mostly following all the same ones this season. I look forward to more discussions.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Clearly you have not read through my posts. I said I have no problem with actual belly dancing (and I have seen it in person many times myself). I also said there was a sharp contrast to Amy's later dance and the earlier one of the 3 girls.

I had some issue with how the camera was purposely panning on the girls boobs and behind. This came off as objectifying to me. And as others have mentioned the room was filled with men.

I am also said that I could tolerate it but I think it is silly to deny what it is=fanservice not a scene for us to better understand Gargantia culture.

The panning was delicious though. I mean yeah, I would've certainly preferred if they had spent more time and resources on the fantasy, mystery, and sci-fi elements, but since they didn't, I don't have any trouble enjoying what little consolation (fan service) they are attempting to offer. It's shounen anime so they'll have to appeal to either sexuality or violence (or both), but since sexuality is probably cheaper to animate, their decision to do so makes sense from a business perspective. That being said, there are very good reasons why I prefer seinen and josei anime.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That really surprised me. Ledo said that he stopped feeling fear at the very start of this series, but seeing as how he reacted to that mutated octopus he sure didn't show that.

Let's disregard his quick reaction that could simply be conditioning, but he was sweating and breathing heavily.

I loved Pinion hiding behind the table though XD

I think the unfamiliarity of his environment's reawakened his sense of fear. He was also very jumpy when he was with Amy, but once he was in Chamber, he was, once again, calm. Even when a Hideauze appeared.

[andyjay729]

I don't know if Ledo was scared of the octopus so much as battle-ready. He's conditioned to think "tentacles=enemy=ZENMETSU", no questions asked.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

^^It was a rhetorical question, if not quite the sarcastic answer I was going for

Sorry it's the internet I can't always read people's tones correctly.

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

The panning was delicious though. I mean yeah, I would've certainly preferred if they had spent more time and resources on the fantasy, mystery, and sci-fi elements, but since they didn't, I don't have any trouble enjoying what little consolation (fan service) they are attempting to offer. It's shounen anime so they'll have to appeal to either sexuality or violence (or both), but since sexuality is probably cheaper to animate, their decision to do so makes sense from a business perspective. That being said, there are very good reasons why I prefer seinen and josei anime.

And I don't actually have any problem with people saying they enjoy it as fanservice.

But I do think the fanservice has been amped up quite a bit from what I initially thought it was going to be. I can't deny that I am disappointed by that but it is what it is.

And well I did actually think this episode was a step up from last week. But the best episodes for me so far have been 1,2, and 4.

[Kanon]

Excellent. Once again, this is the type of slice of life episodes that I love. It took the good elements of the previous episode and removed the bad ones.

The dancing was indeed a lot better than in Magi, which granted, isn't hard. It was beautiful to watch nonetheless. It was pretty sensual and tasteful in my opinion. Well, not so much the part where the guys in the room were fawning over a bunch of teenagers, but you'd get that kind of reaction anywhere. This kind of dancing is meant to be enticing after all. I was disappointed the only dancers were the three girls, however. I would loved to see Bellows dancing in that kind of outfit... fanartists are my last hope.

Good development for Ledo and Amy. They're slowly growing closer, and Ledo is apparently starting to see her as a woman. This is the perfect time to introduce some drama, which is presumably what the show is about to do going by the end of the episode. 99.7% is a pretty damn high percentage. That thing, which I agree is probably the whalesquid Bellows was talking about is definitely related to the Hideauze in some way. It's rather intriguing that it's apparently not hostile. Me thinks we're about to get some huge revelation.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There's an enormous difference from fanservices where the girls just stick their bums in absolutely improbable and awkward positions for no reason and fanservices that are actually part of the plot.
In this case the girls were performing dances that were clearly meant to show and exalt their young bodies. It's not just something done for the public behind the 4th wall, it's done for the characters in the stories, they aren't doing that for no reason.

These dances had the twofold purpose of showing yet another bit of the culture of the Gargantians and Ledo's reaction to it. It was important that Ledo at this point would be mesmerized by both yet another cultural aspect that doesn't exist in his world and the sexuality inherent in Amy's dance which is also repressed where he always lived.

This. Thank you. It fit perfectly into the narrative and had a purpose. You would lose a lot if you removed this "fanservice", which was actually much more than that. It was completely different from what we got last week. I never expected this would spark such an animated debate.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

But I do think the fanservice has been amped up quite a bit from what I initially thought it was going to be. I can't deny that I am disappointed but it is what it is.

They got a famous hentai artist to design the characters, so this wasn't unexpected. I don't think it's actually as bad as you make it out to be. I guess everybody has a different threshold. This feels like light fanservice to me.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Sorry it's the internet I can't always read people's tones correctly.

The two arrows pointing up meant that particular statement was for Apathy. My response to you came in the second statement with only one arrow and I'm curious if you see my point as to the close-up shots representing Ledo's turmoil.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Sorry it's the internet I can't always read people's tones correctly.





And I don't actually have any problem with people saying they enjoy it as fanservice.

But I do think the fanservice has been amped up quite a bit from what I initially thought it was going to be. I can't deny that I am disappointed by that but it is what it is.

And well I did actually think this episode was a step up from last week. But the best episodes for me so far have been 1,2, and 4.

Those are my "best episodes" as well. That being said, this anime season could have been better. I really wish they had gone on to continue with a S3 of Magi, Jojo, and SAO.

[joshuafaramir]

FANSERVICE DESU will never go away in whatever kind of anime your watching. It's a "put up or shut up" situation.

Anyhow, what kind of guy in their right mind wouldn't get rowdy when watching a live performance of a scantily clad and sensual dance by young ladies. Men by nature are attracted to youth... It's instinctual.

[KrimzonStriker]

I don't think you guys are looking at the scene deep enough or appreciating the context it was in, dance symbolizing a character's inner conflict and turmoil is a common enough device in my experience and I don't think you're giving the animetors enough credit here.

[Crazy'O]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

And I don't actually have any problem with people saying they enjoy it as fanservice.

But I do think the fanservice has been amped up quite a bit from what I initially thought it was going to be. I can't deny that I am disappointed by that but it is what it is.

Ok, I understand.

I think I can relate to this. Several years ago I watched a show called Kare Kano and I really liked it. But I was bothered by the implied homosexuality of a character. I realized this show wasn't really targeting my demographic. But I saw that there may be demand for that and there are girls and some men who like to be catered too also. Yes, fanservice is part of more anime but that's only because the demand is there and people actually spend money on it.

The ratio is far better on the Manga/Doujin market. But personally I've come to the conclusion that I don't complain about shows that aren't targeting my interests and accept them if I get enjoyment out of them. Thanks to this I came to like some great shows like Nana, Skip Beat or even Ouran High School Host Club.

I think it's sad that people complain about fanservice instead supporting more and different content. It's not like fanservice will disappear because there is a demand for it. But prove that there is a demand for other things aswell and we all will profit from it. I will be the last one complaining about a good anime that was not marketed for me.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Kanon

They got a famous hentai artist to design the characters, so this wasn't unexpected.

Well I personally found this information out later. But yeah I guess that should have clued me in.

I don't think it's actually as bad as you make it out to be. I guess everybody has a different threshold. This feels like light fanservice to me.

Actually I said in my initial posts it's something I can tolerate. Although like I said it wasn't the belly dancing itself but the way the camera was panning that was the issue for me. Although I do know what you mean by different thresholds.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Actually I said in my initial posts it's something I can tolerate. Although like I said it wasn't the belly dancing itself but the way the camera was panning that was the issue for me. Although I do know what you mean by different thresholds.

Anyways I was more bothered by certain posts on here than the fanservice in the episode itself if I am being frank.

Would one of those posts be me? Because I'm honestly trying to be constructive here and would like to get some opinions on my point

[Shinhwa]

That thing at the end no matter what looks something not from Earth...

Don't tell me this series will be where Hideaze attacks humans on earth and Ledo trying to kill them all or something, where Urobutcher finally comes in and gives everyone some Zetsubou and Tragedy... = =;

[DuelGundam2099]

Perhaps you need to be sent to a devoid water planet, too

What the hell will that accomplish?

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by GDB

My only problem with the belly dancing is that it's the same three girls we've seen the entire series. What, are they the only girls under 25 years old in the entire floating city?

This was also my reaction.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

It's not the belly dancing itself is the problem to me. It's the way the camera pans to the girls boobs and behind that feels objectional to me.

If, say, it had been Bellows and other older women dancing, would it have been less objectionable to you?

To me, that whole belly dancing scene was objectionable because, a) the women dancing were in fact young girls, and b) the atmosphere was more like that encountered in strip joints where the dancers will perform extra services (which makes it even more objectionable considering the age of the girls).

Of course, this is me applying my own standards to the Gargantian culture. What we learn from this episode is that not only is it okay for the men of Gargantia to view young teenage girls as overt sex symbols, they are actually encouraged to do so, and young teenage girls are encouraged to exhibit and flaunt their sexuality openly in front of men, titillating and exciting them as much as possible.

[ThereminVox]

Some more great stuff again this week for Ledo. I'm deeply invested in his development as a person at this point, and it was good to get some reminders of how far he's come from being a deeply conditioned soldier by seeing him suddenly snap back into that frame of mind. Those scars will probably never go away, even if he had nothing but peaceful days on the Gargantia ahead of him.

The first belly dancing was a clever bit of fanservice, in that it was culturally justified and was executed with real effort to portray the actual dance. It did feel kind of like cheating to put the girls in skimpy outfits again so soon after episode 5, but at some point I just have to shrug and say "eh, anime."

The private dance on the other hand was tremendous, and I loved it. Watching Ledo slowly develop interpersonal relationships with humans in general and Amy in particular has been one of the joys of the season for me, and the ship-teasing is further fueled by the other characters encouraging him to consider his personal desires and the joys that can come of living. They're asking him the unfamiliar question of "what do you want?" This is something that Ledo has the opportunity to consider now that he's "standing by," or "living" as Bevel calls it.

As for the glowing squid, I'm with most of you. It's probably not a Hideouze as Ledo knows it, but a hint that humanity's greatest enemy is of the same terrestrial origin, and is the result of mutations. Further, Ledo is going into the scavenging business, where Bellows says he can uncover all sorts of forgotten things, so we're likely going to get some historical revelations from the bottom of the sea.