AnimeSuki Forums

zalas · 2004-04-20, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold_Rogers

There are people who argue for the listing of Geneon USA co-produced titles and those that argue against it. In terms of raw numbers of people who've posted on this thread alone, it seems to me that both sides have sizable numbers of supporters. What would it take to convince Suki to list them? An overwhelming majority? An indisputable 100% vote? I am confused as to what 'convincing the general' means in this context.

I think the majority of people who want them listed simply want to just watch it. There are a few who would want to watch it and then buy the DVDs when it comes out. The ideal solution would be to have a poll allowing only people who seriously care about the anime production companies and disallowing all the hungry leechers. However, this is pretty much impossible. Since GHDPro has no intention on changing his stance unless something drastic happens, and he pretty much owns the site, I think it'll just stay as it is now.

outlaw55 · 2004-04-21, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red HamsterX

I feel very strongly that AnimeSuki should consider Tenjo Tenge licensed, even with this new information.

At 95%, coupled with Geneon's semi-recent acquisition of Ikkitousen, which many sources have told me to be a series of similar nature, I really can't see them not trying to put a solid licence in place.

aahhhhh shut up red...you think EVERYTHING is licensed....>.>.....

a company may fund a show then realize it isn't popular enough to bring over and NOT license it.....>.>...

NoSanninWa · 2004-04-21, 01:46

Actually that isn't always relevant, let alone true. In the case of L/R (Licensed by Royal), Ganeon USA (then known as Pioneer) bought the license during the financing stage. After seeing the finished product they were horrified to see all the characters constantly smoking. Unfortunately for them they hadn't bought the right to exercise any creative control. Equally unfortunate for them smoking just isn't cool to show on television in the USA.

If they hadn't already acquired the license to L/R as part of the production deal, they would have chosen not to buy the license. Since they had already paid for the license (as well as a share of the Japanese TV profits), they were stuck with it.

Consider this one reason that they are not so certain that they want the license to everything that they co-produce.

hentai_wolf · 2004-04-21, 04:12

Wouldn't it be better to just not list the shows until it's clear that the show is not going to be licensed? It's not like it's going to go anywhere. It's not like people can't fansub it later on. And people do ask Geneon about these shows. If they've decided to pass on a particular show they co-produced, they would have no reason to keep it secret if for no other reason than to stop people from asking them about it.

If fansubs are truly a way to foster anime fandom, then don't list them. If they're not, then fansubs are just a cheap alternative for legitimate releases and you might as well start listing DVDRips.

outlaw55 · 2004-04-21, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by hentai_wolf

Wouldn't it be better to just not list the shows until it's clear that the show is not going to be licensed? It's not like it's going to go anywhere. It's not like people can't fansub it later on. And people do ask Geneon about these shows. If they've decided to pass on a particular show they co-produced, they would have no reason to keep it secret if for no other reason than to stop people from asking them about it.

If fansubs are truly a way to foster anime fandom, then don't list them. If they're not, then fansubs are just a cheap alternative for legitimate releases and you might as well start listing DVDRips.

accually there is a group fansubbing it now...

TiggsPanther · 2004-04-24, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by zalas

I think the majority of people who want them listed simply want to just watch it.

Is this really so hard to understand? And (from a non-commercial point of view) is this really so bad?

Just hold a second before biting my head off, forget the business angle, and look purely from a viewer's point of view...

How is watching a fansub any different from watching something on TV?
You get to follow a series in something approximating realtime. And if you really like it after seeing it, you look into getting the DVD. And if you don't you wipe the tapes/drivespace.

Yes, there are licensing and advertising issues in the business-reality sense. But when you're watching something on TV you really don't care about that. It's not something the viewer has had to care about before, so taking it into account does require a massive mental-shift.
Personally I don't care about the licensing, but I also don't care about the cost. If I want to watch something, and it's available on DVD I will buy it.

Maybe there should be some sort of halfway measure for series that are part-funded by US companies. Like allowing the first 1 or 2 episodes to be listed, but no more - and then yank them either after a clear license or 2 months or something. It'd generate interest, allow people to sample a new seires and see if it's any good, and not allow people to use fansubs as a convenient alternative to buying DVDs. And it won't help the freeloaders (good thing).

Yebyosh · 2004-04-24, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggsPanther

How is watching a fansub any different from watching something on TV?
You get to follow a series in something approximating realtime. And if you really like it after seeing it, you look into getting the DVD. And if you don't you wipe the tapes/drivespace.

Yes, there are licensing and advertising issues in the business-reality sense. But when you're watching something on TV you really don't care about that. It's not something the viewer has had to care about before, so taking it into account does require a massive mental-shift.
Personally I don't care about the licensing, but I also don't care about the cost. If I want to watch something, and it's available on DVD I will buy it.

I don't know about the laws of your country but where I am living, you need to buy a Radio & TV Licence to possess a TV (on the account that you are using the TV to access the publicly subsidised Public television channels on airwaves). You have to pay Cable TV companies for the rights to view their purchased programs. None of them was given to the viewer free.

Even if your TV programmes on airwaves are free, there are still the commercials which the companies have inserted to gain your attention. In other words, the 'free' goods came with strings attached. Did you even watch the commercials that were shown on Japanese TV with those anime on your fansub?

None of the animation companies in Japan have announced that their programs are meant to be viewed by downloading the Internet. If you can say you have purchased the right to view their programmes on your PC from them, no one can dispute your right to view then.

Laurie-chan · 2004-04-24, 20:30

I heard that Geneon USA probably got the license to Tsukihime and "will probably" announce it later this year. They already got the website registered too. This is a rumor as stated below . . .

Tsukihime closer to be licensed? (07:34 AM EST): This one goes firmly in the rumor and unconfirmed bin, but there's a "very good possibility" for it. According to some resourceful readers, they've found that Geneon Entertainment USA has registered the www.tsukihimedvd.com site (as well as the known license, stellviadvd.com). As mentioned in the past, this does not in any way guarantee Geneon's acquisition of Tsukihime, but with them already having announced a CD release and now with this, the odds of an already fairly certain title is even more so.

Seiryuu · 2004-04-25, 00:57

Off topic...
Licenses are confusing, aren't they? Some companies wait a year at times to announce that they bought rights to a series, some, like Geneon, have several series half licensed by virtue of sponsorship, and then you get rumors flying around atop that, just to make sure that all sense is lost.
Anyway, yes, most of us hope stuff isn't licensed so we can finish DL'ing it, or sometimes just so that a series is not grabbed by a really pathetic group...(ALL MUST PROTECT THE KONOHA FROM THE DREADED 4KIDS).
Anyway, I see fansubs the way I see taping anime on TV. Technically, US law says that we are only allowed to record something to watch it ONCE at another time. Then we're supposed to wipe it. But I don't care, and I'm keeping my archives of YuYu Hakusho from now until the day I can afford the massive series. Technically, fansubs are illegal, but the Japanese companies don't seem to care, and I intend to continue my series until they're licensed(and I can afford them).
As for the main topic... many companies are like this now. Bandai, Geneon, ADV, and other companies have bases here and in Japan, but the rights for Japanese distribution do not directly include right to American distro. Geneon CAN buy US distro when they sponsor a series, but it costs more. On the other hand, sponsorship gives them several advantages when the time comes to buy. I don't think Geneon is likely to pre-buy many series, though, since the last time they did that they got L/R. I think after that one, they're more likely to favor waiting and seeing whether the finished product is worth anything.

Secca · 2004-04-25, 12:24

We really not getting anywhere, everyone just speculating, we should write e-mails to Geneon and ask them for comfirmation. ^^

off topic too..
I think the same way too about fansub because basically they recorded from a TV show, It's just the same as when I recorded TV show like Friends or Startrek, so I can watch it later when I have the time. As long as I'm not selling it, I don't think there is really anything wrong about it. The difference is I don't live in Japan so I cannot tape anime or Jdrama show myself.

And I like Animesuki, it's like an archieve, if I missed some anime episodes, I can always find it here and neatly organized too.

Melazoma · 2004-04-25, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secca

We really not getting anywhere, everyone just speculating, we should write e-mails to Geneon and ask them for comfirmation. ^^

off topic too..
I think the same way too about fansub because basically they recorded from a TV show, It's just the same as when I recorded TV show like Friends or Startrek, so I can watch it later when I have the time. As long as I'm not selling it, I don't think there is really anything wrong about it. The difference is I don't live in Japan so I cannot tape anime or Jdrama show myself.

And I like Animesuki, it's like an archieve, if I missed some anime episodes, I can always find it here and neatly organized too.

The copyright infringements in fansubs that are different then VCR/DVR recordings is among many, 1) Alteration of intellectual property without said IP owner's consent--like putting subtitles on top of the images; and 2) Distribution without IP owner's consent.

Seiryuu · 2004-04-25, 19:01

As I see it, here's how the licensing stuff works:
At the beginning, the distribution rights lie in ONE set of hands, the producers'. They have the right and authority to, if they so choose, set up shop here and do all the preparations necessary to sell their stuff here. Most Japanese companies are reluctant to do something that expensive and tedious, especially since they can't be certain it'll sell much of the time. Instead, they're more likely to sell foreign rights to the highest bidder. Sponsorship has nothing to do with distributors' license, so the name at the end of the series means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If Geneon wants to distribute a series in America, they have to own the rights to distribute it at least within this area. ADV was given ownership to those rights when they co-produced Kaleidostar, and they stated that fact. If Geneon has or buys the rights to a series, they will STATE as much on their site, or at an anime conference, and we won't have to debate. Until they officially announce their intent to distribute it, or until their legal ownership is made known, there is NO reason to believe that any particular show is owned by Geneon. So, please, will the admins give us a final answer on Tenjo Tenge and the others? Either rule them licensed and list them as such, or put them up for our enjoyment, please.

microlith · 2004-04-25, 20:01

The judgement has been made, and they will not be listed. GHDpro has said as such. This is out of respect of one blatantly obvious fact:

THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE FANSUBBED. Thus they are not listed here.

With a US company involved, that company has an advantage in the licensing. Namely, they can get it for less. If not them, then it's going to be snapped up by someone else, either by outbidding or Geneon USA passing on the series. Regardless, unless the show is total shit it will be licensed and released (which USED to be the determining factor in whether a show should be fansubbed.)

So yes, the presence of a US company in the credits means SOMETHING. It means that a licensed release both in the US and abroad is that much more likely, if not certain. Used to be that fansubs were supposed to promote a series to get them licensed. Now it's not, it's just about getting it for free it seems.

Secca · 2004-04-25, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melazoma

The copyright infringements in fansubs that are different then VCR/DVR recordings is among many, 1) Alteration of intellectual property without said IP owner's consent--like putting subtitles on top of the images; and 2) Distribution without IP owner's consent.

So are you saying raws are ok? as long we don't do anything to alter the content?

I can understand if the owner doesn't want people to alter content, but distrbution? It's a TV show in the first place, It's already been distributed over million viewer already, we just watch late.

microlith · 2004-04-25, 21:25

we just watch late

And without advertisements. No one's arguing the legality of fansubs here. Raws are as bad as fansubs.

Melazoma · 2004-04-25, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secca

So are you saying raws are ok? as long we don't do anything to alter the content?

I can understand if the owner doesn't want people to alter content, but distrbution? It's a TV show in the first place, It's already been distributed over million viewer already, we just watch late.

Copyright infringement still exists even in Raw distribution. The Japanese TV Stations/Networks purchase the Television Broadcast Rights/Licenses from the Anime Production Houses/Publishers and these Networks offset these cost and hope to turn a profit with advertising revenues.

Whereas the TV Networks paid for the broadcast/distribution rights, the Raw distributions pay nothing and aquire no rights to such distribution from the rights/licenses holders, and therefore is distributing illegally.

Note: These are statements of facts, I'm not editorializing for it would be incredibly hypocrytical of me to do so

Secca · 2004-04-25, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melazoma

Copyright infringement still exists even in Raw distribution. The Japanese TV Stations/Networks purchase the Television Broadcast Rights/Licenses from the Anime Production Houses/Publishers and these Networks offset these cost and hope to turn a profit with advertising revenues.

Whereas the TV Networks paid for the broadcast/distribution rights, the Raw distributions pay nothing and aquire no rights to such distribution from the rights/licenses holders, and therefore is distributing illegally.

Note: These are statements of facts, I'm not editorializing for it would be incredibly hypocrytical of me to do so

Yup, it's just the way the TV rights of distribution works. ^^

I just cannot comprehend their merit in preventing more people seeing their tv show and net alot more viewers tho. Their biggest profit come from selling the merchandises and DVDs anyway.

And beside the practice of taping your favorite TV shows has been around for a while since the era of Beta video, maybe even longer. It has rooted all over the world. They even teach how to tape TV shows in schools.

abubo · 2004-04-26, 02:48

According to my understanding how anime industry work, Geneon doesn't automatically get the license. Here's a breakdown of the copyright of a work:

As all of u know, 80-90% of anime is sourced from manga, novel, or other forms of fiction. The copyright owner of the manga is the mangaka, 90% of the time. The publishers like Kodansha has publishing rights, but they don't own the work. This is exactly how the book industry the world over works.

Now let's say there's a hugely popular manga like say, Tenjo Tenge, and the mangaka and the publisher feels it's time to make more dough by creating an anime. The first thing they do is to try to finance it. According to many sources, approximate cost of a quality anime episode is about $100,000 USD. That means it would cost somebody $1.3 million USD just to make a 13 episode anime.

The first thing the mangaka's going to try to do is to finance it him or herself. This way they retain creative control of the anime and reel in all the profits as well. However, only the richest mangaka can do this. This is the reason there's are so many episodes of Inu-Yasha, and the anime is basically lifted from the manga: Takahashi Rumiko-sensei is the richest woman in Japan.

What if the mangaka didn't have all that dough? Then he's going to seek money elsewhere. In order to get things in place, an "anime" committee is formed, usually organized by the publisher or the mangaka. To join this committe, all you have to do is to put in money. In the committee numerous parties could be involved: the copyright holder (mangaka), publishers (kodansha, suiensha, etc), the broadcasters (TV Tokyo, Fuji TV, etc), Toy makers (Bandai) if a cross-over is possible, and sometimes music houses (Sony, Avex Trax, etc). Sometimes, but not most of the time, the animation studio itself would put money in in order to get some creative control. More money a party puts in, more control they get. Most usually try to stay with the mangaka's original vision, but we know of many animes which became just a shadow of its former manga self (DBZ anyone?) cus the majority stakeholder wanted to squeeze more money despite how the story went. After all the parties put in their money, they hire the director, the animation studio, and everyone in the world now gets to know that a manga's going to be animated.

Now we can see that there are a new entry in this committee party: Foreign licencees. Geneon USA now pro-actively fronts money for an anime. But does that mean they automatically get the license? Of course not. Geneon probably did not invest in a majority share in the making of TenTen. It's likely they put in a just enough to get their name on it. Of course, being an initial investor and a committee member, they would have first dibs on the property. However, THEY ARE NOT THE DECISION MAKERS. The committee votes like any other board of a corporation, and more shares you won more voting power you get. If the committee decides that that another licensee was offering more money or a better fit, then the licensee who's on the committee would still lose the license.

Until a foreign licensee fronts enough money to have a controlling interest in the anime comittee, there's no guanratee that it will get the license. However, since Japanese are really more into relationships than money, it's likely that the 9 out of 10 times the licensee committee member will get the license.

Having said that, I have no idea what's going down with TenTen. After a little research it seemed that, unusually, that the anime is copy-righted directly to 4 parties, not a committee: Oh! Great (the mangaka), Suiensha the publisher, Avex Mode the music producer, and Geneon USA. What's that telling me? Well, my guess is that Oh! Great and Shuiensha had enough money to make this anime by themselve; there was no reason to form a committee to raise additional funds. Avex Mode and Geneon USA probably paid some money to get their name on it, but I don't know if its very significant. Typically music houses like Sony and Avex won't put much into an anime; all they really want was the control and distribution of the OP/ED/OST. If Avex's involved you can bet there's going to be a LOT of music promotion behind TenTen. What's Geneon's stake? I don't really know.. my guess was that it was't that much (they're not exactly rich). Do they have the license? Not yet of course. If they did, they would have announced it already. My guess is that the power player here is Suiensha, and they probably have already picked Geneon as the licensee; but they can't do it just yet just in case ADV decided to throw a lot of money their way in a bidding war. I guess that's why they said they are confident but can't say its theirs outright.

We can expect this to happen more often in the future. Heck, we may even see an anime with a licensee as a majority stakeholder.

Gold_Rogers · 2004-04-26, 02:54

That was a very informative post, thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a long one.

Now if this has already been decided, the discussion has run its course. Why isn't the thread being closed?

**ElvenPath** · 2004-04-26, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold_Rogers

I am confused as to what 'convincing the general' means in this context.

It most probably means AnimeOnDVD.

2004-04-21, 01:46	Link #83
NoSanninWa Weapon of Mass Discussion Fansubber Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, USA	Actually that isn't always relevant, let alone true. In the case of L/R (Licensed by Royal), Ganeon USA (then known as Pioneer) bought the license during the financing stage. After seeing the finished product they were horrified to see all the characters constantly smoking. Unfortunately for them they hadn't bought the right to exercise any creative control. Equally unfortunate for them smoking just isn't cool to show on television in the USA. If they hadn't already acquired the license to L/R as part of the production deal, they would have chosen not to buy the license. Since they had already paid for the license (as well as a share of the Japanese TV profits), they were stuck with it. Consider this one reason that they are not so certain that they want the license to everything that they co-produce. __________________ There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

2004-04-26, 02:48	Link #98
abubo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	My understanding According to my understanding how anime industry work, Geneon doesn't automatically get the license. Here's a breakdown of the copyright of a work: As all of u know, 80-90% of anime is sourced from manga, novel, or other forms of fiction. The copyright owner of the manga is the mangaka, 90% of the time. The publishers like Kodansha has publishing rights, but they don't own the work. This is exactly how the book industry the world over works. Now let's say there's a hugely popular manga like say, Tenjo Tenge, and the mangaka and the publisher feels it's time to make more dough by creating an anime. The first thing they do is to try to finance it. According to many sources, approximate cost of a quality anime episode is about $100,000 USD. That means it would cost somebody $1.3 million USD just to make a 13 episode anime. The first thing the mangaka's going to try to do is to finance it him or herself. This way they retain creative control of the anime and reel in all the profits as well. However, only the richest mangaka can do this. This is the reason there's are so many episodes of Inu-Yasha, and the anime is basically lifted from the manga: Takahashi Rumiko-sensei is the richest woman in Japan. What if the mangaka didn't have all that dough? Then he's going to seek money elsewhere. In order to get things in place, an "anime" committee is formed, usually organized by the publisher or the mangaka. To join this committe, all you have to do is to put in money. In the committee numerous parties could be involved: the copyright holder (mangaka), publishers (kodansha, suiensha, etc), the broadcasters (TV Tokyo, Fuji TV, etc), Toy makers (Bandai) if a cross-over is possible, and sometimes music houses (Sony, Avex Trax, etc). Sometimes, but not most of the time, the animation studio itself would put money in in order to get some creative control. More money a party puts in, more control they get. Most usually try to stay with the mangaka's original vision, but we know of many animes which became just a shadow of its former manga self (DBZ anyone?) cus the majority stakeholder wanted to squeeze more money despite how the story went. After all the parties put in their money, they hire the director, the animation studio, and everyone in the world now gets to know that a manga's going to be animated. Now we can see that there are a new entry in this committee party: Foreign licencees. Geneon USA now pro-actively fronts money for an anime. But does that mean they automatically get the license? Of course not. Geneon probably did not invest in a majority share in the making of TenTen. It's likely they put in a just enough to get their name on it. Of course, being an initial investor and a committee member, they would have first dibs on the property. However, THEY ARE NOT THE DECISION MAKERS. The committee votes like any other board of a corporation, and more shares you won more voting power you get. If the committee decides that that another licensee was offering more money or a better fit, then the licensee who's on the committee would still lose the license. Until a foreign licensee fronts enough money to have a controlling interest in the anime comittee, there's no guanratee that it will get the license. However, since Japanese are really more into relationships than money, it's likely that the 9 out of 10 times the licensee committee member will get the license. Having said that, I have no idea what's going down with TenTen. After a little research it seemed that, unusually, that the anime is copy-righted directly to 4 parties, not a committee: Oh! Great (the mangaka), Suiensha the publisher, Avex Mode the music producer, and Geneon USA. What's that telling me? Well, my guess is that Oh! Great and Shuiensha had enough money to make this anime by themselve; there was no reason to form a committee to raise additional funds. Avex Mode and Geneon USA probably paid some money to get their name on it, but I don't know if its very significant. Typically music houses like Sony and Avex won't put much into an anime; all they really want was the control and distribution of the OP/ED/OST. If Avex's involved you can bet there's going to be a LOT of music promotion behind TenTen. What's Geneon's stake? I don't really know.. my guess was that it was't that much (they're not exactly rich). Do they have the license? Not yet of course. If they did, they would have announced it already. My guess is that the power player here is Suiensha, and they probably have already picked Geneon as the licensee; but they can't do it just yet just in case ADV decided to throw a lot of money their way in a bidding war. I guess that's why they said they are confident but can't say its theirs outright. We can expect this to happen more often in the future. Heck, we may even see an anime with a licensee as a majority stakeholder. Last edited by abubo; 2004-04-26 at 03:04.

2004-04-21, 04:12	Link #84
hentai_wolf Vivisectionist VI Join Date: Feb 2003 Age: 49	Wouldn't it be better to just not list the shows until it's clear that the show is not going to be licensed? It's not like it's going to go anywhere. It's not like people can't fansub it later on. And people do ask Geneon about these shows. If they've decided to pass on a particular show they co-produced, they would have no reason to keep it secret if for no other reason than to stop people from asking them about it. If fansubs are truly a way to foster anime fandom, then don't list them. If they're not, then fansubs are just a cheap alternative for legitimate releases and you might as well start listing DVDRips.

2004-04-24, 20:30	Link #88
Laurie-chan Asian Goddess Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kansas Age: 42	I heard that Geneon USA probably got the license to Tsukihime and "will probably" announce it later this year. They already got the website registered too. This is a rumor as stated below . . . Tsukihime closer to be licensed? (07:34 AM EST): This one goes firmly in the rumor and unconfirmed bin, but there's a "very good possibility" for it. According to some resourceful readers, they've found that Geneon Entertainment USA has registered the www.tsukihimedvd.com site (as well as the known license, stellviadvd.com). As mentioned in the past, this does not in any way guarantee Geneon's acquisition of Tsukihime, but with them already having announced a CD release and now with this, the odds of an already fairly certain title is even more so.

2004-04-25, 00:57	Link #89
Seiryuu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Off topic... Licenses are confusing, aren't they? Some companies wait a year at times to announce that they bought rights to a series, some, like Geneon, have several series half licensed by virtue of sponsorship, and then you get rumors flying around atop that, just to make sure that all sense is lost. Anyway, yes, most of us hope stuff isn't licensed so we can finish DL'ing it, or sometimes just so that a series is not grabbed by a really pathetic group...(ALL MUST PROTECT THE KONOHA FROM THE DREADED 4KIDS). Anyway, I see fansubs the way I see taping anime on TV. Technically, US law says that we are only allowed to record something to watch it ONCE at another time. Then we're supposed to wipe it. But I don't care, and I'm keeping my archives of YuYu Hakusho from now until the day I can afford the massive series. Technically, fansubs are illegal, but the Japanese companies don't seem to care, and I intend to continue my series until they're licensed(and I can afford them). As for the main topic... many companies are like this now. Bandai, Geneon, ADV, and other companies have bases here and in Japan, but the rights for Japanese distribution do not directly include right to American distro. Geneon CAN buy US distro when they sponsor a series, but it costs more. On the other hand, sponsorship gives them several advantages when the time comes to buy. I don't think Geneon is likely to pre-buy many series, though, since the last time they did that they got L/R. I think after that one, they're more likely to favor waiting and seeing whether the finished product is worth anything.

2004-04-25, 12:24	Link #90
Secca nya` Artist Join Date: Feb 2004	We really not getting anywhere, everyone just speculating, we should write e-mails to Geneon and ask them for comfirmation. ^^ off topic too.. I think the same way too about fansub because basically they recorded from a TV show, It's just the same as when I recorded TV show like Friends or Startrek, so I can watch it later when I have the time. As long as I'm not selling it, I don't think there is really anything wrong about it. The difference is I don't live in Japan so I cannot tape anime or Jdrama show myself. And I like Animesuki, it's like an archieve, if I missed some anime episodes, I can always find it here and neatly organized too.

2004-04-25, 19:01	Link #92
Seiryuu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	As I see it, here's how the licensing stuff works: At the beginning, the distribution rights lie in ONE set of hands, the producers'. They have the right and authority to, if they so choose, set up shop here and do all the preparations necessary to sell their stuff here. Most Japanese companies are reluctant to do something that expensive and tedious, especially since they can't be certain it'll sell much of the time. Instead, they're more likely to sell foreign rights to the highest bidder. Sponsorship has nothing to do with distributors' license, so the name at the end of the series means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If Geneon wants to distribute a series in America, they have to own the rights to distribute it at least within this area. ADV was given ownership to those rights when they co-produced Kaleidostar, and they stated that fact. If Geneon has or buys the rights to a series, they will STATE as much on their site, or at an anime conference, and we won't have to debate. Until they officially announce their intent to distribute it, or until their legal ownership is made known, there is NO reason to believe that any particular show is owned by Geneon. So, please, will the admins give us a final answer on Tenjo Tenge and the others? Either rule them licensed and list them as such, or put them up for our enjoyment, please.

2004-04-25, 20:01	Link #93
microlith Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Folsom, CA Age: 41	The judgement has been made, and they will not be listed. GHDpro has said as such. This is out of respect of one blatantly obvious fact: THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE FANSUBBED. Thus they are not listed here. With a US company involved, that company has an advantage in the licensing. Namely, they can get it for less. If not them, then it's going to be snapped up by someone else, either by outbidding or Geneon USA passing on the series. Regardless, unless the show is total shit it will be licensed and released (which USED to be the determining factor in whether a show should be fansubbed.) So yes, the presence of a US company in the credits means SOMETHING. It means that a licensed release both in the US and abroad is that much more likely, if not certain. Used to be that fansubs were supposed to promote a series to get them licensed. Now it's not, it's just about getting it for free it seems.

2004-04-25, 21:25	Link #95
microlith Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Folsom, CA Age: 41	we just watch late And without advertisements. No one's arguing the legality of fansubs here. Raws are as bad as fansubs.

2004-04-26, 02:54	Link #99
Gold_Rogers Famous Dead Pirate Join Date: Mar 2004	That was a very informative post, thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a long one. Now if this has already been decided, the discussion has run its course. Why isn't the thread being closed?