U.S. Politics Thread (2017 going forward)

[Draco Spirit]

Trumps hardly a saint but I'm pretty sure if Hillary had won, war with Russia would look far more likely tbh.

[Magin]

At the end of the day, I really just have one thing to say to anyone to who truly hates Trump (please note that I actually hate both candidates, so this applies to me as well):

Y'all keep forgetting that even if we DO get rid of Trump, Pence is right there waiting in line, followed by Paul Ryan as Speaker of the House. There's not going to be a Democrat in line for a while- earliest that happens is 2020.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by ChuckE

Aren't those cubans were basically the refugees? And also...How many are those cubans?

Cubas is not a country ravaged by war or natural disasters, so I do not get why would you call them refugees. We are talking two million and the numbers has been increasing in recent years, yet miami is not the hot bed of crime like say, chicago.

Those who work in companies and look like civilized person (not some street junk) won't be as suspicious for me as others. I do not care actually about the race - if person learnt the language and adapted to customs of the country - welcome.

You will not fool me with that one, what you really mean to say is "and forget their customs and language from their homeland". Of course people learn english when living in the usa, but you are pissed of when they hear someone speak anything that is not english. Remember, the usa has not official language (unlike other nations), maybe the founding fathers wanted their descendants to be more open to other cultures.

The are different kind of laws. One for peasants - one for elites. For elites it is simple - if your pockets are deep and you are not in conflict of interests with another influental person - you will live free from law forever (though it is up to person whether violate or not).

How many politics were caught by hand being corrupted? It is not that every politician is pure lol it is just that there are no conflicts of interests. One influental person backed by another influental person. But peasant should follow the law and cannot avoid it. Well if he does not have some connections Or was not caught red handed

That is not true. Trump likes to boast how people would still vote for him even if he publicly killed someone in cold blod with a gun, but truth is that he would be in jail by night. Of course a good lawyer helps, but don't confuse that with your fantasies of two parallel legal systems, one for the poor and one the rich.

Originally Posted by Magin

Y'all keep forgetting that even if we DO get rid of Trump, Pence is right there waiting in line, followed by Paul Ryan as Speaker of the House.

Mark my words, Trump will be out in two years, he will board a helicopter just like Nixon to never return to politics. I doubt the honey moon will last long, this is going to be an ugly but entertaining divorce between trump and the repubs.

[MCAL]

https://twitter.com/KeeganNYC/status/817411690274897920

I believe this is what we call Slavery...


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/07/us-et...ails-show.html

"Lost contact..." More like "Trump just plain doesn't want to be Ethical"

[Serovectra]

Originally Posted by MCAL

https://twitter.com/KeeganNYC/status/817411690274897920

I believe this is what we call Slavery...

Prison labor is legal slavery, and it's nothing new.

The Thirteenth Amendment forbade slavery and involuntary servitude, “except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.”

At least it sounds more enticing than rotting away in a prison cell.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Draco Spirit

Trumps hardly a saint but I'm pretty sure if Hillary had won, war with Russia would look far more likely tbh.

That is one ridiculous assumption. If war is to break out (God forbid), it would be because Putin asked for it, and no one else. I'm all for using political isolation, harsh sanctions and other measures against Russia for as long as they keep on violating the sovereignty of their own neighbouring countries. There are things that are just wrong, and they must not stay unpunished.

Can you imagine how many countries would be crying murder and even go as far as to put up sanctions right now if the US were to do with Mexico and/or Cuba what Russia is doing with Ukraine, regardless of whatever excuse the US might pull?

[Key Board]

I suspect that Russia has dirt on Trump, and that's how they are blackmailing him
remember Trump visited Russia

that being said, the appeal of Trump foreign issues to some people is that he is a businessman, and by that reasoning they believe that a businessman's creed is to avoid war
they believe that US taking an isolationist policy to world politics is the way to go, and they believe that Trump champions this cause

And that's certainly want Kremlin wants.

Is this the way to go? should the US stop supporting lesser evils in effort to control geopoltics of other other regions?
should the US just let Iran Russia and Turkey become the dominant power bloc over the middle east
where does that start and end? hmm.. tough questions

edit: I also feel that ceding the Middle East contradicts the pledged support for Israel and Saudi Arabia, which does require a lot of interference.

So what exactly is Trump's platform? Maybe even he doesn't know.

[MrTerrorist]

Trump says Mexico would repay U.S. funds spent on border wall

I don't think the Lawmakers or most of his allies will like this. They're not gonna waste money for something another country didn't ask in the first place and didn't pay for.

[Draco Spirit]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

That is one ridiculous assumption. If war is to break out (God forbid), it would be because Putin asked for it, and no one else. I'm all for using political isolation, harsh sanctions and other measures against Russia for as long as they keep on violating the sovereignty of their own neighbouring countries. There are things that are just wrong, and they must not stay unpunished.

Can you imagine how many countries would be crying murder and even go as far as to put up sanctions right now if the US were to do with Mexico and/or Cuba what Russia is doing with Ukraine, regardless of whatever excuse the US might pull?

Putin a dangerous element, that's for sure(Ex spy leaders have the wrong mentality), but if you want to delude yourself that Hillary chances of pressing the big red button is less than Trumps.. than be my guest.

[ChuckE]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

You will not fool me with that one, what you really mean to say is "and forget their customs and language from their homeland". Of course people learn english when living in the usa, but you are pissed of when they hear someone speak anything that is not english. Remember, the usa has not official language (unlike other nations), maybe the founding fathers wanted their descendants to be more open to other cultures.

Nobody is asking to forget your home culture I just oppose adapting already existing customs for the foreigners (it is not like they do it through military invasion) where you are celebrating something and then guy asks you to stop doing it because it hurts his feeling

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

That is one ridiculous assumption. If war is to break out (God forbid), it would be because Putin asked for it, and no one else. I'm all for using political isolation, harsh sanctions and other measures against Russia for as long as they keep on violating the sovereignty of their own neighbouring countries. There are things that are just wrong, and they must not stay unpunished.

Can you imagine how many countries would be crying murder and even go as far as to put up sanctions right now if the US were to do with Mexico and/or Cuba what Russia is doing with Ukraine, regardless of whatever excuse the US might pull?

My bet is the Europe would support that because you know - US is doing that in order to save them after all

Aside europeans (but well they are in the same boat as US) nobody else is crying over Crimea you know. And regarding Ukraine it is not fair to judge. First of all who started that Ukraine showdown? Not Russians. As with Syria the plan of USA simply did not work.

In Syria it was pretty obvious what USA wanted - they wanted Assad to leave and first of all to open conversation with them. They thought that their domination is undisputable ("Ok Assad, we will stop that but you should do..."). But that guy asked Russians instead

P.S. Regarding Crimea... Many years ago, one certain leader of USSR out of his good will granted Crimea to Ukraine when it was part of the USSR. It was no good idea but well everybody was the part of the union and nobody cared. Putin got a chance to retrieve it - and here it is

Originally Posted by Key Board

Is this the way to go? should the US stop supporting lesser evils in effort to control geopoltics of other other regions?
should the US just let Iran Russia and Turkey become the dominant power bloc over the middle east where does that start and end? hmm.. tough questions

The question is - what USA did forget in middle east at all? I mean it is another continent no less. Rebels are lesser evil for sure

Though I know that people believe that USA is just saving the world But though most people understand is that just USA want to get closer and closer to biggest powers on another continent and make those countries to be the same as was Belarus during the WWII (direct confrontation USA would like to avoid for sure though)

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Honoakari

You know, I'd really like if you or someone else could provide some quotes. Something that you consider to be direct proof of Trump's racism.

Originally Posted by Honoakari

Well I don't have the time to google stuff either. You claim something => you have the burden of proof.

You had time to post here yet you didn't find the couple seconds it takes to enter 'Trump racism' in google? Of course Additionally you had a full eleven months to follow Trump's growing list of racist remarks. Are you imitating an ostrich? Going from denouncing a judge to be biased against him because of his heritage to echoing white supremacist sentiments to discrimination against blacks. Not to mention being the spearhead of the whole birther idiocy as well as his numerous comments against women. Here is the text when Trump announced his run for presidency, just ctrl+f rapists to get one example.

Originally Posted by ChuckE

Well if 10 people of raceX do 3 crimes and 10 people of raceY do 7 crimes, guess what race has the most criminal activity?

If we assume that the amount of blacks and white are the same and extrapolate the criminal activity by race - guess who will be the winner?

All I read in this is an extremely simplistic view of things. Reducing crime rates to ethnicity alone is short-sighted and ignores all the other major factors of why people turn to crime. Because this seems to be an abstract concept to grasp, let me phrase this in simple words:

Skin colour or ethnicity doesn't make people more susceptible to crime.

Originally Posted by ChuckE

If you are a citizen with all corresponding attributes - ID, etc. nobody is gonna deport you.

I am laughing out loud every time when I hear that people does not want to deport illegals. I mean - WTF? Why? They are ILLEGALs. They are not legal and basically violate the law

Law is vastly more complex than you understand. Read below for more.

Originally Posted by Honoakari

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law by being in US. Therefore, they must be found and punished (imprisonment, deportation, etc.). Whether they're hard-working or not is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Honoakari

Personally, I blame the loose border security. Had the borders been secure, no illegals would have entered US to get those jobs in the first place.

I do not care what races the illegals belong to. If they're breaking the law, they should be punished.

Or do you disagree with the idea that the rule of law should be upheld?

Rule of law should be upheld for everyone, including those that offer the market for illegal immigrants. You forgot to mention those. And let's not ignore the reasons those people who fled from war or ethnic persecution in their country. Deporting them back would be unconstitutional but having them in the country is illegal. Or those who fled their country because they had the choice of (for example) starvation or undertaking the journey over the ocean. If you ask ten immigrants why they fled to _____ you will hear ten different stories. Even if these people get deported, they will just take the next chance to come back. They have reasons to come over here and these reasons should be primarily addressed.

And since one or both of you will interpret this as "Eisdrache is saying that we should just let all these immigrants flood into our country with no regulation at all!" and I don't want to enter this cesspit of ignorance, no this is not what this post is saying.

---

Originally Posted by ChuckE

My bet is the Europe would support that because you know - US is doing that in order to save them after all

As an actual European, my bet is that you don't really have a clue about Europeans.

Originally Posted by ChuckE

Aside europeans (but well they are in the same boat as US) nobody else is crying over Crimea you know.

And regarding Ukraine it is not fair to judge. First of all who started that Ukraine showdown? Not Russians. As with Syria the plan of USA simply did not work.

P.S. Regarding Crimea... Many years ago, one certain leader of USSR out of his good will granted Crimea to Ukraine when it was part of the USSR. It was no good idea but well everybody was the part of the union and nobody cared. Putin got a chance to retrieve it - and here it is

This is like speaking to Brother Coa. All hail mother Russia and father Putin.

Let's not pretend that invading a sovereign state is accepted behaviour these days, ok?

Originally Posted by ChuckE

In Syria it was pretty obvious what USA wanted - they wanted Assad to leave and first of all to open conversation with them. They thought that their domination is undisputable ("Ok Assad, we will stop that but you should do..."). But that guy asked Russians instead

The crimes against his population that Assad committed might be of some importance too.

Originally Posted by ChuckE

The question is - what USA did forget in middle east at all? I mean it is another continent no less. Rebels are lesser evil for sure

Though I know that people believe that USA is just saving the world But though most people understand is that just USA want to get closer and closer to biggest powers on another continent and make those countries to be the same as was Belarus during the WWII (direct confrontation USA would like to avoid for sure though)

If only the world were that simple.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Trump says Mexico would repay U.S. funds spent on border wall

I don't think the Lawmakers or most of his allies will like this. They're not gonna waste money for something another country didn't ask in the first place and didn't pay for.

The problem is than you are talking about republican congresmans and senators, pretending only to be fiscally responsible. If it serve their narrative or/if their donors would benefit from it, they will vote yea at the first opportunity.

Originally Posted by Draco Spirit

Putin a dangerous element, that's for sure(Ex spy leaders have the wrong mentality), but if you want to delude yourself that Hillary chances of pressing the big red button is less than Trumps.. than be my guest.

I can't really say which of the 2 might had the chance of starting a war with another superpower. But between Hillary or Trump, I would say than Hillary was more likely to be the more able to realise the consequence of starting a war, conventional or not. Where might be the issue is than, after what is still happening after her defeat, she seem much less able to see her own fault or to blame other for said fault than a leader should. Trump is still a disaster on that regard but Hillary's case is worse than I feared.

[Honoakari]

Originally Posted by Donald Trump

When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

@Eisdrache: I see nothing racist here. Keep in mind that:

A recent report indicates that there are at least 820,000 illegal aliens in the US with criminal records. Among those, 81% are convicted felons.

Source.

[ChuckE]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Even if these people get deported, they will just take the next chance to come back. They have reasons to come over here and these reasons should be primarily addressed.

Then allow them to address. Allow them to develop themself. Without foreign intervention.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

This is like speaking to Brother Coa. All hail mother Russia and father Putin.

For mother Russia!

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Let's not pretend that invading a sovereign state is accepted behaviour these days, ok?

Strangely enough, invasions of USA is the accepted behaviour Oh, wait they are doing that just to bring peace...

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

The crimes against his population that Assad committed might be of some importance too.

Suddenly the governments (to be more precise USA and co.) saw that crimes around 2010-2011 I presume? Why is that? Why not earlier for example? It is actually interesting that basically at the same time middle eastern leaders suddenly became dictators

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

If only the world were that simple.

Yet, when I do not like USA actions you blame me for not understanding them, when you do not like Russian actions - you still blame me for not understanding them lol The world is not that simple after all

P.S. actually the talk will go nowhere

[OH&S]

But he sounds so evil when giving his New Year's message...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ChuckE

Strangely enough, invasions of USA is the accepted behaviour Oh, wait they are doing that just to bring peace...

Did you seriously think that there were a worldwide support for the invasion of Iraq in 2003?

[ChuckE]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Did you seriously think that there were a worldwide support for the invasion of Iraq in 2003?

You know, yugoslavia war is considered "good" war and iraq war is considered "bad" war. You know why? Because one was led by democrates, while other by republicans

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ChuckE

You know, yugoslavia war is considered "good" war and iraq war is considered "bad" war. You know why? Because one was led by democrates, while other by republicans

Jesus, learn history. American intervention in Yugoslavia had to be done because we utterly failed to stop Serbs from doing its "ethnic cleansing" and so. Iraqi war shouldn't have been done, because... Where are the WMD? It was clear to anyone who have a brain that the latter have been pushed by economic interests.

[Haak]

TL;DR…

frivolity

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by ChuckE

You know, yugoslavia war is considered "good" war and iraq war is considered "bad" war. You know why? Because one was led by democrates, while other by republicans

Have you no shame at all?