2013-02-19, 16:42 | Link #82 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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If someone pay taxes to a country then they should have every right to be accepted as a contributing member! Every taxpayer should at least get a green card (permanent resident?). |
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2013-02-19, 22:34 | Link #83 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Unless they're paid in cash, illegal immigrants have taxes deducted from every pay check. It is just that the actual owner of the Social Security Number gets credit for the withholding taxes rather than the illegal worker. They also pay sales tax and they indirectly pay property taxes when they pay rent.
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2013-02-20, 08:26 | Link #85 |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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So someone could slip across the border, live here for a month or two, show that they paid taxes from activities associated with simply living here, and then get citizenship? That would be quite a slap in the face for people who played by the rules and immigrated here legally. That is not a fast or painless process.
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2013-02-20, 08:30 | Link #86 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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You don't have to be a citizen to legally be here. That is a myth (and I'm not saying you necessarily are guilty of believing it, your post just reminded me). So many times I've heard arguments for allowing illegals amount to "well it's really hard to become a citizen so they should be allowed to stay here illegally". :? Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-20 at 08:50. |
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2013-02-20, 08:45 | Link #87 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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What kind of fantasy journey do you think those people take anyway?
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2013-02-20, 09:20 | Link #88 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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But who is aware of the process behind immigrating legally, and that can be involved in trying to attain citizenship or permanent resident status? Many think that you can just come over, get some working papers, wait a few short years, and then - ta da! - you're in. I would not be surprised if it works that way for some people, but that's not what I've seen. There are struggles and risks taken all around, legal or illegal. The former tend to be forgotten when we talk about and sympathize with illegal immigrants.
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2013-02-20, 11:34 | Link #89 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2013-02-20, 11:49 | Link #90 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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People try to cross the border illegally not because it is EASY. They do it because there is no other way. Not everyone had the means to get the paperwork or payments. So they risk their lives. At any stage did your parents risked their lives as a part of the bureaucratic process? I am speaking as an immigrant who's parents also worked hard to get me a citizenship in Australia. They did so by essentially paying the Australian government. So it's not that I don't know what you are on about. But claiming illegal boarder crossing is EASY is still wrong.
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2013-02-20, 13:25 | Link #91 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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"No Taxation Without Representation". |
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2013-02-20, 14:06 | Link #92 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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afaik the government doesn't care about making permanent residents into citizens. It just cares about making illegals not illegal, either by deportation or pushing them to get some sort of legal status here. |
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2013-02-20, 14:14 | Link #93 | |
On a mission
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I cannot condone illegal immigration because you really need to respect the laws of the land but I also wouldn't think of them l as dirty parasites since they do pay taxes and obviously won't be using the equal share of public resources due to umm... being illegal. Though I'd imagine they'd contribute a lot more then the real parasites of the country. You know, those people up there using illegals and branding them as scapegoats while they jump through tax loopholes the size of a small town. Yes, keep blaming welfare, illegals, and the lazy, while ignoring them!
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2013-02-20, 14:40 | Link #94 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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I don't like the idea of illegal immigrants at first, but I would not complain just because they are illegal, especially since many of them are willing to contribute if it means they can be accepted. The only time when I complain is when some illegal immigrants have protests about how they should have all the rights of citizens, but they don't want to get green cards or take even one step forward in becoming a legal resident. It's highly disrespectful to citizens (especially naturalized ones), and it also rides on the myth that you must be a citizen to legally be in the United States. Wrong and a slap in the face. If you want the club benefits, join the club, or at least show that you really, really want to join. Don't stand outside it yelling that you want in, but you don't want to even fill out the paperwork. |
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2013-02-20, 14:45 | Link #95 | |
On a mission
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If we provide incentive for illegals to account for their actions and pay their dues, and give them a chance to properly go through the proper process, there would be more effect. Say make it punishable but through fines and unpaid back taxes. If you threaten to deport them, then why the hell would they even think of cooperating with you? It should be made it so that they're better off staying put and working off to accede to our demands rather than just going off with the hammer. It's the same reason why we don't throw people in jail for jaywalking. Laws need to be enforced, but the action taken must be sensible and humane. Well, I guess we could also spend a few more billion down the drain to safeguard some documents for border patrols and enforcement officials to go on a witch hunt. Or punish children for the sins of their parents. That will be swell. I believe in this kind of method for many of the highly and overly condemned illegal nonviolent behavior such as drug usage and prostitution that we should instead use it for economic benefit and softly discourage certain behaviors.
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2013-02-20, 14:52 | Link #96 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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An ugly truth that I hope all anti-illegal immigration people know. |
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2013-02-20, 15:41 | Link #97 | |||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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The new law mandating that everyone have health insurance should help with the emergency department abuse problem in general. However, undocumented immigrants - being undocumented - may still evade it. I don't feel that illegal immigrants are "parasites," but I resent that they got around the legal process. Sure, they're not living securely or equally as a legal immigrant does, and they took their own risks going by their own process. The rules are what they are; we can talk about changing them, but they should apply to everyone.
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2013-02-20, 15:49 | Link #98 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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The thing about laws, is that they can be changed. And if changing the laws would benefit the country, then there is no harm altering them.
There is no reason why just because someone is illegal now, doesn't mean they can't become legal if the chips fall in place. This isn't really as much about following the law as to change the laws to suit the circumstances. The government has the ability to alter laws in a way that benefits the country. And that's really the thing. To obey existing laws to the letter would be undesirable. The reason the law breaking are tolerated was because society decided current rules are stupid and turned a blind eye. Laws exist to serve the country, and the people in it.
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2013-02-20, 15:52 | Link #99 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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Out of curiosity, does Australia receive a lot of illegal immigrants?
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2013-02-20, 15:55 | Link #100 | ||
On a mission
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In any case, this is but one factor, others being the state being terribly broke and the fact that our health care system is run in a way to deny the poor care or have them cost life and limb just to stay alive. I feel that they are being singled out. Quote:
Rules should apply, but enforcement needs to be done with sense. Well, we finally see something eye to eye.
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