Log Horizon S2 - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Craxuan

Actually regarding the raid boss, that's not true. It is entirely possible to set an algorithm where, if Raid Boss A's health drops below a certain %, then the other nearby Raid Bosses will also arrive to assist Raid Boss A. While I haven't played nearly enough MMORPG to make a judgment, I can't believe no one has ever figured out something like that and implemented it in our games.

its one raid boss per raid battle. its the rule. didn't one of the members said that. having multiple raid boss when the difficulty is set to the maximum possible for one raid boss would make it an impossible raid boss. unless its a twin or set raid boss but if that happens. its still BALANCE in a way its possible to be defeat.

But this time around a total different raid boss from a total different zone just decide to crash in the party

killing one is already hard enough. But killing 3 AT THE SAME TIME is impossible.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Craxuan

Actually regarding the raid boss, that's not true. It is entirely possible to set an algorithm where, if Raid Boss A's health drops below a certain %, then the other nearby Raid Bosses will also arrive to assist Raid Boss A. While I haven't played nearly enough MMORPG to make a judgment, I can't believe no one has ever figured out something like that and implemented it in our games.

There are boss encounters with stages that involves another boss, yes.

But no, this was two entire separate bosses, barging in the fight.

[Craxuan]

Oh. I can see why MMORPGs aren't so popular at my place at least. I'm seriously surprised no one came up with something similar to Log Horizon's idea. Funny how people can set up ridiculously intricate puzzles but not ponder over something as simple as this...

Regardless, I think it's obvious that the point isn't to fight 3 raid bosses at the same time. As you've all said, it's physically impossible.

But there are ways. Their objective isn't to kill all the raid bosses after all.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by Craxuan

Actually regarding the raid boss, that's not true. It is entirely possible to set an algorithm where, if Raid Boss A's health drops below a certain %, then the other nearby Raid Bosses will also arrive to assist Raid Boss A. While I haven't played nearly enough MMORPG to make a judgment, I can't believe no one has ever figured out something like that and implemented it in our games.

Actually, you brought up a good point. As you said, it is entirely possible that other raid bosses joining battle is triggered by either timer, HP bar or number of time it shattered. There were bosses like that in MMO and non-MMO games alike. It is indeed a bit too hasty to judge with information shown so far.

btw, my post earlier was based on assumption that if bosses can indeed do as they please, if they can leave their respective raid zone and roam outside field, what will happen.

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Note that they actually say they can kill off the goblins easily. They -choose not to- because if they simply shatter them, the goblins will go running around and kill the Landers.

The Adventurers are explicitly doing a maneuver to group them all together and annihilate them en masse, rather than shattering them.

Yes, the current situation -is- dangerous, but I think people are being a bit overly deprecating of the Adventurer abilities.

My point still stand. They need to encircling Goblins because if any goblin's raiding party slip by the damage will be done to the landers. If they need that long to deal with mere goblins, there is no possible way they can prevent all damage when all raid bosses break loose. It is not about just go there and kill the boss. They can't encircling all of them at once. There will be much more lander casualties this time.



I do admit I'm a bit disturbed that discussion on this topic either goes "Oh no adventurers gonna get wiped out over and over" or "Nah we gonna farm the shit out of those bosses and get tons of epic loots". It's all about us and loots. What about poor lander ? not many seem to care

[FRS]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

...

I do admit I'm a bit disturbed that discussion on this topic either goes "Oh no adventurers gonna get wiped out over and over" or "Nah we gonna farm the shit out of those bosses and get tons of epic loots". It's all about us and loots. What
about poor lander ? not many seem to care

Agreed, the point is not the Adventurers killing all the things, it's about them able to protect the infrastructure to live (no farm no food for exemple).

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

Actually, you brought up a good point. As you said, it is entirely possible that other raid bosses joining battle is triggered by either timer, HP bar or number of time it shattered. There were bosses like that in MMO and non-MMO games alike. It is indeed a bit too hasty to judge with information shown so far.

btw, my post earlier was based on assumption that if bosses can indeed do as they please, if they can leave their respective raid zone and roam outside field, what will happen.

It's actually not that great of a point because what he said doesn't apply to this situation. There was no HP trigger to call the other bosses. Each and every one of these boss fights were balanced to be fought on their own. The scene was used to show that all monsters are starting to break out of their "game algorithm." As was every other scene up till now, flavor text, the world getting bigger, avatars over-writing the players; it's all being used to show that the world they are in is becoming more "real."

Originally Posted by Hmm....

My point still stand. They need to encircling Goblins because if any goblin's raiding party slip by the damage will be done to the landers. If they need that long to deal with mere goblins, there is no possible way they can prevent all damage when all raid bosses break loose. It is not about just go there and kill the boss. They can't encircling all of them at once. There will be much more lander casualties this time.

But the situation would be entirely different when it comes to an assault on Akiba. They are fighting the goblins in a wide open environment, meaning they must be careful and meticulous about how they kill the goblins. An assault on the city would be spotted long before it reached them and the adventurers would have plenty of time to fortify the entrances. And in the city, the Landers could easily be moved around to safe zones, such as the Guild Hall and each individual guild zone. Rural Combat and Urban Combat have entirely different rules. You are largely over estimating weak monsters, and under estimating the ability of the adventurers to organize themselves.

The only thing they would have to worry about is collateral damage from AoE's on the structures in the city, and that's even if the goblins managed to break the adventurer's front lines, which I doubt they would.

[Forbin]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

its one raid boss per raid battle. its the rule. didn't one of the members said that. having multiple raid boss when the difficulty is set to the maximum possible for one raid boss would make it an impossible raid boss. unless its a twin or set raid boss but if that happens. its still BALANCE in a way its possible to be defeat.

But this time around a total different raid boss from a total different zone just decide to crash in the party

killing one is already hard enough. But killing 3 AT THE SAME TIME is impossible.

Actually in Warcraft there's this exact zone with 3 bosses, if you kill one of them, the other two join in...it's UGLY. You actually have to split the raid 3 ways to kill all 3 bosses at the same time.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Forbin

Actually in Warcraft there's this exact zone with 3 bosses, if you kill one of them, the other two join in...it's UGLY. You actually have to split the raid 3 ways to kill all 3 bosses at the same time.

Yes, but in this fight with 3 bosses, it's still set up in a way for you to be able to beat it regularly. The fight is balanced for the other 2 to join in. This dungeon was not balanced for the other two bosses to join in.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Forbin

Actually in Warcraft there's this exact zone with 3 bosses, if you kill one of them, the other two join in...it's UGLY. You actually have to split the raid 3 ways to kill all 3 bosses at the same time.

I said that its possible but its BALANCE in a way that its possible to beat and the strength of each boss isn't raised to the max with the same strength as other raid boss, Its design to be beaten.

In my experience in MMO. I only fought raid boss after raid boss and some times 2 at the same time but individually they are weaker or have glaring weakness that can be exploit. It hard to fight them when they are together or if the space is limited and you can't get away from aoe attacks but overall. the more nasty ones are when there are mobs summon every now and then that disturbs the battle. its much annoying that way. specially if they spawn randomly and ended up attacking your supports.

[Craxuan]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

There was no HP trigger to call the other bosses

Lol. Then how do you explain the bosses suddenly joining the fight? Note that they came specifically to help out this raid boss. So of course they detected that its HP was below a certain threshold, and thus triggered a command where they arrive to fight off the enemy. Whether the monsters are 'breaking out of their gaming algorithm' has nothing to do with it, in fact there's absolutely zero need to break out of code if we assume that it was designed like this in the first place.

Like do you even UNDERSTAND what you're talking about? Have you never played a puzzle? 'Oh, because the monsters are now irregular they came to help this raid boss'. Like what? If you're saying that the bosses are now 'sentient', then why the hell didn't they come earlier the moment the invaders showed up?

Even if we suppose they're now sentient, they still need to have a way to detect that their 'comrade' is in danger. The simplest explanation to this is that they can detect each other's HP and arrived to help the moment that boss' HP dips below a threshold. Another explanation would be time where after a certain amount of minutes, the raid bosses will automatically enter this combat zone.

The point is that this can TOTALLY be designed and is TOTALLY possible even in our real life MMORPG this moment. Therefore it does NOT even stand as evidence that the behavior of the game was changed, because this can be just like any other raid with a change of flavor in it. Or are you going to say that a raid that instakills you at a certain zone is totally out of the norm and SkyNet is live? OMG TERMINATORS HUMANITY IS DOOMED!

Also, just because there's an unsaid (NOTE: UNSAID) rule that there usually is just one raid boss in one raid zone doesn't mean that it must be that way forever. It's like saying, 'OMG that boss does 9999 damage to all my characters in 1 hit it's unwinnable OMG GG GIVE UP I CAN'T GO THROUGH THIS LEVEL', which is totally stupid. It means that there's another way to go through this particular level that does not necessitate or require you to force your way through.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

But the situation would be entirely different when it comes to an assault on Akiba.

Exactly my point. I don't care about Akiba, much less adventurers living in it. Landers who live in major adventurer city like Akiba or Minami are in the safest place they could ever be. I concern more about landers in other cities, especially those who don't live in large settlements with magic barrier.

I also doubt that when bosses roam the land, they will come running and assault Akiba wave after wave. I see no motive for them to do so. It's also unlikely that they will specifically target any settlement for that matter. That actually make them a lot harder to handle as they are unpredictable (remember? Shiroe's worst enemy ).