AnimeSuki Forums

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-10-21, 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dithar

Is falling from the cliff due to the sheer force of the boss's wings flapping a normal happening?

At least I don't remember any raid having a mechanic like that. This is because "reality' right?

Bosses have knock-back abilities since forever, it's just that this one is presented as flapping it's wings.

Ickarium · 2014-10-21, 05:18

One of the first bosses in WoW, Ragnaros (the one down below, not the one in the Firelands) had an attack that knocks you high in the air. Falling could be a bitch.

Gundamx · 2014-10-21, 05:30

Lick King (have that skill too)

but worse one for me was Titan from FFXIV
(one mistake and you are out

)

YouTube

https://youtu.be/4rsWL6Z_NJE

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Spica · 2014-10-21, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ickarium

One of the first bosses in WoW, Ragnaros (the one down below, not the one in the Firelands) had an attack that knocks you high in the air. Falling could be a bitch.

Oh I remember these kind of mechanics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Bosses have knock-back abilities since forever, it's just that this one is presented as flapping it's wings.

I know about knock-backs I just don't have the pleasure of falling from a cliff

. Then again my MMO days weren't exactly long.

Any way what happen to those who fall in EP3? (including Nao and tetora).

Hmm.... · 2014-10-21, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ickarium

One of the first bosses in WoW, Ragnaros (the one down below, not the one in the Firelands) had an attack that knocks you high in the air. Falling could be a bitch.

I love that kind of Mechanic. No matter how high your level are. If you are retard and get caught up in skill like that. The fall will still likely kill you lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by dithar

Any way what happen to those who fall in EP3? (including Nao and tetora).

Respawn at raid entrance I believe ?
It is unlikely that any healer can rez them

Tenzen12 · 2014-10-21, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hmm....

There is also a scene where Naotsugu and Tetra complain why they don't fly there. Shiroe had to explain that not all members have flying mount and William want to use this time to get accustom to new raid members & formation. So yea the journey do take quite awhile.

I think that is exactly why DDD is still messing around with Goblin raid (lvl30 ? lvl50 ?) They are not ready yet. Silver sword goes we aren't a wimp. We will aim for a big thing. Classic error.

That's exactly fair, Silver Sword in it's current situation didn't aim for anything, they understaffed and doesn't have backing of crafting and trading guilds. They wouldn't even consider raid if not for Shiroe explicit request. Another factor is involving more people would bring greater chance for Intel leakage.

unpossible · 2014-10-21, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitecloud

I dont think i could imagine doing first person raid content, especially with memory at stake, how about you guys?

If you are there will you guys just lounge around like those akiba guys or keep doing high end raid, just in case there is clue to discover the truth about the world...

Or maybe just travel / explore the world like kanami

I might do some raiding, but I'd mostly love to explore the world. It's a fictional world basically come to life, and I'd now practically be immortal. The big thing people worry about is dying and losing memories... you die, you lose experience. Not a new concept. But here's the thing: we lose memories every day. For me, it's a fair trade off for the sort of power and freedom being an adventurer will give me. If my brother was stuck in the world with me (like Tohya and Minori), we probably wouldn't care if we returned to the real world.

FRS · 2014-10-21, 17:08

I rechecked the effectifs of the big guild in episode 9 of season 1, Silver Sword is at 220 members, DDD is at 1534, with the loss of motivation i can see how it can be difficult for Silver Sword to farm lower level raid.

unpossible · 2014-10-21, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRS

I rechecked the effectifs of the big guild in episode 9 of season 1, Silver Sword is at 220 members, DDD is at 1534, with the loss of motivation i can see how it can be difficult for Silver Sword to farm lower level raid.

i thought they just said William doesn't want them farming low level raids?

kukuru · 2014-10-22, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by unpossible

i thought they just said William doesn't want them farming low level raids?

There are some that just got up and left, and there are some that only want to farm lower raids.

There are multiple issues, one of which is that without fairy rings they can't really do that many raids in general. So anything decently hard...is very small core people.

Since Silver Sword is a elite raiding guild, naturally people don't like moving towards a "casual" direction, and friction happens anyway.

What's the point of being silver swords if you're not going to clear new content.

SQA · 2014-10-25, 08:15

I'm a little late to this, but a few responses to things that cropped up.

Everquest 1 had instanced raid content before Everquest 2 launched, but it also had fixed dungeons for most of its years. (Everquest had bits of Instancing in different places starting in 2003) Though there's not really much to suggest it's actually instanced.

Raid Management, even at the high-end, is truly far more about logistics & planning, long before you ever get to the event, than just the strategy you'll be applying to the event. (And Lord help the idiot that triggers a raid event early the first time you're even seeing it)

As for the disadvantages of being, well, "in-person" for a raid, that's a little different. You lack all of the modern tricks, so this is very much an old-school approach to the raids, but these are plenty of tricks available to deal with content like that. Mental notes collected from all of the members, generally works pretty well for aggregating during rebuffing periods. (And credit to Commie subs for knowing to use "Tank & Spank")

Don't underestimate me on this point. In the old days of raiding, there were a lot of tricks. We did everything from have someone listen to the sound a Raid Boss used when casting a spell for movement calls, all the way to running a Raid Boss around in a circle for a full hour to figure out spell timing. This was a lot of the fun of Everquest raiding: nothing was given to you, so you had to work hard to come up with ways to deal with the problem. So, truthfully, being in-person isn't that much of a hindrance. Sure, modern video, log parsing and other modern approaches would be nice for them, but given the reload time for attempts, it's less of an issue. Having specific classes collect specific information & the ability to watch a fight directly, with your eyes as a camera, is a pretty solid way to analyze raids.

In told, though, eps 2 & 3 gave a very good overview to the functional aspects of raiding. Everything from proper Group Formation (so utterly underrated by most Raid Leaders) to Trash Clearing and Iterated Raid learning. As a long-time bleeding edge raider, I can say it was really well done.

Though the one way in which Log Horizon's world is much more like the very early days of MMO raiding, that's probably lost on most, is it used to take a LONG time between attempts at a Raid Boss. Modern MMOs let you get back in action in just a few minutes. In the "early days", since they were all D&D clones, it really took a very long time. 2-3 attempts over 5 hours wasn't unheard of. Now you can get that done in maybe 45 minutes (or less) in modern MMO content. Makes a massive difference in the time it takes to complete a raid.

Kafriel · 2014-10-25, 09:16

^ Some games still have strict entry requirements, usually stuff like quest items from a daily quest which you have to clear every time before a raid attempt or (more commonly) a limit on the attempts per player, even once per day - which means dc is a bitch :P

Awesome episode, I LOVE the raid dungeon map...it's three huuuuge floors with traps and monsters everywhere, plus a maze layout! If they really do clear this, Shiroe deserves that infinite money...and maybe a top-tier item to bring back to Akatsuki as a souvenir

Speaking of which, this episode introduced skill ranks. I assume the top dogs all have at least hidden-rank skills, but it should be pretty hard for casual players to reach even that...so I wonder, how rare will the teachings be and by what factor would they increase a skill's power? (and, of course, who would be able to get their entire main kit to teachings-tier when getting even one of them is legendary?)

Marcus H. · 2014-10-25, 10:22

Quote:

teachings

No, please. It's better called an Overskill, as in the official.

Hmm.... · 2014-10-27, 08:03

I do agree that Overskill sound cooler and all. However, I find that called it "teaching" would be more accurate for what it really is. Still, I wish they could find better word for it (not that I can suggest one lol)

Estavali · 2014-10-27, 08:37

There's a good reason why they're called Overskills, which I expect would be revealed soon in the upcoming episodes. It would probably also be a just-as-good explanation why the term "teachings" would fail to describe their essence.

View Poll Results: Log Horizon S2 - Episode 3 Rating
Perfect 10	7	23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	10	33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	11	36.67%
7 out of 10 : Good	2	6.67%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

2014-10-21, 05:18	Link #82
Ickarium Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	One of the first bosses in WoW, Ragnaros (the one down below, not the one in the Firelands) had an attack that knocks you high in the air. Falling could be a bitch. __________________

2014-10-27, 08:03	Link #94
Hmm.... Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I do agree that Overskill sound cooler and all. However, I find that called it "teaching" would be more accurate for what it really is. Still, I wish they could find better word for it (not that I can suggest one lol) __________________ (\__/) (O.o ) (> < ) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

2014-10-27, 08:37	Link #95
Estavali 物語は、もう、おしまい……？ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In the Horizon Age: 43	There's a good reason why they're called Overskills, which I expect would be revealed soon in the upcoming episodes. It would probably also be a just-as-good explanation why the term "teachings" would fail to describe their essence. __________________ Signature by liro

2014-10-21, 05:30	Link #83
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Lick King (have that skill too) but worse one for me was Titan from FFXIV (one mistake and you are out ) YouTube https://youtu.be/4rsWL6Z_NJE Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

2014-10-21, 17:08	Link #88
FRS Lurker on the threshold Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: France Age: 46	I rechecked the effectifs of the big guild in episode 9 of season 1, Silver Sword is at 220 members, DDD is at 1534, with the loss of motivation i can see how it can be difficult for Silver Sword to farm lower level raid.

2014-10-25, 08:15	Link #91
SQA Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	I'm a little late to this, but a few responses to things that cropped up. Everquest 1 had instanced raid content before Everquest 2 launched, but it also had fixed dungeons for most of its years. (Everquest had bits of Instancing in different places starting in 2003) Though there's not really much to suggest it's actually instanced. Raid Management, even at the high-end, is truly far more about logistics & planning, long before you ever get to the event, than just the strategy you'll be applying to the event. (And Lord help the idiot that triggers a raid event early the first time you're even seeing it) As for the disadvantages of being, well, "in-person" for a raid, that's a little different. You lack all of the modern tricks, so this is very much an old-school approach to the raids, but these are plenty of tricks available to deal with content like that. Mental notes collected from all of the members, generally works pretty well for aggregating during rebuffing periods. (And credit to Commie subs for knowing to use "Tank & Spank") Don't underestimate me on this point. In the old days of raiding, there were a lot of tricks. We did everything from have someone listen to the sound a Raid Boss used when casting a spell for movement calls, all the way to running a Raid Boss around in a circle for a full hour to figure out spell timing. This was a lot of the fun of Everquest raiding: nothing was given to you, so you had to work hard to come up with ways to deal with the problem. So, truthfully, being in-person isn't that much of a hindrance. Sure, modern video, log parsing and other modern approaches would be nice for them, but given the reload time for attempts, it's less of an issue. Having specific classes collect specific information & the ability to watch a fight directly, with your eyes as a camera, is a pretty solid way to analyze raids. In told, though, eps 2 & 3 gave a very good overview to the functional aspects of raiding. Everything from proper Group Formation (so utterly underrated by most Raid Leaders) to Trash Clearing and Iterated Raid learning. As a long-time bleeding edge raider, I can say it was really well done. Though the one way in which Log Horizon's world is much more like the very early days of MMO raiding, that's probably lost on most, is it used to take a LONG time between attempts at a Raid Boss. Modern MMOs let you get back in action in just a few minutes. In the "early days", since they were all D&D clones, it really took a very long time. 2-3 attempts over 5 hours wasn't unheard of. Now you can get that done in maybe 45 minutes (or less) in modern MMO content. Makes a massive difference in the time it takes to complete a raid.

2014-10-25, 09:16	Link #92
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	^ Some games still have strict entry requirements, usually stuff like quest items from a daily quest which you have to clear every time before a raid attempt or (more commonly) a limit on the attempts per player, even once per day - which means dc is a bitch :P Awesome episode, I LOVE the raid dungeon map...it's three huuuuge floors with traps and monsters everywhere, plus a maze layout! If they really do clear this, Shiroe deserves that infinite money...and maybe a top-tier item to bring back to Akatsuki as a souvenir Speaking of which, this episode introduced skill ranks. I assume the top dogs all have at least hidden-rank skills, but it should be pretty hard for casual players to reach even that...so I wonder, how rare will the teachings be and by what factor would they increase a skill's power? (and, of course, who would be able to get their entire main kit to teachings-tier when getting even one of them is legendary?)