Macross Delta - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Annorax]

They already sell Roids glasses case, will they start selling pipe-remote aswell.
Speaking of canon, YF-29 is in the Frontier slide as well. Kawamori, unlike some neckbeard nerds on the interweb doesnt give a shit about strict and holy bible of canon. Love it.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by karice67

For the record, I thought this was quite a poorly written episode. Not knowing exactly where the story will end, I can't say whether the info revealed in this episode was necessary or not. But the fact that it was pretty much dumped on us left a bad taste in my mouth, even if it did also advance the plot in a significant way.

Well maybe it''s to put some more thesis about epsilon foundation? Also the episode has set the stage for the grand finale of the love triangle. While Freyja is now shocked about what her songs do to the person she loves, Mirage gets screen time to open her feelings and what she was not able to say in the last ten episodes. And a lot of fillers as well.

[Annorax]

Shit, now that YF-29 popped out during histroy lesson's Frontier slide, does it mean that Mikhail is alive like in the movie?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I believe my issue with him doing it for newcomers is where this exposition dump is in the series.

Yeah, it is a bit late. They still needed a breather after last ep, but this went on longer than I thought it would.

[FlamingMangos]

Originally Posted by Thess

Mirage got more lines but is all about her feelings for Hayate which makes me think she'll romantically triumph and get no other development but that. While Freyja's arc is far more tied to Mikumo and music. At least, IMO, because Hayate compared Mirage to his mom, that's a done deal with Kawamori when two of his protagonists, Alto and Amata, ended up with women who remind them to their mommies. It's a little too late to do anything else with her.

I really don't like it if you can easily predict who can win because of similar situations for a previous couple. Like, you should be predicting based on how much development a character have with the character and how well their chemistry are being together and not because oh!, mirage reminds Hayate of his mother which is similar to a old macross couple which already confirms them being together! That's just so easy to know who will win if that's true and it really doesn't seem like good writing when they make it so obvious. I want a hard time figuring out who will win because it makes it more entertaining.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

I really don't like it if you can easily predict who can win because of similar situations for a previous couple. Like, you should be predicting based on how much development a character have with the character and how well their chemistry are being together and not because oh!, mirage reminds Hayate of his mother which is similar to a old macross couple which already confirms them being together! That's just so easy to know who will win if that's true and it really doesn't seem like good writing when they make it so obvious. I want a hard time figuring out who will win because it makes it more entertaining.

Just as well that I hope this is not the case. Because it's a serious cop-out for Kawamori (the phrase "you marry your father/mother" in life is overused in his franchises). And this time around, if he chooses Mirage over Freyja, I will genuinely be downright confused and angered because even his interactions with Mirage never implied he carried a romantic interest in her. Hell, he downright ignored her on their "date." There is little chemistry between them, too. Again, questions be raised if the love triangle goes like everyone believes based on the prior series' in the franchise because Kawamori said Delta will have differences, and I wait for it to be proven.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

I really don't like it if you can easily predict who can win because of similar situations for a previous couple. Like, you should be predicting based on how much development a character have with the character and how well their chemistry are being together and not because oh!, mirage reminds Hayate of his mother which is similar to a old macross couple which already confirms them being together! That's just so easy to know who will win if that's true and it really doesn't seem like good writing when they make it so obvious. I want a hard time figuring out who will win because it makes it more entertaining.

Neither couple have 'romantic chemistry' to me, so I don't really care about that.

[FlamingMangos]

Anyone know what this says? Apparently its Freyja's VA speaking her opinion on the future episodes.

Spoiler:

>アニメージュより
>―他に、第20話以降の展開の注目点はありますか？
>石川　ストーリー全体で注目していただきたいのは、今まで謎めいた存在だった美雲とは、いったい何者なの か。
>そして、それが戦況にどんな影響をこの戦況におよぼしてくのかという点です。
>またウィンダミア陣営としては、空中騎士団メンバーのそれぞれの想いも見えてくるので、楽しみにしていた だければと思います。
>そしてロイドは、自分でも気づかないうちに“野望”に浸食されていく気配が見えてきます。僕もそんな彼を 、頑張って表現したいと思います。
>NTより
>―「マクロスΔ」のストーリーですが結末はすでにご存じですか？
>鈴木　誰に聞いても絶対に教えてくれないんですよ(笑）。
>―では、鈴木さんの視点でクライマックスの注目点を教えてください。
>鈴木　「マクロスΔ」は今までの「マクロス」シリーズと関係が深い作品だと思っています。
>なので歴代の「マクロス」シリーズを見ている方は、それぞれのつながりに注目してクライマックスを見てい ただきたいなと思います

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Neither couple have 'romantic chemistry' to me, so I don't really care about that.

I'd disagree but I imagine our idea of 'romantic chemistry' differ greatly.

Right now, though, the only girl "in the door" is Freyja because he communicates with her on a regular basis and their interactions give off a "chemistry" (remember in episode 6 that Makina and Reina comment on this by saying "were they separated at birth?" (or directly translated "two birds of a feather") and both Hayate and Freyja look at them right at the same time). The only issue is if this will go into a romantic atmosphere. So far, him giving her a huge birthday gift in episode 16, and Mirage pointing out his possible feelings for Freyja, have ultimately opened the door for him to begin realizing he is close to her (more so than I believe he's ever been someone else).

Meanwhile, Mirage is... she's a comrade, a friend, a person he knows? Once Messar died, and their plans for saving him failed, her interactions with him lessened. Based on episode 16, it's revealed she has his phone number (and vise versa more than likely), so why is neither calling each other to talk like normal friends in their free time? Hell, they're alone for a majority of episode 14 and nothing romantic occurs to come even close to episode 16 for Freyja. Their so-called "chemistry" is only based on their ability to back each other up on the battlefield and even that has decreased to nothing at this point.

Their [Hayate and Mirage] "romance" is a farce invented by Makina and Reina who wished to play around in their free time. Meanwhile, Hayate and Freyja are moving forward as characters and romantic interests to each other (especially Freyja, who is about ready to admit she is in love with him and comes close in episode 17).

If Mirage were to claim Hayate, I'd be wishing for an explanation at this point because if we're talking about couples being based on chemistry, Hayate and Mirage's is non-existent right now.
(I don't know if I'd call it the biggest troll by Kawamori, but it'd be one hell of one in my eyes. )

[magnuskn]

His biggest troll was Ranka, as far as I am concerned. ^^

Followed by Zessica, for very different reasons.

[CriiGV]

Who was it that a few episodes ago was saying that Freyja was being set up to leave the triangle behind and take focus instead on plot things and her singing, all because she was reaching levels of "too good for this world"?

I hate to say it but I think they're right, specially after last episode. Messiah flags are popping up all over the place.

Spoiler:

My shiiiip....

If she decides to leave on her own accord, deciding that romance is not what she needs and instead solely focus on plot shenanigans and her singing, I'll be fine with it. My precious cinnamon roll, too good for this VAR infested world...

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

His biggest troll was Ranka, as far as I am concerned. ^^

Even Ranka had a fair shot in the TV series up until episode 21 rolled around. And in the movies, she is his childhood friend. She had opportunity and missed it; fair game. However, she also had a friendship with Sheryl, even so close that fans of their relationship call it "romantic," especially in Japan. More fans ship Ranka and Sheryl than even Alto and Sheryl (and it's canon ). So, Ranka had more development on relationships in Frontier.

Mirage, on the other hand, is a hollow shell of a character when it comes to who she builds relationships with. Her role is to help Hayate on the battlefield and be depressed/annoyed/angered by Hayate and Freyja interacting. In fact, she has no friendship really with anyone in Walkure (including Mikumo) other than Freyja, and it's based upon her interaction with Hayate. Frontier did a similar aspect with Sheryl connecting Alto and Ranka together, remember? Bad part of this is: Mirage is designed (by Macross standards: is oldest, full breasts, mature in attitude) to do as Sheryl did (connect Hayate to Freyja) but she is playing the role of Ranka here (needing Freyja to connect her to Hayate, and vise versa with Hayate connecting her to Freyja).

At this point, I don't care to believe in Mirage grabbing Hayate because... at this point, it'd come out of nowhere and also, I'd like her to develop as a character first (even Ranka did that).

(Also, don't even get me started on EVOL; because even if my ship won, to this day, I wonder how. )

@CriiGV and FlamingMangos: Freyja could still solve the war and be with Hayate if everything plays out right. After all, right now, everyone could say our ship will sink only to troll us. It's something even Frontier did. I'm not throwing in the towel till episode 23 at least.

[FlamingMangos]

Originally Posted by CriiGV

Who was it that a few episodes ago was saying that Freyja was being set up to leave the triangle behind and take focus instead on plot things and her singing, all because she was reaching levels of "too good for this world"?

I hate to say it but I think they're right, specially after last episode. Messiah flags are popping up all over the place.

Spoiler:

My shiiiip....

If she decides to leave on her own accord, deciding that romance is not what she needs and instead solely focus on plot shenanigans and her singing, I'll be fine with it. My precious cinnamon roll, too good for this VAR infested world...

Yeah... and apparently Freyja's VA even said that she thinks that too in a interview. Welp, looks like that's really going to happen. Another love triangle show I am disappointed with and will possibly drop. I mean, that's just really sucks. It's the worst possible outcome for me and it just gives Mirage a free win.

[dmaxzero]

As much as I like Mirage. This is the first Macross show where there is not really a romance, as romance is understood. I get the feeling that no one will get no one at the end of this. I am fine with that and really ok with any of the options to be honest. It is only my opinion, but this is a Macross show where I am not really invested in any of the character except Mirage for superficial reasons, because her design hits a sweet spot for me and that´s it.

-(Honestly I think I enjoyed the thing Hibiki and Sylvie had in Macross II way more than what is going on here.)

XD

[CriiGV]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

Yeah... and apparently Freyja's VA even said that she thinks that too in a interview. Welp, looks like that's really going to happen. Another love triangle show I am disappointed with and will drop. I mean, that's just really sucks. It's the worst possible outcome and it just gives Mirage a free win.

Well idk about that interview but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it since VAs aren't allowed to spoil us.

Anyway, even though I'll be disappointed if HayaFre doesn't happen, I think there's certain beauty in outgrowing a love triangle and realizing you have more important things to take care of, specially in Freyja's case who just keeps jumping hurdle after hurdle and becoming something akin to "unreachable". I mean, yeah it sucks because who doesn't want their favorite girl to have a happy love life? But ultimately it signifies character growth and Freyja would leave an impact on the romantic Macross front for deciding to leave the triangle on her own.

I was pretty upset yesterday because I was being overprotective of Freyja and how many problems she was being shot down with, specially in comparison to Hayate and Mirage. But after cooling my head and rationalizing things, I realized all of this was for her own good and that I just had to accept it. She'll come back stronger and better each time, a true MC at it's finest.

The Hoina we all deserve.

If it's done correctly, then I'm on board. Just ffs Kawamori, don't end up having her dead at the end of the series in some valiant sacrifice so everyone else could be happy.

[Tak]

So here is what I think about the triangle.

If Frejya wins? Well, not unusual as it is the expected outcome. We get it, move on.

If Mirage wins? Well, there is a sigh of relief, but I wouldn't feel vindicated. Certainly it would lack the UMPH that was Sheryl & Alto in Wings of Goodbye.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

Anyone know what this says? Apparently its Freyja's VA speaking her opinion on the future episodes.

Spoiler:

>アニメージュより
>―他に、第20話以降の展開の注目点はありますか？
>石川　ストーリー全体で注目していただきたいのは、今まで謎めいた存在だった美雲とは、いったい何者なの か。
>そして、それが戦況にどんな影響をこの戦況におよぼしてくのかという点です。
>またウィンダミア陣営としては、空中騎士団メンバーのそれぞれの想いも見えてくるので、楽しみにしていた だければと思います。
>そしてロイドは、自分でも気づかないうちに“野望”に浸食されていく気配が見えてきます。僕もそんな彼を 、頑張って表現したいと思います。
>NTより
>―「マクロスΔ」のストーリーですが結末はすでにご存じですか？
>鈴木　誰に聞いても絶対に教えてくれないんですよ(笑）。
>―では、鈴木さんの視点でクライマックスの注目点を教えてください。
>鈴木　「マクロスΔ」は今までの「マクロス」シリーズと関係が深い作品だと思っています。
>なので歴代の「マクロス」シリーズを見ている方は、それぞれのつながりに注目してクライマックスを見てい ただきたいなと思います

Animage and Newtype this month?

I'm about to go to a seminar to translate everything but it does affirm there's clear confirmation Roid lost himself in his ambition without realizing (so maybe he started with good intentions but lost himself along the way kind of deal), there'll be more exploration for the Aerial Knights, Mikumo's mystery, and Minorin doesn't know the ending but there's a lot of connection with past Macross works (maybe she was talking about this episode, remember interviews were made weeks ago at least). That's the most important gist. I'll take a look when I get back if I missed something relevant.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Tak

So here is what I think about the triangle.

If Frejya wins? Well, not unusual as it is the expected outcome. We get it, move on.

If Mirage wins? Well, there is a sigh of relief, but I wouldn't feel vindicated. Certainly it would lack the UMPH that was Sheryl & Alto in Wings of Goodbye.

If Mirage wins, there is no umph. This writing team is serviceable but by no means brilliant, and I don't see how they would suddenly finally start developing Mirage's character with one-third of the series remaining and get Hayate to think of her as more than just wingman-senpai, when for the rest of the series they've done nothing with her at all.

So for me, at worst they trample all over the Hayate-Freyja relationship to wedge Mirage in place, at best Mirage is a consolation prize girlfriend.

[Tak]

Yeah, for some odd reason, I had a very weird sense of deja vu. I thought I was watching ZZ Gundam!

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

If Mirage wins, there is no umph. This writing team is serviceable but by no means brilliant, and I don't see how they would suddenly finally start developing Mirage's character with one-third of the series remaining and get Hayate to think of her as more than just wingman-senpai, when for the rest of the series they've done nothing with her at all.

So for me, at worst they trample all over the Hayate-Freyja relationship to wedge Mirage in place, at best Mirage is a consolation prize girlfriend.

- Tak

[stray]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

Even Ranka had a fair shot in the TV series up until episode 21 rolled around. And in the movies, she is his childhood friend. She had opportunity and missed it; fair game. However, she also had a friendship with Sheryl, even so close that fans of their relationship call it "romantic," especially in Japan. More fans ship Ranka and Sheryl than even Alto and Sheryl (and it's canon ). So, Ranka had more development on relationships in Frontier.

I'm mostly indifferent to the pairings themselves but there was a great chemistry between all 3 of them in Frontier (especially in the movies) that's really sort of missing this time around.

Also, there's a major lack of a Kaifun/Brera/Sivil type character that just makes things feel more stagnant.