Attack on Titan - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[LeoXiao]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

I disagree with this, if Eren weren't the way he is who knows what would have happen to Mikasa. Armin would likely be dead too. Nor would he be able to inspire people like he does. It's just that story makes also makes a point that Eren's sociopathic tendencies also have consequences. He doesn't hesitate to give his life for others but that in itself also a flaw which is why Mikasa does everything in her power to protect him.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that it only worked once? And sure he saved Armin but only at the cost of being eaten. In fact right after he saved Mikasa he also almost got killed were it not for her action.

As for his inspiring others well sure that's great and all but it ultimately only matters if you can back those words up with results, which Eren hasn't done. Not to mention I don't remember anyone being particularly inspired by his maniacal drive.

Not trying to lower Eren's character here, I actually like him quite a lot. I'm just pointing out his flaws, which, if this were typical shounen, wouldn't really be considered flaws. Got ideals? Great. Got the motivation? Great. Now get out there and kick ass. That's typical shounen. In SnK, it's more like: Got the ideals? Okay. Got the motivation? Uh huh. Now get out there, try to kick ass, and get eaten.

Now, ideals and motivation aren't totally rejected - they did after all save Mikasa. But just as the production model is superior to the prototype, Mikasa seems to have learned from and surpassed Eren in her fundamental will and ability to excel.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that it only worked once? And sure he saved Armin but only at the cost of being eaten. In fact right after he saved Mikasa he also almost got killed were it not for her action.

How does that take away from his deeds? It's no small feat to save a life at the cost of your own and it's no small feat for a kid to kill two grown men, even if he did get surprised by a third.

As for his inspiring others well sure that's great and all but it ultimately only matters if you can back those words up with results, which Eren hasn't done. Not to mention I don't remember anyone being particularly inspired by his maniacal drive.

Plenty of people have been inspired by Eren and produced results because of it. Mikasa became who she is now. Some from the top ten new recruits decided to risk their lives against Titans when they could've lived in luxury. Eren was able to put Jean into a better frame of mind before he went out there and it's very possible that's saved his life too.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I'm not going to agree or disagree with how you view his character morally but...

I do think you don't give his character enough credit. He's no ordinary hotheaded shonen protagonist. He's completely batshit insane. Most shonen leads blow a lot of hot steam and might be reckless, but Eren is completely different. He's willing to do immoral things for his perception of justice. He actually acts on what he says. He's pretty extreme in general, though at the same time it's hard to deny that he's wrong. If he didn't do what he did in the past, Mikasa would have been sold away and the bad guys would have ran. Was it ugly and terrible to watch? Yes, but he the fact remains that he saved Mikasa's life.

Does this make him admirable? I don't think this is a black and white issue. On one hand he is absolutely reckless, but on the other, it's his overwhelming determination to do what is necessary that inspires people around him. The problem is if he's not restrained, then well last episode showed us what happens.

I think the show has actually done a very good job of showing the pros and cons of the typical shonen brashness that is personified by Eren. It's not led him to complete failure and has allowed him to accomplish feats he wouldn't have normally been able to but nor has it always done him well and has sometimes shown the darker aspects. Instead of the show deciding to subscribe to either one of two extremes (recklessness always gets you results or recklessness never gets you results) it's actually made a decent balance.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that it only worked once? And sure he saved Armin but only at the cost of being eaten. In fact right after he saved Mikasa he also almost got killed were it not for her action.

As for his inspiring others well sure that's great and all but it ultimately only matters if you can back those words up with results, which Eren hasn't done. Not to mention I don't remember anyone being particularly inspired by his maniacal drive.

Not trying to lower Eren's character here, I actually like him quite a lot. I'm just pointing out his flaws, which, if this were typical shounen, wouldn't really be considered flaws. Got ideals? Great. Got the motivation? Great. Now get out there and kick ass. That's typical shounen. In SnK, it's more like: Got the ideals? Okay. Got the motivation? Uh huh. Now get out there, try to kick ass, and get eaten.

I agree with what you're saying in general, it's just that he's had a bit more success than that in my view. It's not just with saving Armin. He also able climb to the top 10 of his peers with that insane drive. Yes he almost got killed trying to save Mikasa, but his actions and words spurred her to survive.

He managed to get Armin Thomas, Mina and a bunch others to see the bigger picture of their situation, and earn a respect from them. It may not be much but it's something.

EDIT: Basically Haak said pretty much what I wanted to say, but better

[ookamigirl]

Armin was totally shell shocked.
It was hard enough to deal with Titans, now even humans are giving them crap.
Flashback to Mikasa's past was interesting.
No wonder she is this way now...
Wonder if they'll show us Eren next time..

[Allium]

I liked this episode; the flashback was rather well done, without being more dramatic than it needed to be, and it wasn't too rushed or too slow either, though it was more violent than I expected. It explained a lot about Eren and Mikasa's relationship, like the reason behind Mikasa's attachment to him. The ending theme makes so much sense now.

I was rather taken aback by Eren though. His brashness and recklessness had been shown in past episodes, but this time it was taken to a whole new level. Never thought that he could've actually killed to save someone at such an age. He's no more the generic hot-headed shounen protagonist I used to see him as.

Well, the kids really had it tough. And when Mikasa finds out about Eren next episode...oh dear.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Honestly, people are going on about how Eren is screwed up, but this episode clearly shows that Mikasa is just as bad, if not worse then he is now.

The "truth" she realized effectively turned her into the killing machine she is now. I get the feeling her near super-human level of capability is because a vital part of her psyche is permanently damaged. This episode shows not only why Mikasa sticks to close to Eren, but that she also relies on him to keep herself together. He may have needed her physically, but she needed him far more emotionally.

In short, bad ass Mikasa that everyone praises would never have existed without Eren, and I get the feeling she is likely to fall apart very rapidly without him.

That aside

Spoiler for Manga Comparison:

I do feel they have made Mikasa far too emotive in the anime, it really makes her feel like a completely different character. In the manga we had an emotionally damaged individual who was unnaturally skilled at basically everything. In the anime she feels far more well-balanced, almost completely removing the more disturbing (and interesting) aspects of her character. Particularly how emotionally dead she is, and her very prominent obsession with Eren. I think the removal of her "dead-eyes" really messes with the perception of her character.

This makes her feel less interesting in my opinion. In the anime she is just straight out a badass character, with none of the negative elements portrayed in the manga. Unlike Eren, who retained both the positive and negative aspects of his character.

[Bombo]

Sad history for mikasa

[DXMichael]

Poor Mikasa, she's pretty much had her family taken away from her twice, and the gap between them doesn't seem that far a part, i'm guessing she only had a short while being accustomed to her new family before tragedy struck again.

In terms of mental health, Eren and Mikasa both seem on equal levels. They've both killed at a young age and witnessed death at a young age. The outcomes are far different though, Eren wants revenge for the things that have happened to him whereas Mikasa wants to protect the only good thing left that has happened to her, which both funnily enough intertwined into the Recon Scouts, both having still the same goal but the new objective of killing Titans to accomplish that goal.

I really liked the flashback (That's not a bad thing to say, is it? After all we watch Mikasa's life get torn a part ) and it definitely shows where it all began.

[NoemiChan]

Well..... they really are good killers....

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by DXMichael

Poor Mikasa, she's pretty much had her family taken away from her twice, and the gap between them doesn't seem that far a part, i'm guessing she only had a short while being accustomed to her new family before tragedy struck again.

Trice. If you add Eren into account... for now

[-Sho-]

Dat scene killed me

[Gundamx]

they killed Mikasa parent and try to sell her as w*ore for some lolicon >> they deserved everything they received from Erin
and it's good think since unlike normal shounen hero he will just beat them > they run away > kidnapped/killed other people..etc

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Well, at least child-Eren is consistent with his teenage self:

*Slave-trader killed Mikasa’s mom* : “I’ll kill those damn bastards!!!”

*Titan ate his mom* : “I’ll f*cking kill them all!!!”


Also, did I just saw Okama-Titan in this episode? That’s reeeally creepy .

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Well, at least child-Eren is consistent with his teenage self:

*Slave-trader killed Mikasa’s mom* : “I’ll kill those damn bastards!!!”

*Titan ate his mom* : “I’ll f*cking kill them all!!!”


Also, did I just saw Okama-Titan in this episode? That’s reeeally creepy .

The fact that the titans are so odd and carefree is what makes them so disturbing to me. It gets better when you add the fact that theyre not really very intelligent creatures, and that they dont need humans for sustenance. They're just having a jolly old time.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Dat scene killed me

^_^
awesome gif i have seen in ages. saved.

[Warm Mist]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I see [Eren] as a typical shounen lead rather than as a hotheaded and highly dangerous maverick (in my mind, they're synonymous, but that's just me).

They might be both the same based on the logical tenets they stand on, but the way a "generic shounen lead" interacts with their world, and the way their actions are presented, is not really that similar to Eren's situation.

Eren is a straight out psychopath, there's no beating around that. Not only for what he did to the bandits here, but also (and more importantly, I think) for his overall attitude towards it. His sense of justice is insane. I mean, if the phrase "I merely put down some rabid dogs; sometimes they just happen to look like humans" doesn't signal it, I don't know what does.

His actions have brutal, ugly consequences, and this is emphasized. The show goes out of its way to show the ineffectiveness of his worldview (i.e. his entire squad, including himself, is dead because of it).
It seems to me it takes more on an observer role regarding what Eren's character represents, at least for now, compared to how idealized these "generic shounen leads" normally are (I don't really know what that term is referencing, but I just assume it's about WSJ-like battle manga heroes, similar to Goku or Luffy).

[n120cky]

Do you think Mikasa only follow Eren because Eren save her and killing a someone in the progress? Hey wait I remember something similar. . .

Spoiler for who don't follow SAO:

Isn't Kirito and Asuna have similar circumstance? Kirito did kill someone for Asuna and they get married.

But I don't think it's that simple, I think Mikasa clinging to Eren because she saw him as the last family she has, I have feeling she don't give a damn to Armin anyway, even if she does, it's not as same as Eren.

[aohige]

I'm late! I'm late for episode 6!



*grabs a 16m wide sofa*

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by n120cky

But I don't think it's that simple, I think Mikasa clinging to Eren because she saw him as the last family she has, I have feeling she don't give a damn to Armin anyway, even if she does, it's not as same as Eren.

Come on, Mikasa isn't a Gasai Yuno who doesn't give a damn about anything but the guy she loves the most. If she was your typical Yandere she wouldn't have cared about all those people that were going to become titan food because of that greedy merchant.

Mikasa naturally loves Eren the most, but she also cares about Armin as a friend. Even if it wasn't in the manga, we have seen that she even punched Eren in the face when he acted out against Armin.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Eren killed his squad only in anime...
in manga they die because titan attack them first while they still frozen > act slow = death, but anime need guts! They can't let MC charge alone while other just see him and do nothing...

Completely irrelevant to the anime. Learn to separate the two. In the context of the show, Eren's largely to blame. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

The "truth" [Mikasa] realized effectively turned her into the killing machine she is now. I get the feeling her near super-human level of capability is because a vital part of her psyche is permanently damaged. This episode shows not only why Mikasa sticks to close to Eren, but that she also relies on him to keep herself together. He may have needed her physically, but she needed him far more emotionally.

I'm not sure if Mikasa can be said to be emotionally dependent on Eren. The only thing that seems clear is that she's completely devoted to the person to whom she owes her life. It's more akin to an act of eternal gratitude. In contrast, I don't see evidence of her treating Eren as an emotional crutch.

And it's not just her life she's thankful for, but her new worldview. She probably feels deeply indebted, for better or worse, to Eren for awakening her to life's cruel realities. I'd also agree that her desire to protect is not focused on Eren alone, but to anyone who needs her strength. There are several clear examples of that, as others have already pointed out.

Oh, last point. I like that we now know why she wears that scarf at all times. It's not just a part of her design, but an item of great personal importance. That's a nice touch, I feel. It humanises her to some extent.