Mahouka - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Echizen777]

The only times his weak magic proved to be useful was against Hanzo and it's because he is able to make calculations, he can't even use it everytime since he usually loads his CADs with better magics.

His arsenal is good but not considered as magic in the truest sense of the term, which is the reason why he is a Course 2, the system is not perfect. Even by assuming that the poster was right, in what using your weak powers to beat the strong ones make you perfect? You can find characters like that everywhere.

[moridin84]

In any case, those are reasons.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Lelouch might be over the top but he certainly has weaknesses and suffers from them


There are a few defintions of meritocracy.

My point exactly. Everyone wants power to go to those who "deserve" it. It's practically a tautology. They just have different views of what constitutes "deserving power".

The one I am using is "some people are better than others and they should be in charge". Being charge also confers extra rights.

But better at what?

Those two are born to powerful families

How is being born in the right family a merit? It's not like anyone has a choice in their birth. You're describing aristocracy.

and are very strong magicans.Thats plently of merit.

Kinda. One might ask what magical strength has to do with leadership (why not physical beauty? Or video game skill?), but yes, one might argue that magical strength is important and in that sense, the system is meritocratic.

Though I'll note that Mari, despite being one of the "Big Three", has nowhere near the authority of the other two.

Though they aren't exactly the problem anyway.

Well, no. The author decided that aristocracy worked (just like other authors decided for their stories that hot blood or otaku-ism worked), so Mayumi and Katsuto are competent, loyal and follow "noblesse oblige" principles.

But the question - at least the question I was trying to answer - is "Does Mahouka promote meritocracy?" And I'll say it again - completely independent of whether meritocracy itself or Mahouka's system are good or bad: no.

First because Mahouka isn't truly meritocratic, except in the minds of the characters. Second because what meritocratic aspects there are, are based on something that doesn't exist IRL: magic. There's no clear RL analogue. One could talk about skill for combat, since a lot of the justifications for Mahouka policies take root in magic as a military resource in a world at war, but it's not a very good comparison. Almost anyone can pick up a rifle (or sword, or spear, or whatever's in use). They may not be very good with it, but that's different from magic, where most people absolutely cannot use it. And where even among those who can, a lot is determined at birth and cannot be trained. It's also different in that the best swordsman in the world is worth, what, two or three average soldiers? The disparity between magicians is much greater.



I'm reminded of Jim Butcher's Furies series. There, too, magic is inherited through bloodline, and is important to survival in a hostile world. But they make no pretense at "meritocracy", even though being promoted if your magic and achievements place you above your current rank is common.

Well, I don't suppose the whole magic = authority is rare.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My point exactly. Everyone wants power to go to those who "deserve" it. It's practically a tautology. They just have different views of what constitutes "deserving power".

Democracy is about distributing power though?

In a certain sense, Democracy is a system that avoids giving people too much power.

But better at what?

Everything?

How is being born in the right family a merit? It's not like anyone has a choice in their birth. You're describing aristocracy.

One might ask what magical strength has to do with leadership (why not physical beauty? Or video game skill?), but yes, one might argue that magical strength is important and in that sense, the system is meritocratic

"No one has a choice in their birth?" Sure, just like no one has a choice in how smart or good looking (base) they are, that's genetics.

And yes, magical strength doesn't have anything to do with leadership. So?

First because Mahouka isn't truly meritocratic, except in the minds of the characters. Second because what meritocratic aspects there are, are based on something that doesn't exist IRL: magic. There's no clear RL analogue. One could talk about skill for combat, since a lot of the justifications for Mahouka policies take root in magic as a military resource in a world at war, but it's not a very good comparison. Almost anyone can pick up a rifle (or sword, or spear, or whatever's in use). They may not be very good with it, but that's different from magic, where most people absolutely cannot use it. And where even among those who can, a lot is determined at birth and cannot be trained. It's also different in that the best swordsman in the world is worth, what, two or three average soldiers? The disparity between magicians is much greater.

Take out magic and it's still a meritocracy. Magic isn't relevant.

[bietchie11]

I love meritocracy!!!!

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by IceHism

It's MAL, the chance of seeing an intelligent comment is zero

Seems so,because one guy that weekly states that he hates Mahouka,suddenly became interested talking about politics and gambling in the 9SC

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Pretty typical of anime fandom. Other fandoms get it too, but it seems to be especially prevalent in anime. If you don't like something, it can't simply mean there's taste differences. It HAS to be because the anime in question sucks. Sucks. SUCKS. And you (generic you) will tell everyone how much it sucks. Verbosely.

In other comments, I didn't have an issue with this episode, slow as it was, as the sports stuff is a backdrop for other things. It's not a 'sports anime'.

Yeah,someone was also recommending LN's that he likes that are "superior" and keeps on insulting Mahouka and it's fanbase.

Hope that Monolith code and the newcomers division will not be that shortened.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Democracy is about distributing power though?

To those who deserve it by winning elections. They prove their ability to convince people to come to the polls and vote for them.

In a certain sense, Democracy is a system that avoids giving people too much power.

Almost all systems of government put limits on power. Because no one deserve that much power.

Everything?

People better than others at everything are exceedingly rare. You can't run a government with so few. And I'll note, Mahouka's mainly interested in magic and bloodline.

"No one has a choice in their birth?" Sure, just like no one has a choice in how smart or good looking (base) they are, that's genetics.

1. Even if there's a genetic base, they're abilities which can be refined.
2. You have to prove your ability, even if it's just a paper test. If people just assume someone is "deserving" because some ancestor of his was, you've got aristocracy, not meritocracy.

Unless you think luck is a skill? In that case, just pull names at random. The fresher the luck, the better, right?

And yes, magical strength doesn't have anything to do with leadership. So?

Meritocracy is based on two things:

1. proven ability, as said earlier.
2. the assumption that that ability makes you a better leader. That assumption isn't always warranted, but it's there, or people would pick other leaders.

Take out magic and it's still a meritocracy. Magic isn't relevant.

Take out magic and we have no idea what they'd do. Mahouka wouldn't be recognizable. That's like saying "take money out of America and the system will stay the same". Will lobbies and PACs and whatnot still be so powerful when everyone has to barter and trade slows to a crawl?

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by moridin84

The "Ten Master Clans" get a number of privileges because they are powerful. And only as long as they are powerful I'm sure.

That... sounds like a meritocracy to me.

By "merit" I don't mean just "magic power", I mean ability, results, success, whatever. Whether that "success" is due to magic power, intelligence, hard work or random luck.

If that's your definition, then anything that had been achieved in RL can be argued as meritocratic (for its duration), including "Communism" and aristocracy.

A more strict definition of meritocracy is one that always strive for the best. What you have described is simply something powerful enough to maintain the status quo, but without the explicit will to always strive for the best and look for improvement.

"No one has a choice in their birth?" Sure, just like no one has a choice in how smart or good looking (base) they are, that's genetics.

If I hire my nephew over someone who's more competent because I am really close to my brother, that would be "meritocratic" under your definition. But I am sure it's clear to see how others can disagree with this.