2022-05-12, 23:28 | Link #81 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
|
Yes, viability is not arbitrary. Viability as proof of personhood in other hand certainly is. That said if you think viability is line where fetus gain right to live then you are already on pro life side of argument even if line you decided is further then some might like.
__________________
|
2022-05-12, 23:37 | Link #82 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
|
Quote:
I don't have a standard, all I care about is that it not be too late (and viability is not too late), but not so early as to drastically increase the number of women going to unregulated illegal facilities that might not be near as safe. And again, how do you keep getting back to me "trampling on women's rights"? I specifically said that I want to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, preferably to the point where fighting to ban abortions would border on pointless. Stop worrying about taking away women's rights to abortion and start worrying more about helping them to avoid situations where they would deem abortion necessary. For this to happen, men and women need to know and understand what to do and how (as well as what not to do and why), what can happen if they do things wrong, and enough to decide for themselves what things mean to them and what it means to them in regard to decisions that they may have to make down the road. |
|
2022-05-13, 07:03 | Link #83 | ||
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
|
Quote:
Quote:
That aside, you're saying a lot about "sex ed" and very little about contraception leading me to believe you're on the "abstinence only" side of things which just... doesn't fucking work. A lot of the same people who are against abortion are also against contraception, and if privacy protections are weakened that's what they're going after next. |
||
2022-05-13, 07:35 | Link #84 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
|
except US almost got bill where it's own proponent admited would allow up to 9 month abortions.
Also it's false that people who are against abortion are also always against contracetpions. There might be states where it's the case but these are obviously nuts and I don't think it can be passed there anyway.
__________________
Last edited by Tenzen12; 2022-05-13 at 07:47. |
2022-05-13, 08:17 | Link #86 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
|
Quote:
I've been saying a ton about contraception all the way through. How does "learn what to do and not to do and what can happen if you don't do it" come out to you as "don't think anything works, just don't have sex"? Especially since I started all of this talking about contraception? Again, you REALLY need to start looking at people who disagree with you seriously and not just immediately deciding they're monsters and looking for a way to make them as evil as you want them to be. It's really tiring having to constantly tell you that I never said what you want to think I said. What I want is for kids to learn what works and doesn't work, how well things do and don't work, and how to use them properly so that they get the maximum effect out of it, as I had said before if you'd bothered to pay any attention. Yes, I would say that people should also be encouraged not to jump into sex too quickly, and feel that encouraging this isn't mutually exclusive with a proper lesson on contraception, but teaching only abstinence does not work. |
|
2022-05-13, 09:30 | Link #87 | |||
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
|
Quote:
Quote:
You already kicked science to the curb when you wanted to talk about "souls" so we're still in the realm of you just wanting to change standards because you feel like it. Moreover, your entire argument is loaded with implicit bias against the mother and you keep trying to derail any discussion of her rights. Quote:
|
|||
2022-05-13, 09:50 | Link #88 |
One PUNCH!
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Just a reminder: this thread is for discussion of the Supreme Court decision, NOT the process itself.
There are other places to discuss the process and all the theological aspects related to it, just not here. Going forward, posts that don’t follow this will be deleted without warning. |
2022-05-13, 14:09 | Link #89 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
|
The failed bill I mentioned.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...bill/4132/text Last edited by ramlaen; 2022-05-13 at 14:21. |
2022-05-13, 15:53 | Link #90 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
|
Quote:
This's why I make walls of text. Even as long as my posts have been, I've been trying to be concise (yeah I know I suck at it), and I always end up cutting out or simplifying the wrong things, resulting in sounding "nebulous". And as I said, before it was deleted for going "off topic", I have NEVER encountered anyone who said such things as "punishment". I agree wholeheartedly that that is messed up, but I've never seen it personally. I don't know if you just got unlucky in who you met, or if you "engaged" people online or through other methods where you're far more likely to encounter the loudest and most insane of both sides, but just like a very large portion of people who're anti-abortion wouldn't forbid abortion in a rape case, there's tons of people out there on that side who'd be even more offended than you at such an idea. |
|
2022-05-13, 19:12 | Link #91 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
|
Quote:
I did read your first post BTW, and while I don't think I'd call you "sex positive" I think I get what you're advocating for as far as sex ed. But making condoms and birth control readily available is as if not more important than showing people how to use them, IMO. Birth control could be next though if Alito's twisted logic holds. As I've already said a lot of the same people who are against abortion are against birth control as well, and have fought against things like providing it to their employees in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby. |
|
2022-05-13, 21:19 | Link #92 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
|
Quote:
And I do agree that, along with teaching kids to use contraceptives, making them available is also equally important. In particular making them either sufficiently affordable or attainable by those in particularly low-income areas, as it shouldn't be that the rich can avoid pregnancy through means besides abstinence but the poor can't. I'll admit that I might not be what some people consider "sex positive". In my ideal world people would not have sex with just anyone or treat it as a part of finding out if you love them, but rather something you only do with someone you already truly love. Not a huge hurdle, but indeed a hurdle. But I'm also a realist, and I know that this is not going to happen, and even at that level of standard there's still plenty of room for issues that can lead to pregnancy before someone's ready or with someone that one ultimately will not want to remain with, and as such contraception availability and knowledge remains important even then. I sincerely hope that you're wrong about that last part though. As I've said the fact that so many anti-abortion politicians are equally anti-birth-control is something that I find very sad and very dangerous. It'll be an absolutely huge problem if contraceptions are made more difficult to obtain. |
|
2022-05-14, 00:43 | Link #93 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2022-05-14, 07:06 | Link #94 | |||
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2022-05-15, 01:14 | Link #95 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
|
I admit I can't find that video out. It was one of these republican interrogating proponent in senate kind of thing and it was part of some more general video of someone else. I would prefer if you didn't take for liar, especially as I agree with viability as option. Not one I would choose but I do think it's better then nothing. Well if you want think of me as right wing conspirator who want enslave women, even for cost of discreding myself as liar, I can't stop you.
I will postonk once it appears in my YouTube feet again, if someone else can provide that link I would be greatful.
__________________
|
2022-05-15, 03:16 | Link #96 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
|
Draft Overturning Roe v. Wade Quotes Infamous Witch Trial Judge With Long-Discredited Ideas on Rape
https://www.propublica.org/article/a...to-scotus-hale Quote:
__________________
|
|
2022-05-15, 15:03 | Link #99 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
|
Quote:
Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins I think sponsored a competing bill that was much more accommodating of state regulations but nobody signed onto it. Maybe that's the bill that allowed for "9 month abortions" or maybe you're both misinformed here. Edit: Here's Murkowski's PR about her bill: https://www.murkowski.senate.gov/pre...nthood-v-casey Last edited by stray; 2022-05-15 at 15:17. |
|
2022-05-15, 15:24 | Link #100 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
|
No, I just happen to know actual people, not just trolls on sites tailor-made for the most toxic of fools. As I said, do NOT judge normal people based on folks on the net or at demonstrations who profess to be of that group or political leaning. It's just not accurate. It's like going to Westboro Baptist and thinking that represents Christians as a whole. It's just not true, and it's frankly insulting to the numerous people who aren't anything like that to judge them based on such standards.
And fortunately, Alito is not in a position to actually create any kind of laws against contraceptives. Those laws would have to pass through a variety of other forums to be passed before they could possibly face his judgment about whether they're constitutional or not. |
|
|