Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by areyoubaka

​What really irked me this week was that it was Riko who comforted Chika, not You. You's been Chika's best friend since childhood, so therefore it would've made much more sense (imo) for her to comfort Chika at her lowest, rather than someone they've known for a month or two at most. While on the topic of Riko, it'd be great if the writers gave her more interactions with the rest of the group - her scene backstage with You last week was great for this reason.

Here's my take on this: You is used to being able to motivate Chika, and ironically lift Chika's spirits, by asking something very blunt and challenging and on-the-nose.

"So are you going to quit?" - You

"No I'm not going to quit!" - Chika

You see this sort of thing 2 or 3 times in Sunshine's first 3 episodes. And this has always worked for You and Chika. So You tries it again in this episode.

"Isn't it frustrating?" - You, "Are we giving up? Are we giving up being idols?" - You

So You is trying her usual approach to cheering up Chika. It's just not working this time, when in the past it would work. It's not working for two reasons:

1. Chika and You have probably never before faced a disappointment on this level. Chika probably because she's never thrown herself into anything this competitive before, and You because You's considerable talent at diving/swimming means that You has probably never lost this badly in that area of competition. So neither of the two has any experience with this level of defeat. So it simply hurts too much for Chika to do the usual quick bounce-back to You's short blunt challenging questions. And one reason why it hurts too much is...

2. This time, You is asking these questions for Chika's sake and You's own sake as well. And Chika is probably picking up on that. You wants to be reassured herself, whereas in the past, You asking these questions was purely to perk Chika back up. These types of questions are just too harsh for Chika this time around, partly since Chika definitely doesn't have it in her to seriously reassure You right now. Both girls are hurting.


Now, who has experienced defeat on this level before? Riko has. As was made clear back in Episode 2. So Riko's personal experience here means she's better able to reach out to Chika and comfort Chika given the specific circumstances here.

One could also argue that Chika's personality is just more similar to Riko's than it is to You's, but I think I'd like to see more of all three girls before taking a firm stance on that.

So anyway, yeah, that's my take on it. I still hope to see You shine more in the future, as I think her character has maybe been downplayed too much since Episode 4 or so. But all the same, I think what I wrote basically explains why Riko was able to comfort Chika here while You wasn't able to do so as effectively.

Originally Posted by novalysis

Just a bit of devils advocating here: why doesn't ARISE represent proper Sports anime rivals, while Saint Snow does? I do agree with your thesis - it seems the Sports genre inherent in Love Live's premise is going to be more heavily emphasized as opposed to the original.

The 2nd half of LL Season 2 decided to focus more on group bonding, sadness over group ending nearing (due to 3rd years graduating), and the main group's story at a very personal level. That's the defense I get whenever I've criticized the Snow Halation episode, anyway. A-RISE could have easily been a strong/conventional Sports Anime rival, but LL Season 2 decided to go in a different direction from the Nozomi episode on.

My biggest issue with LL Season 2 is that they never gave μ's vs. A-RISE the climax it deserved, as all the other pieces were there for a very good sports anime story. So that's one area where Sunshine can clearly outdo its predecessor.

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by areyoubaka

​What really irked me this week was that it was Riko who comforted Chika, not You. You's been Chika's best friend since childhood, so therefore it would've made much more sense (imo) for her to comfort Chika at her lowest, rather than someone they've known for a month or two at most.

As much as I want to agree that it would have made more sense for You to be the one to comfort Chika, objectively it doesn't make that much sense. There is no way that You could have woken up early enough just to take the first bus (if it even comes that early) and make it to Chika before Riko could. The thing is that Riko is Chika's direct neighbour so she is literally footsteps away from her.

Like Triple_R, let me offer my own interpretation of the You x Chika dynamic:

I suspect that her lack of screentime is completely intentional. This can be used to make a point that You feels out of place in Aquors. She is just someone who tags along. This is evidenced by her doubt that Chika wants to continue being a school idol, almost as she herself feels like it's not a thing for her. Hence why she asks if Chika wants to quit.

You sees herself as someone who has to support Chika find something in life that she can truly enjoy. In the flashback to their childhood in ep 1, You was very popular with everyone and she was shown to be a talented swimmer. Chika only looked at her on the sidelines like an unimportant mob who has nothing in comparison. You probably picked up on that so as her best friend she feels responsible, or maybe she feels like she owes Chika her support. But in return, while she now supports Chika's idol thing, she might view it as something that only Chika fully embraces but not herself.

And don't forget that You is still a part time club member. I could be wrong that You is still a part timer, they may have simply transitioned her full membership passively in during the episodes. But if you remember, back in episode 1 she explicitly told Chika that she will split her time 50/50 between the school idol club and her swimming club.

Thinking back on the OG (yes, sorry for referencing it myself now haha), Rin had one of the best OG episodes. I was absolutely awestruck when everyone supported Rin and she ended up wearing that beautiful dress, that episode made me see her in a new light. Quite frankly, if they gave just one proper episode focusing on You in a similar way, that could very well become the greatest SS episode for me. The only thing I am worried about is that they might not give us that episode/arc until season 2.

[novalysis]

I personally think that everything in You's character arc is building up to the scenes referred to in the Aquarium PV. For me, the deal-maker would be if one of the last scenes in the First PV, where 8 members of Aqours run up to a Mari walking away from the school and persuade her to join, indeed plays out at the end of the First Year arc; making Mari the last member to join. If that scene does pass, I think then the an arc adapting the events depicted in the Aquarium PV, centered on You would be the logical culmination.

Given how so much of Sunshine has imitated the structure of the first season of Love Live (which has exposed it to tremendous criticism); I think that in some ways, if the season ends with the issue of You being a third wheel that has been steadily building up over at least five episodes, that is Sunshine's equivalent of the Kotori situation. I have no doubt that if the season ends with You and the Aquarium scenario, that such an arc would automatically be criticized by many as an imitation of Kotori.

Even if, in sharp contrast to the Kotori arc in the OG arc, a crisis in You does not even put the club remotely in mortal danger; and ends with the production of Aquarium, the second music video Aqours produces and the one that actually helps them re-stabilize their footing after the Tokyo debacle; and unite the third years with the club decisively but by no means brings Aqours a qualifying berth in Love Live (it secures them in the top 100 though, and the opportunity to be invited to more promotion preliminary events like the Tokyo event) . And even more, still leaves the School is closing scenario utterly unresolved and an issue for the second season, unlike the fact that resolution to the school is closing scenario is about to arrive at this point in the original Love Live.

[R.LocK]

That would be a veeeery dumb criticism considering that this issue has been building up from the beginning of Sunshine compared to Kotori getting a letter out of nowhere.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Given how so much of Sunshine has imitated the structure of the first season of Love Live (which has exposed it to tremendous criticism); I think that in some ways, if the season ends with the issue of You being a third wheel that has been steadily building up over at least five episodes, that is Sunshine's equivalent of the Kotori situation. I have no doubt that if the season ends with You and the Aquarium scenario, that such an arc would automatically be criticized by many as an imitation of Kotori.

"You being a third wheel" is very different from Kotori's situation in LL Season 1. Kotori never felt like a third wheel, that wasn't Kotori's issue at all. Kotori's issue is that she had a chance to pursue a personal dream in another country, which would tear her away from her friends that she felt very close to.

If You was to decide to leave for another country in the hopes of improving her standing as a diver/swimmer, that would be very similar to the Kotori situation. But if this is primarily/solely about You feeling like Riko is taking her place in Chika's life, then that's very different from the Kotori situation. Kotori never felt like someone was taking her place in Honoka's life - Quite the contrary, LL Season 1 Episode 9 strongly reaffirmed the closeness of the three 2nd years.

Sunshine essentially having a friendship/love triangle would in fact be a very different direction for this series. I can't recall anything quite like it in the OG.

Speaking personally, I'd only go with a "copycat" criticism against a You drama arc if it went out of its way to closely mirror the Kotori arc of LL Season 1. And this would involve either You deciding to leave to go far away, or certain scenes seeming like Chika/You were literally acting out LL Season 1 scenes. I honestly very much doubt either of that happens.

This isn't to say I'd necessarily love a You drama arc - Execution is important as always, of course - but the basic idea of it is perfectly fine with me. In fact, I think it has good potential and You's character would probably benefit from it.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

"You being a third wheel" is very different from Kotori's situation in LL Season 1. Kotori never felt like a third wheel, that wasn't Kotori's issue at all. Kotori's issue is that she had a chance to pursue a personal dream in another country, which would tear her away from her friends that she felt very close to.

I completely agree with you on that particular point. Making the claim that any You drama arc is meant to be a repeat of the Kotori arc is a rather superficial stance to take, even if like the Kotori arc, a You-Aquarium arc is Sunshine's end-season post third year recruitment scenario.

If You was to decide to leave for another country in the hopes of improving her standing as a diver/swimmer, that would be very similar to the Kotori situation. But if this is primarily/solely about You feeling like Riko is taking her place in Chika's life, then that's very different from the Kotori situation. Kotori never felt like someone was taking her place in Honoka's life - Quite the contrary, LL Season 1 Episode 9 strongly reaffirmed the closeness of the three 2nd years.

A potentially fun way to play with a You is leaving scenario, would be for the stakes to be as high as basically being a potential Olympic Swimmer/Diver that has a good chance of representing Japan in the future. Followed by the subversion that it doesn't immediately impact whether or not You remains with Aqours, because this is a University Scholarship being offered to You in advance after High School and hence out of the immediate range of Sunshine. You is not being asked to choose between Aqours and being an Olympic Swimmer here.

What this offer does however, is to make You realize that the end of her childhood entails moving out from Chika, but also use this realization to examine the state of her childhood friendship and realize that this process already seems to be happening, with just how close Chika is getting with Riko and how Riko is replacing You in Chika's life right now.

Which immediately leads to a personal crisis of what she should be doing in relation to Aqours, and how much commitment she should make to the club she helped co-found. Now that it is up and running, does she need to remain in Aqours given that she joined to support Chika? That might be the trigger point for the Aquarium scenario, using the Childhood Friend is leaving scenario differently from the original series but that's just one speculation

Sunshine essentially having a friendship/love triangle would in fact be a very different direction for this series. I can't recall anything quite like it in the OG.

I agree. I think that while the Riko recruitment episode in Episode 2 does seem to partly echo the Maki arc, the impact of that particular incident is extremely different, because of the whole idea of the new kid seemingly replacing a member of a childhood duo. It will be entirely plausible for Sunshine to turn around and say - look, a new person doesn't simply enter into the confidence of one member of a pre-existing childhood pair of friends without some kind of resolution. Duos do not magically become Trios.

Speaking of Trios, I wouldn't be surprised if any You arc is in part also a Kanan redemption arc in the eyes of the audience, and a highlighting that the Kanan-You-Chika trio has a utterly different dynamic from Kotori-Umi-Honoka. Kanan might well act as any crucial mediator for the issue of You getting sidelined in favor of Riko in Chika's life.

Again, just more speculation of what a You/Aquarium arc might entail, if it's LLSS end season scenario.

Speaking personally, I'd only go with a "copycat" criticism against a You drama arc if it went out of its way to closely mirror the Kotori arc of LL Season 1. And this would involve either You deciding to leave to go far away, or certain scenes seeming like Chika/You were literally acting out LL Season 1 scenes. I honestly very much doubt either of that happens.

Well, the pessimist would point to all the Muse referencing in the first 7 episodes as evidence for the plausibility that Sunshine will go out of it's way to mirror the Kotori arc. Personally, I think they really, really would have to go out of their way to mirror the Kotori arc, and given that the entire set-up of the Trio and Riko is so different from the character dynamics of the original series, and the fact that LLSS excels very much at logical character development much like it's predecessor, I don't think it will mirror the Kotori arc.

The risk of course, is that they make the stakes too high - for example, it's either You leaves now, or loses her chance of becoming an Olympiad in favor of staying and remaining in Aqours. That will damage the plausibility to any You stays in Aqours resolution. But I think I have hopefully managed to illustrate how even invoking You leaves does not have to result in You leaving NOW, as in within the time-frame of Aqours as a group; and it's one way to run You leaves without following the Kotori arc, even if it pays homage to the arc as a source of inspiration. In the same way, I'm very certain that the Third Year arc is inspired by Nico's backstory of failing as an idol, but this time is tightly connected to the formation of the group as a whole, and used as a point to illustrate the Post-Muse School Idol landscape; rather than a one episode affair that only resurrects itself in Nico's second season episode but otherwise is unconnected to the bigger plot.

This isn't to say I'd necessarily love a You drama arc - Execution is important as always, of course - but the basic idea of it is perfectly fine with me. In fact, I think it has good potential and You's character would probably benefit from it.

Hopefully, if a You Drama/Aquarium arc is run as the end season scenario (and I think there are too many hints building up in the background for it not to be run) , the execution will give the season an excellent send-off. I am cautiously optimistic that the writers can do it, Episode 8 does give me reason for this optimism.

You is the big glaring exception right now in Aqours, since Chika in some ways offered Aqours as a means to something each member in Aqours really wants (Riko for Music, Ruby for passion, Hanamaru for Agency, Yohane for acceptance). And if this theme continues for the Third Years (Mari to re-live once more the intense bonding experience she so much treasures from her time as a School Idol, Dia to regain her lost passion, Kanan, I presume, to truly pursue her wishes to protect her juniors, but I'd wait for Episode 9 to ascertain Kanan's full intentions) ; then You sticks out as a sore thumb.

Again this is all speculation of course, and I will be interested in knowing what other alternate end-season scenarios might be run. To me, the leading candidate for the Post-Third Year arc, is a You arc, and it would cap off what I see as the true essence of Sunshine this season (assuming multiple seasons) - explaining why and how each and every girl came to be committed to the Aqours project.

There probably isn't time this season to explore how Aqours goes beyond imitating Muse to being it's own fresh entity which the anime does acknowledge with Saint Snow criticisms in Episode 8, and which the writers in my view, have implicitly promised the audience that this issue would be redressed down the line, and I think this is going to be a second season issue. I personally think the answer to that issue, might be for Aqours to realize Muse tightly conformed to a particular genre of music, and instead, Aqours covers a wider range of genres, which opens up way more musical possibilities for them to make themselves fresh.

I wouldn't be surprised if the issue of Aqours being it's own entity rather than a Muse ripoff is where Mari's love for Industrial metal comes in - that Aqours does have the personnel capable of participating in not just the traditional Muse lighter, standard idol ballads that so far, Aqours have conformed to; but also to perform in the Pseudo-Kawaii Metal (Babymetal) and Hard Rock styles that I think Saint Snow is a hint has begun to be a major competitive force. I would even say that Guilty Kiss songs (Strawberry Trapper and Guilty Kiss, Guilty Knight) were meant as a feeler to see how accepting the audience would be if Aqours was to be more musically adventurous and make forays towards the direction of non-traditional genres in the idol industry, such as Electronica and Metal. And that fact that Guilty Kiss is the best performing sub-unit right now probably means that the next Aqours songs post-first season might be more diverse - the traditional genres are still covered, but there are full Aqours pieces that go very hard into Rock.

But this is longer term speculation for the franchise direction that I think is more appropriate to explore further, for a Sunshine speculation thread.

[Darthtabby]

I realize the staff would never have the guts to actually do this given how much this show worships U's, but I think it would have been really effective if Dia had said something to the effect of "Even U's would probably have trouble competing today."

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I realize the staff would never have the guts to actually do this given how much this show worships U's, but I think it would have been really effective if Dia had said something to the effect of "Even U's would probably have trouble competing today."

Ok, this line of thinking is really getting overplayed a lot.

The overall depth of competition is certainly greater now than it was during the first 2 Love Live competitions, but good grief, we're talking a few years.

Plus, I don't see anything lacking in μ's best performances, including in technical quality areas (Snow Halation, for example, is excellent across the board). μ's were great in their time, and they'd still be great in Aqours' time if μ's were still all teenagers.

But here's an important factor with school idol performances - You have to put your own heart and passion and personality into it. You have to have your own story to tell. That adds some "Oomph!" to the performances, and makes them resonate more.

Imitators usually pale compared to the original because the original has that added personal spark to it. Just think of Elvis Presley impersonators and the original real deal. While there's a lot of really good Elvis impersonators out there, there's nothing quite like the King of Rock 'N Roll himself.

So yes, Aqours should try to do their own thing.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I realize the staff would never have the guts to actually do this given how much this show worships U's, but I think it would have been really effective if Dia had said something to the effect of "Even U's would probably have trouble competing today."

I think that was very much implied through Dia's explanation: Muse opened the floodgates and everyone else stepped up. Its not crazy to assume that, in this new, more competitive enviroment, that same level will not have the exact same effect. I'm not saying full fledged, drama free Muse would get destroyed like Chika and co. did, mind you, but they might not reach the top or at least legend status. Hell, the blatant new A-rise still has ways to go, I think that sends a clear message.

@TripleR Now you got me thinking, you believe Aqours is going to get its own slogan episode eventually?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

I think that was very much implied through Dia's explanation: Muse opened the floodgates and everyone else stepped up. Its not crazy to assume that, in this new, more competitive enviroment, that same level will not have the exact same effect. I'm not saying full fledged, drama free Muse would get destroyed like Chika and co. did, mind you, but they might not reach the top or at least legend status.

I think μ's would still reach the top and achieve legend status. μ's top performances were excellent, very beautiful, and I don't see any real weaknesses in them. It probably would have been harder for them to do it in Aqours' time, but I think they would have done it.

One of the key reasons for my position here - People are still talking a lot about μ's and A-RISE, five or more years after they left the school idol scene, with current groups not even getting a mention until Saint Snow arrived. That speaks to lasting greatness, even compared to the current top stars.

That's to take nothing away from Aqours. Yes, Aqours is facing a tougher road to greatness than μ's did. μ's had one major obstacle - A-RISE. Aqours may well have multiple major obstacles.

So when it comes to school idol competitions, Aqours may well surpass μ's.

@TripleR Now you got me thinking, you believe Aqours is going to get its own slogan episode eventually?

Probably, yes.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The overall depth of competition is certainly greater now than it was during the first 2 Love Live competitions, but good grief, we're talking a few years.

Plus, I don't see anything lacking in μ's best performances, including in technical quality areas (Snow Halation, for example, is excellent across the board). μ's were great in their time, and they'd still be great in Aqours' time if μ's were still all teenagers.

But here's an important factor with school idol performances - You have to put your own heart and passion and personality into it. You have to have your own story to tell. That adds some "Oomph!" to the performances, and makes them resonate more.

Imitators usually pale compared to the original because the original has that added personal spark to it. Just think of Elvis Presley impersonators and the original real deal. While there's a lot of really good Elvis impersonators out there, there's nothing quite like the King of Rock 'N Roll himself.

If the number of competitors balloons tenfold, I can image the bar being raised considerably in just a very short timeframe.

Did you see any flaws in Saint Snow's performance? It doesn't strike me as an imitation of someone else's performance, and it packed plenty of "oomph" -in fact I'd say its sheer intensity makes is rather unique among Love Live performances. Yet they placed ninth in what appears to be a relatively minor competition.

Don't take this as a knock on U's. (Well okay, you can maybe take it as a knock against Sunshine's tendency to constantly put U's on a pedestal. ) I'm reminded of a criticism someone on another forum leveled against the modern Olympics. He noted that nowadays, the performances of past Olympians are being regularly equalled, but that those past Olympians had lives outside the Olympics.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Did you see any flaws in Saint Snow's performance?

Not in their song or their costumes. Their dancing is fine, but has room for more quickness and difficulty and energy. I'd put A-RISE's Shocking Party and μ's No Brand Girls ahead of Saint Snow's performance in this episode when it comes to the dancing quality of the performance. Other areas will have viewer subjectivity come into play once a certain threshold is reached.

At the very top, subjectivity is highly important. Different audiences, different music genre preferences, different costume preferences can all play a big role. I don't doubt that μ's style would eventually seem dated and no longer viable. Would that happen in just 5 years? Well, that would depend on the number of other groups copying them. It is possible that μ's style is viewed as overused and an uninspired choice by Aqours time (sort of like how many anime fans feel about isekai stories ), and audiences might be tired of it, which would be a good reason not to copy them if you're going competitive.

That being said, Kotori is a tremendously talented costume-maker, and Maki is very talented at composing music. If μ's had to adapt, I think they could. Would it be harder? Definitely. But we shouldn't underestimate the considerable talent within μ's - A-RISE made that clear in Season 2 Episode 3.

In some ways, this can make Aqours journey more dramatic and impressive. Does You have the same talent for designing costumes as Kotori does? Is Riko as good at music as Maki is? Is anybody in Aqours the dancer that Eli is? Aqours has a harsher starting point, and is more of an underdog in my view. So the potential is there for a very strong underdog "rags-to-riches" story with Aqours.

[Kakurin]

Now this was a good episode. Somewhat predictable - I thought since last week that they either might fail the same way as Dia and co. or would finish dead last - but nevertheless well-executed. The part with the 0 votes was a bit overplayed, but they really wanted to represent the message with starting from zero (to hero). The Ruby/Dia dynamic was done very nicely, Dia's gained sympathy points with me, and Chika's frustration portrayed well too.

Having said that, I'm a bit tired of the zero-to-number-one story, I'd absolutely applaud the writers if they had the guts to write a compelling story about a heated competition for the top-spot but not have Aqours finish on top. Won't happen, but I'd still love to see a story like that. A lot of people work their butts off, a lot of people contend for the top spot, but in the end only one ends up on top, those second/third/fourth placed ones deserve a story too.

Originally Posted by Seihai

Song quality can only be so objective, don't you think? You judge it like there are different power levels a la DBZ

You can absolutely judge song quality from a technical standpoint. Like with many other things though you need to be familiar with the details. For example, I received some degree of vocal training in classical music in my youth so I have a solid ear for vocals and thus when I really focus on it I can deconstruct a vocal performance in a way that people without this background wouldn't even notice. Well, usually though I shut off that part of my brain though when listening to pop music, it's a different standard after all.

Though sometimes it becomes rather hard, it's really the big reason why I just couldn't get along with Kotori's singing in the original series. The way Uchida Aya squeezed her voice to fit Kotori was just too obvious and the effects of the loss of volume and softness just too stark. This is not to say that you can't produce a high-quality voice with such kind of manipulation but you need a certain measure of training (just look up the stuff professional countertenors can produce ).

[SleepingTerror]

Regarding when You will get her breakthrough episode, I almost suspect it will be the OVA. It's a little farfetched, but take a look at these cd covers:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

There's a resemblance, and Music S.T.A.R.T. was the OVA theme. Of course, plot wise, this makes absolutely no sense. But I can dream

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

The way Uchida Aya squeezed her voice to fit Kotori was just too obvious and the effects of the loss of volume and softness just too stark.

Isn't this also subjective? "too obvious" "too stark"
Yes you can use a technical standpoint to justify why Kotori sounds bad, but I actually love her voice. No amount of music study can change that.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

Isn't this also objective? "too obvious" "too stark"
Yes you can use a technical standpoint to justify why Kotori sounds bad, but I actually love her voice. No amount of music study can change that.

You apparently have gotten neither the original post, nor my comment on that. It's possible to produce a song that subjectively sounds lovely, but from a point of technical scrutiny is fairly rough. For example by using a very simple melody, letting the seiyū hold back their voices and so on, so that when you make a side-by-side comparison after the end of the series you can say "hey, they've come a long way".

As for the Kotori voice thing, I never said my impression is objective and that you can't like it. The issue is just that for me with my different angle it's hard to look past the technical stuff when it's as obvious as that with the flatness of the sound. When Uchida Aya uses a more natural voice in singing the effect is quite different.

[Liddo-kun]

Watched episode 8:

Wow, the competition is intense. Even the serious Saint Snow failed to get to top 8. Expectations from fans must have levelled up a lot after Muse and A-Rise made school idols even more popular.

Hmm... so that's what happened to the third years. They cannot even sing when they got to Tokyo.

Oh, and Shitake did not chase Riko this time. Well, they can't allow that kind of comedy to ruin the sad mood of this ep.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

You apparently have gotten neither the original post, nor my comment on that. It's possible to produce a song that subjectively sounds lovely, but from a point of technical scrutiny is fairly rough. For example by using a very simple melody, letting the seiyū hold back their voices and so on, so that when you make a side-by-side comparison after the end of the series you can say "hey, they've come a long way".

It's kind of hard to get your comment when you keep using terms like "fairly rough" to describe an objective point.
Thank you for the explanation, but I'll stick to subjectivity.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Wow, the competition is intense. Even the serious Saint Snow failed to get to top 8.

It would be bad if they did make it to the top, since their performance was good, but it doesn't impress you after seeing how good A-Rise was. They had the same backdrop as A-Rise, but the camera composition, sleek body movement, and custom was lacking badly. A-Rise was very much polished with their constant moving, even though it wasn't in sync, they still moved as a group. It's just soo many small details and the camera tilting, panning, and lights work well with their dark clothing and bright pink outline was much more professional on A-Rise.

[Ulin]

Good episode for me. I mean, I really felt I was watching a different show even if there were some references.

A good wake up call for the girls, and we even got like... 5 or 10 seconds of Kanan! I'm finding pretty difficult to find a BG so far, although if I were You I would be pretty pissed when realising that my best friend has completely replaced me with the new girl in town (even when she's as adorable as Riko is), but it's good to see that she's is who understands Chika the best

[Pen3]

Obviously Riko is best grill.