2009-06-15, 13:01 | Link #81 | |||
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2009-06-15, 13:14 | Link #82 | |
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Well, yes, i do believe that KallenxLelouch and ShirleyxLelouch within the show, are pretty close. The two things that do distinguish them in my eyes, is how Lelouch kept Kallen out of ZR {along with all the materials supporting the question of "why"} and how Lelouch's feelings towards Shirley, were mixed with liking and guilt. Had Shirley been alive, ShirleyxLelouch might have been shot down or confirmed officially. But, we go with the events in the show, and personally, KallenxLelouch got a LOT, and i mean a whole lot stuff to discuss in R2 {and after}, that do raise more stuff to talk about, compared to the other couples. And this has nothing to do with preference more/less. I am just stating facts about materials that everyone did read/saw and events, that i believe everyone can recognize as well. |
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2009-06-15, 13:48 | Link #83 | |||
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Last edited by Nobodyman9; 2009-06-15 at 14:31. |
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2009-06-15, 14:16 | Link #84 | ||
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With Kallen, it is different. They did develop a relationship in R2 especially, with no lies or anything, since she did know his ID. I am not saying, that Shirley was just a friend to him, but to me, it seemed that he did like Shirley as a girl and loved her as a friend, while with Kallen, probably loved her in both ways. //and do not bet a lot about me btw Quote:
But, in R2, and add all the materials and stuff, she is {a bit} behind Kallen i believe. Even if you take them statistically, and not about how interpretations are being raised. I mean, see it like this: Would staff really bomb everyone with "ah, not really-romantic"-stuff about Kallen x Lelouch again and again, if there was not actually something there? Beats the purpose of it. |
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2009-06-15, 14:42 | Link #85 | ||
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2009-06-15, 14:58 | Link #86 | ||
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He did try to keep her away, but on a general thesis, he never really noticed her, up until she screwed her life. Shirley was important for Lelouch, that was made clear in Stage 14, by his own words. But, by the time Lelouch chose Zero-path, then this couple was pretty much out. The only plausible-"options" were C.C and Kallen. We got our reply about C.C and we got a semi-reply about Kallen. Someone seemed to forget about a certain powerful gumline. Quote:
It is, role-delivery. It is not that it is Shirley's fault or anything, lol. Staff had certain roles in mind, simple. Some were meant to be a lot, and some others, were meant to be a lot and something more. |
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2009-06-15, 15:13 | Link #87 | ||
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And about the gumline. They omitted it, and they omitted it for a reason. They certainly wouldn't have left that out if it was vital to the story or her character. How did we come across that anyway? Quote:
Now keep in mind, I do like how Lelouch and Shirley's relationship developed and I do believe they could have had something, but I also find it hard to accept that idea that Shirlulu was destined to fail just because she was a secondary character. I don't think the success of a romance or pairing should fail because of something like that. |
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2009-06-15, 15:18 | Link #88 | |
Shameless Fangirl
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I don't see how Lelouch becoming Zero changed anything in that respect. It's not like he needs to have had one true love in the show. There was no happily ever after for him from the start, so as far as I'm concerned, Kallen and C.C. were not any more of a "plausible option" than Shirley was.
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2009-06-15, 15:21 | Link #89 | |
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- Incorrect. It was Kallen's most important line, how could it not be vital to the story? All the other lines, were featured, so having this one missing out, is fishy. Look for other reasons, other than "not being important" because, the fact, that it was her most important line, tied to Lelouch {safe to say, since everyone's else was towards him mostly} and in the last turn/s, is important. //we were talking about secondary stuff, i just mentioned it, no one forbids me, no? - I do believe, that Zero path, "ruined" Shirlulu. Obviously Lelouch believed that too, this is why he wanted to keep her away. We did see though, that when Lelouch and Shirley interacted in school, they had this romantic-sparkly-vibe {Turn 12} So yes, ultimately, the way i see the events, is that Lelouch/Shirley was probably gonna happen, but was finalized when Stage 14 ended. |
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2009-06-15, 15:28 | Link #90 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Actually, I think the invasion of Japan ruined Lelouch's love life as a whole. And him being sent there in the first place.
Because just like some people might have felt Shirlulu wouldn't happen after the Mao incident, I felt no pairing at all would happen right from the very start (or, well, as soon as I had gotten a fair impression of the kind of person Lelouch was). Not that I even stopped to think much about that. I just never even considered Lelouch falling madly in love and "getting together" with someone - I always expected that there would be no clear outcome, and that's exactly what happened. I also agree with Nobodyman. If the Zero thing ruined Shirlulu, then ZR ruined Kalulu. But... in the end, it all comes back to Lelouch's messed up childhood if we follow that line.
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2009-06-15, 15:31 | Link #91 | |
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2009-06-15, 15:36 | Link #92 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Sure, there is the side material. But I never thought it was necessary in Shirley's case - the anime said it all. The staff couldn't have added anything except of putting an "I know he loved me!" into the poem and that just... wouldn't have fit in Shirley's case. At all. She had other things on her mind when they "parted". Also, it would have ruined the tragedy somewhat. I mean... it just wouldn't have fit there. But maybe that's just me. xD
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2009-06-15, 15:39 | Link #93 | |
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Please, there is not way that someone can say "not important" when the staff itself said, that these lines are the most important for the characters. |
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2009-06-15, 15:43 | Link #94 | |
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Hmm, actually having thought about it from your POV, I can see how you would submit this as possible evidence. So yes, maybe this indicates that, in the authors' minds, maybe they were thinking about doing something with Lelouch/Kallen, but I guess we'll never know for sure since it was never made and we don't know the context in which it would have been used. I more or less agree with the other stuff you said. |
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2009-06-15, 15:44 | Link #95 | |
Shameless Fangirl
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And I don't buy this whole "the staff didn't do this and that because the other shippers would have lynched them" stuff. They liked playing with the almost-but-not-quite romance, and they wouldn't have shot down't Cluclu if that's what they're so worried about. Yes, the mutual kiss is there. But it just doesn't make Shirlulu any less "canon".
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2009-06-15, 15:47 | Link #96 | |
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And that line of Lelouch there, in the extended previews, which were the closest to his own truth, made me think that yes, Kallen is way more important to him than a friend. |
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2009-06-15, 15:51 | Link #97 | |
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Well, I better skedaddle. I don't want this to get too messy. |
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2009-06-15, 15:52 | Link #98 |
Um-Shmum
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all we know is that kallen's most importent line was removed for SOME reason
we dont know WHY it was removed, but we know that it was her MOST IMPORTENT LINE and i think removing it DID damage the plot quite a bit, at least that part of it that concerend kallen personally i think that kallen's character was handled rather poorly during the entire last arc in general we got more insight into shnizel, ougi and even GINO's mind set during that arc then we did about kallen's would it have killed them to axe that whole retarded kallen gino talk in ep 23 and give KALLEN a few seconds to say something that better explains her motives for fighting against lelouch the fact that they DIDNT stress out her reasons, and the fact that she turned against lelouch right after he seemed to reject her, made her come off as a bitchy woman scorned more then anything else which in turn contributed to much of the hate that rose against her during the last arc, when in effect that was nothing wrong about her actions what so ever
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2009-06-15, 15:55 | Link #99 | |
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What? Excuse me? Lelouch stated that on his own, how is it my interpretation? Lelouch refers frequently in Kallen, in the R2 previews, that is something that is not up for question. It is canon fact. And i did mention it, to show that a lot of things coming from Lelouch towards Kallen, it is not only "her being all over him." |
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2009-06-15, 15:57 | Link #100 | |
Shameless Fangirl
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The "pillars of existence thing" has been discussed so many times now that I won't even bother anymore. I have heard many interpretations, some awesome, some understandable and some quite strange. In the end, I go with what the staff deigned to put in the anime, what they added to underline some things and what they never said for some reason or another. In the end, I end up with what might actually be my favourite pairing: The ambiguous. It's so much fun to use in fanwork.
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